Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

On Responsibility

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • On Responsibility

    a scenario:
    A father leaves his children in the care of a known pedophile.

    The pedophile molests the children.

    I believe that everybody will agree that the pedophile is responsible for the crime of molestation.

    Does the father bear any responsibility for putting the children at risk?




    shoot - can't set it up as a poll

    weigh in!

  • #2
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    a scenario:
    A father leaves his children in the care of a known pedophile.

    The pedophile molests the children.

    I believe that everybody will agree that the pedophile is responsible for the crime of molestation.

    Does the father bear any responsibility for putting the children at risk?




    shoot - can't set it up as a poll

    weigh in!
    Yes he does. And it has to be the crime of stupidity, because I'd like to believe no father would be that stupid or naïve.

    Comment


    • #3
      a second scenario:


      At a bank, the manager and tellers spend the day drinking and waving big fistfuls of cash at the poor people walking by.

      They drink themselves into unconsciousness with the bank doors wide open and bundles of cash lying about.

      People come in and steal the cash.

      I believe that everybody will agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft.

      Do the bank manager and tellers bear any responsibility for their actions?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ok doser View Post
        a second scenario:


        At a bank, the manager and tellers spend the day drinking and waving big fistfuls of cash at the poor people walking by.

        They drink themselves into unconsciousness with the bank doors wide open and bundles of cash lying about.

        People come in and steal the cash.

        I believe that everybody will agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft.

        Do the bank manager and tellers bear any responsibility for their actions?

        Comment


        • #5
          a third scenario:


          Mary, a college sophomore, decides to smoke some dope in her dorm room
          Spoiler


          Mary then goes out alone to a club, starts drinking and meets up with some nice fellows who offer her some drugs
          Spoiler


          Mary drinks a lot!
          Spoiler


          Mary dances in her underwear!
          Spoiler


          Mary doesn't remember a lot of the night.

          Spoiler


          Mary wakes up the next morning.

          Spoiler


          Mary realizes that her purse and all her money are missing and that she's been raped.

          I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape.


          Does Mary bear any responsibility for the actions that she chose to take that put her at risk?






          Last edited by ok doser; November 13th, 2015, 12:58 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Responsibility implies the existence of an authority that can hold one into account.

            Morally, all are responsible to God for all that they do, think, or say. The accountability to God is not requiring one possesses any ability to obey, too. Accountability is the key to responsibility. No one is responsible if there is no higher authority that can hold them into account.

            Abilities, per se, are real or perceived mitigating issues that may or may not be taken into account by the one holding another responsible as to guilt or innocence. In other words, one's abilities do not escape the fact that one can be held accountable.

            As to the civil magistrate's rule, one given the power of the sword, over society, accountability arises from matters of laws established, and violations of the same, making one who traverses these laws negatively, accountable before the bar of justice established by the civil magistrate.

            In all circumstances as the examples in this thread dealing with the crimes upon another and that victim's culpability, responsibility of all parties, criminal and victim alike, is always attached from God's perspective, but not necessarily always to the rules of the civil magistrate.

            Where local rules exist, responsibility of a victim of a crime is not implied until it can be shown otherwise. Instead the mens rea (awareness of the fact that the conduct is criminal) of the accused and the actus reus (the act itself) are all that is required.

            Even in cases where there is no mens rea required (no criminal intent), the civil magistrate has established laws of Strict Liability, where all that is required under such statutes is that the act itself is voluntary, since involuntary acts are not criminal.

            The criminal in these cases cannot hope to escape being held guilty (responsible) due to the behavior of another. It is only when guilt is assigned, that the criminal can raise possible mitigating circumstances, e.g., the recklessness of another's behavior, in hopes of reducing the sentence to come.

            AMR
            Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



            Do you confess?
            Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
            AMR's Randomata Blog
            Learn Reformed Doctrine
            I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
            Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
            Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
            The best TOL Social Group: here.
            If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
            Why?


            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ok doser View Post
              shoot - can't set it up as a poll
              Buy a subscription during the upcoming annual Back Friday-Cyber Monday sale.
              Learn to read what is written.

