toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?

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zoo22

Well-known member
Are you asserting that Muslims in the middle-east are extremist and unlike American Muslims??

No. I'm asserting that Muslims in the Middle East who don't want or allow Churches to be built are not the same as the American Muslims building this community center/mosque, and are not the same as the vast majority of Muslim US citizens.

The "well they don't allow Churches" comparison doesn't work for me.

I don't think that there's any comparison that really fits. To me, it's a very particular and unique situation.
 

Nathon Detroit

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No. I'm asserting that Muslims in the Middle East who don't want or allow Churches to be built are not the same as the American Muslims building this community center/mosque, and are not the same as the vast majority of Muslim US citizens.

The "well they don't allow Churches" comparison doesn't work for me.

I don't think that there's any comparison that really fits. To me, it's a very particular and unique situation.
Well... it's a fact. :idunno:

You can't build Christian churches in most Muslim countries. You can however build churches of any type wherever you want here in America (for the most part).

So yes... we American's offer a more free country, and for that we can all cheer!

However....

The point is.... the Muslims who want to build this church should determine that this isn't a wise choice based the sensitivity surrounding the ground zero area. The very fact that they seem to be ignoring the mass of opposition and dividing this country leaves me to believe their intentions might be not exactly "snow white".
 

Nick_A

New member
And that my friend is your problem.

This IS an emotional issue. This isn't a legal battle... it's an emotional one.

This entire debate isn't about rights.... yet about tact, sensitivity, and respect.

Your setting aside your emotion on this issue is the very reason you are wrong.

But there are the egoistic emotions that demand rights and the more spiritual emotions that make us aware of obligations from putting ourselves into the shoes of another.

The political mosque is a demand for "rights." It is an obvious attempt at "victory" and the expression of the emotion of victory. A real Sufi would be aware of human obligations towards others and would not want a mosque at ground zero. For them, victory isn't the issue. The human condition is.
 

Lighthouse

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I think we should strike a deal with the Muslims.

We will let you build your Mosque near ground zero if we can build a Christian church in Mecca. :rotfl:
I'd like to make an addendum; to hang Bib Laden [if we ever find him] at Ground Zero, with the best view being the Mosque, so they can watch him die.
 

Nathon Detroit

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Hey zoo22....

Can I ask....

All things considered... do you think building this high-rise Mosque 600 feet from ground zero is a wise decision?
 

Ktoyou

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But there are the egoistic emotions that demand rights and the more spiritual emotions that make us aware of obligations from putting ourselves into the shoes of another.

The political mosque is a demand for "rights." It is an obvious attempt at "victory" and the expression of the emotion of victory. A real Sufi would be aware of human obligations towards others and would not want a mosque at ground zero. For them, victory isn't the issue. The human condition is.

You have it backwards, now that is a trick, eh?
 

fool

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You claimed one of the families members wanted the Mosque (I didn't responded "so what?), instead I made the counter claim that most first responders DON'T want the Mosque built. Therefore, your desire for the one mother of a first responder is at very least neutralized.
I don't know how each individual person in this Mosque feels about it. Some prolly think all this isn't worth it.
But, they needed a building and one was for sale, so they bought it.
We can't judge an entire religion based on the actions of a few of it's adherents. Muslim Americans need not hang their heads in shame or sit on the back of the bus or do anything different just because some crazies worship the same God they do.
They don't need anyones permission to exercise their first amendment rights and they don't need to be sensitive toward anyone that wants to disscriminate against them based on the actions of other people that they ave nothing to do with.

They still have their freedom of religion.
Just not their property rights?

They can build elsewhere
How is that freedom?
They already bought the property, no body cared about the old Burlington Coat Factory until they heard Mosque. So anyone painting this as hollowed ground missed the boat when it was sold 4 years ago.
If Muslims wanted to remove the Washington monument and replace it with a Mosque we wouldn't allow it (at least I hope not) based on the fact that the Washington monument is a national park and not zoned for building Mosque's. That fact wouldn't remove their freedom of religion. Instead... they would have to build elsewhere.
They didn't buy the Washington monument, they bought the old Burlington Coat Factory.
Cause they needed a building and it was for sale.
They have been five blocks away for 30 years, they wanted a building near their old one because that's the area they service.

In this case... they have the right to build, but they should choose to build elsewhere out of respect and sensitivity towards 911. Again, that doesn't remove their right to be a Muslim, it just means they should choose to build their building in another location.
I'd like to see Americans stand shoulder to shoulder and support these American's right to their religion and property.
I'd like us all to say them "some people might try to blame you for this but not here, because we are Americans and we stand up for one another"
Is the first amendment limitless? No. Furthermore... who's claiming they are doing something illegal by building there?? Nobody is!!! Nobody is saying they don't have a constitutional right to build the building.
Then what's the drama about?



Instead what people are saying is...
out of respect to the situation and the very special set of circumstances surrounding 911 the Muslims should voluntarily choose to build their high-rise Islamic cultural center/Mosque in a another location.
They should hang their heads in same and get to the back of the bus?
That would just validate peoples perception that they were in some way responsible.