              _____
              The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
              ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

              Comment


              • #8

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                  Yes he does. And it has to be the crime of stupidity, because I'd like to believe no father would be that stupid or naïve.
                  To knowingly place any child in danger is a CRIME in any state. The father AND the Pedo are both guilty of statutory criminal behavior.

                  The father is NOT the victim as per the rapist/raped scenario being furthered.

                  Seriously flawed metaphor.

                  The CHILD/VICTIM remains innocent.


                  Elect a clown and you get a circus!
                  if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    Elect a clown and you get a circus!
                    if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit if Trump had half a wit he would be a half wit

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Foxfire View Post
                      To knowingly place any child in danger is a CRIME in any state. The father AND the Pedo are both guilty of statutory criminal behavior.

                      The father is NOT the victim as per the rapist/raped scenario being furthered.

                      Seriously flawed metaphor.

                      The CHILD/VICTIM remains innocent.
                      I have always said children are victims. Therefore, your straw man is destined for the compost pile.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                        Therefore, your straw man is destined for the compost pile.
                        Paul said the same thing only not as sugar coated regarding good works when people stand before God in judgment.

                        Sorry, you know I can't help myself.
                        Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                        Titus 1

                        For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                        Ephesians 5

                        11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                          a third scenario:


                          Mary, a college sophomore, decides to smoke some dope in her dorm room
                          Spoiler


                          Mary then goes out alone to a club, starts drinking and meets up with some nice fellows who offer her some drugs
                          Spoiler


                          Mary drinks a lot!
                          Spoiler


                          Mary dances in her underwear!
                          Spoiler


                          Mary doesn't remember a lot of the night.

                          Spoiler


                          Mary wakes up the next morning.

                          Spoiler


                          Mary realizes that her purse and all her money are missing and that she's been raped.

                          I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape.


                          Does Mary bear any responsibility for the actions that she chose to take that put her at risk?





                          Wait, if mary doesn't remember a lot of the night and was dancing around in her undies while stoned out of her mind, how does mary determine shes been raped?
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So back up just a second. Are women responsible for being raped? That other thread got so cluttered I never could make heads or tails
                            "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                            Terence Mc Lean

                            [most will be very surprised]


                            Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                            By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                              a scenario:
                              A father leaves his children in the care of a known pedophile.

                              The pedophile molests the children.

                              I believe that everybody will agree that the pedophile is responsible for the crime of molestation.

                              Does the father bear any responsibility for putting the children at risk?
                              Terrible analogy, as the father isn't the victim here, the children are (and yes, the father is responsible for the molestation as well).




                              Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                              a second scenario:


                              At a bank, the manager and tellers spend the day drinking and waving big fistfuls of cash at the poor people walking by.

                              They drink themselves into unconsciousness with the bank doors wide open and bundles of cash lying about.

                              People come in and steal the cash.

                              I believe that everybody will agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft.

                              Do the bank manager and tellers bear any responsibility for their actions?
                              "Thou Shalt Not Steal" is a moral absolute. Thou shalt not be stupid isn't. If you're giving some of the blame to the victim, then you're downplaying God's moral absolute on stealing.

                              Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                              a third scenario:


                              Mary, a college sophomore, decides to smoke some dope in her dorm room
                              Spoiler


                              Mary then goes out alone to a club, starts drinking and meets up with some nice fellows who offer her some drugs
                              Spoiler


                              Mary drinks a lot!
                              Spoiler


                              Mary dances in her underwear!
                              Spoiler


                              Mary doesn't remember a lot of the night.

                              Spoiler


                              Mary wakes up the next morning.

                              Spoiler


                              Mary realizes that her purse and all her money are missing and that she's been raped.

                              I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape.


                              Does Mary bear any responsibility for the actions that she chose to take that put her at risk?

                              "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" (i.e. out of wedlock sex) is a moral absolute. Again, if you're giving some of the blame to the victim because she didn't use good judgment, then you're downplaying God's moral absolute on out of wedlock sex.
                              The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
                              http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
                              http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X