Similarly... insensitive Christian churches shouldn't plant 15 trees commemorating the Columbine massacre.
This has nothing to do with 9-11.
This is an existing community that as been in lower Manhattan for 30 years and is needing to expand, they bought a building that was for sale and nobody cared that they owned it for 4 years.
The word Mosque is uttered and the long knives come out.

Are we gonna let the terrorists do this to us?
Turn on our fellow country men and oppress them because of what God they worship?
People from every faith died that day, when those people rushed into that inferno they didn't ask each other "what God do you worship?"
We shouldn't be asking that now.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
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The best part of this is that it's infuriating to the terrorists who tried to hard to get Christians and Muslims to hate each other. The very fact that we'd let Muslims have that building a few blocks from Ground Zero and that Muslim-Americans would dedicate it to healing divisions between us, is kick in the teeth for the terrorists.

Even among the people here who oppose it, most of them don't really hate Muslims.

And that's a pretty good thing, after all.
 

Nick_A

New member
Behold" The Ground Zero Mosque

http://bigpeace.com/cbrim/2010/08/17/ground-zero-mosques-hidden-websites-follow-the-shariah/

Why don’t the 15 floors add up? How many floors does Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf need for the mosque portion of this triumphal Islamic command center planned for the two building sites at 45-47 Park Place in New York City? Think about it: maybe 2 floors for the mosque itself and related offices. A 3rd floor for the swimming pool, a 4th for the 500 seat auditorium, a 5th for the halal restaurant and halal culinary school, a 6th for the art studios, the childcare center and library, a 7th for the gym and basketball court. Add an 8th floor for miscellaneous storage and offices. And then add a 9th floor for the September 11 memorial, an after-thought that was recently added to the Imam’s plan, although that may in fact be more of a room off to one side than a whole floor.

That leaves six mystery floors empty – or dedicated to other activities. Six floors – that’s a lot of offices, a lot of employees, maybe more than half of the 150 full-time and 500 part-time jobs the Imam says he’ll bring to Lower Manhattan. What are Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf’s plans for those six mystery floors?

Follow the Shariah Index Project to solve the puzzle of the 6 mystery floors: We found two hidden websites with copiously deleted information, all about the Imam’s Cordoba Institute Shariah Index Project. For reference, here’s the Imam’s most recent hidden website (also available here as a pdf). And here’s the Imam’s earlier hidden website (also available here as a pdf). The information on those websites – information that the Imam tried to hide with a new whitewashed version – suggests that the six mystery floors of the Ground Zero Mosque will be dedicated to the Imam’s long-term goal: the Shariah Index Project, designed to benchmark Shariah compliance, to distribute Shariah propaganda, and to enforce Shariah law in America and worldwide.......................................


Continue reading. Very revealing.
 

Ktoyou

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The best part of this is that it's infuriating to the terrorists who tried to hard to get Christians and Muslims to hate each other. The very fact that we'd let Muslims have that building a few blocks from Ground Zero and that Muslim-Americans would dedicate it to healing divisions between us, is kick in the teeth for the terrorists.

Even among the people here who oppose it, most of them don't really hate Muslims.

And that's a pretty good thing, after all.

How do you know "it's infuriating to the terrorists"?
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Hey zoo22....

Can I ask....

All things considered... do you think building this high-rise Mosque 600 feet from ground zero is a wise decision?

I'm still deciding that.

Today, a very hesitant no, but with some clarifications. And I would love to be shown wrong, which I believe is a great possibility. And if it is built I'll support it being built.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
The best part of this is that it's infuriating to the terrorists who tried to hard to get Christians and Muslims to hate each other. The very fact that we'd let Muslims have that building a few blocks from Ground Zero and that Muslim-Americans would dedicate it to healing divisions between us, is kick in the teeth for the terrorists.

That's right! Kick those terrorists in the teeth. What's the worst they could do? Blow up a mosque?

"We should have been highlighting that al Qaeda has killed thousands of Muslims and blown up dozens of mosques around the world." ( See the link)​

Will the ground zero mosque be a Sunni or a Shiite mosque? :think:
 

zoo22

Well-known member
The best part of this is that it's infuriating to the terrorists who tried to hard to get Christians and Muslims to hate each other. The very fact that we'd let Muslims have that building a few blocks from Ground Zero and that Muslim-Americans would dedicate it to healing divisions between us, is kick in the teeth for the terrorists.

I agree.


...The terrorists probably just say "they're not "real" Muslims." :plain:
 

fool

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Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can or should build your place of worship anywhere you want.
He bought a building.
It's zoned retail I'm guessing by it's former occupant.
Sounds like green lights all around.

There are tons of places where you CANNOT build a church. That doesn't remove my freedom of religion.
Is this one of them?
No.
But more importantly... the point you keep missing is nobody is saying they don't have the RIGHT to build there. Instead... it's that they should choose not to build there out of respect for the sensitivity of the area and what it means to this nation.
The point is we should help them build it out of respect for those people who lost their lives that day and out of respect for the core values that this nation was founded on.
If you don't want to help fine, just don't put road blocks in their way based soley on what God they worship.
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Then it's a security risk for two reasons, one domestic and one foreign.


I don't think so (no more than it would be a foreign target anyway). In terms of domestic terrorism, I don't believe that's the way we should be thinking.
 
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