Dark Radiance
New member
I think both the mosque as well as the Orthodox church which was destroyed should be built. However, I would want to know where this sudden influx of cash (in excess of 100 million) is coming from to build the mosque.
toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Right... but you missed the point.
While we here in America ask that the Musilms show a little sensitivity towards the ground zero area and choose to build their Mosque elsewhere... those very same Muslims make it illegal to build churches in their cities. This shows that the Muslims behind this Mosque venture don't care about the feelings and desires of this country and are only interested in promoting their own culture even to the point of dividing this country. They don't even respect the freedom that we give them and they spit on the liberty we have given them here.
This fact brings some more reasonable Muslims to correctly realize that this entire thing hurts their own cause in this country.
From wiki...
One was Sufi Muslim mysticist Suleiman Schwartz, Executive Director of a Washington, DC non-profit organization, the Center for Islamic Pluralism. He said that building the mosque barely two blocks from Ground Zero is inconsistent with the Sufi philosophy of simplicity of faith and sensitivity towards others, and "grossly insensitive."
Another founding member of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, Zuhdi Jasser, who is also the founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, a group of Muslim professionals in the Phoenix Valley of Arizona, strongly opposed the mosque, saying:
For us, a mosque was always a place to pray...—not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement. Ground Zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us as Americans." Neda Bolourchi, a Muslim whose mother died in 9/11, said: "I fear it would become a symbol of victory for militant Muslims around the world."
Authors Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, board members of the Muslim Canadian Congress, said:
We Muslims know the ... mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation, to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith, ... as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.... As Muslims we are dismayed that our co-religionists have such little consideration for their fellow citizens, and wish to rub salt in their wounds and pretend they are applying a balm to sooth the pain.
Hossein Kamaly, Term Assistant Professor of Asian and Middle Eastern Cultures at Barnard College, Columbia University, observed:
After all, it was 19 Egyptian and Saudi Arabian thugs calling themselves Muslims who perpetrated this heinous crime on September 11th. They want to send a message of friendship, but building a mosque where there wasn't one before, is not the most nuanced way of doing that.
Akbar Ahmed, Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at American University, while noting that blaming all Muslims for 9/11 was "ridiculous", said:
I don't think the Muslim leadership has fully appreciated the impact of 9/11 on America. They assume Americans have forgotten 9/11 and even, in a profound way, forgiven 9/11, and that has not happened. The wounds remain largely open and when wounds are raw, an episode like constructing a house of worship—even one protected by the Constitution, protected by law—becomes like salt in the wounds.
Another founding member of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, Zuhdi Jasser, who is also the founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, a group of Muslim professionals in the Phoenix Valley of Arizona, strongly opposed the mosque, saying:
For us, a mosque was always a place to pray...—not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement. Ground Zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us as Americans." Neda Bolourchi, a Muslim whose mother died in 9/11, said: "I fear it would become a symbol of victory for militant Muslims around the world."
Authors Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, board members of the Muslim Canadian Congress, said:
We Muslims know the ... mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation, to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith, ... as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.... As Muslims we are dismayed that our co-religionists have such little consideration for their fellow citizens, and wish to rub salt in their wounds and pretend they are applying a balm to sooth the pain.
Hossein Kamaly, Term Assistant Professor of Asian and Middle Eastern Cultures at Barnard College, Columbia University, observed:
After all, it was 19 Egyptian and Saudi Arabian thugs calling themselves Muslims who perpetrated this heinous crime on September 11th. They want to send a message of friendship, but building a mosque where there wasn't one before, is not the most nuanced way of doing that.
Akbar Ahmed, Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at American University, while noting that blaming all Muslims for 9/11 was "ridiculous", said:
I don't think the Muslim leadership has fully appreciated the impact of 9/11 on America. They assume Americans have forgotten 9/11 and even, in a profound way, forgiven 9/11, and that has not happened. The wounds remain largely open and when wounds are raw, an episode like constructing a house of worship—even one protected by the Constitution, protected by law—becomes like salt in the wounds.
And that my friend is your problem.
This IS an emotional issue. This isn't a legal battle... it's an emotional one.
This entire debate isn't about rights.... yet about tact, sensitivity, and respect.
Your setting aside your emotion on this issue is the very reason you are wrong.
Do you even read what I write??? What's the point of you participating on my forum???
There are NO legal grounds to prevent them from building the Mosque.
Get it???
OK, now I know why Sozo/madman was calling you all morons this morning.
Knight your only point is that it's Islam.
If a great tragedy happened at the hands of the Christian terrorist groups we have here, say Army of God etc. Let's say they bombed a hospital or something they didn't like, no one would cry that a few yrs later a Christian Church was about to be built there. Plain and simple.
I doubt if a new church went up near where the Army of God terrorist bombed the 96 Atlanta Olympics, anyone would complain. No one.
The problem is one cannot have logical discourse with Muslims, unless it is about their religion. They do not care about common welfare, only extreme views of sacrifice.
While the mosque may seem a freedom of religion to us, it is a victory to them and adds to their disrespect. I know not all Muslims think this way, yet national Islam does think this way. :sigh:
Yeah, Hitler saw American tolerance as weakness too. There's a lesson there for anyone willing to see it.
For Americans, it's not about politics, it's about doing the right thing. The problem is, a lot of people want to do the right thing, as long as it's not the left thing.
I notice that many have now claimed that they know the Americans building the Mosque (actually not a mosque, but a cultural center) have a right to do it. But then why were they trying so furiously to prevent them from doing it?
Right!
And it was Islamic terrorists who perpetrated 911. Therefore the connection is too great and too painful for this country and it is a bad idea to build there simply for sake of unity and respect.
You are leaving out an important aspect to your analogy..... lets say "Christian" terrorists blew up a Mosque in Denver in a Muslim community. It would show poor judgment to build a Christian church right next to the memorial for the Mosque even knowing that these "Christian" terrorists don't represent Christianity.
My guess is... most (if not all) Christian ministries would never do such a thing.
zoo22
Well-known member
But it's not the very same Muslims. These are Americans.
I don't believe that is the intent (as some obviously do believe). I believe the intent is the opposite.
I think if it's built, it can and should exemplify our strength, determination, freedom. And I believe if it is built, that's the way we should look at it.
I also can certainly understand the uproar, and most of the quotes you posted make sense to me.
Are you asserting that Muslims in the middle-east are extremist and unlike American Muslims??
So then you must object to Christian missionaries over in Iraq setting up camp and trying to convert people. Talk about poor taste. Let's not forget that Tons more than your 3,000 have been killed there by Christian Americans. I don't see you objecting to their missionary work over there. Thats worse than a Denver Mosque blowing up. And judging from your character, you'd be one of the ones in support of a mosque being blown up.
Please, talking about most Christian ministries would not do such a thing. They sure are in Iraq.
Obviously you are asserting that they are with no evidence of such.
Yah right, Hitler Hitler Hitler!
Americans not about politics? Where do you live, under a rock?:shocked:
I can understand the response...but coming from an area of the country where, in my youth, I witnessed first hand what happens when rights are considered less sacrosanct than our response to them and the many horrors that entailed I'm disinclined to yield the point or ground on the error in doing that.
I'm obviously not a Muslim. I'm not disconnected to the emotional center of this. My brother, who for a few hours...for a time we didn't know. I listened to the towers fall on my way to court not knowing. It isn't that I'm removed, but that I think there's more at stake in this. And I believe you have the wrong of it. And I would be the worse sort of friend to tell you differently or to fail to raise my voice against a practice or position I found unworthy of people whom I believe are anything but.
And with that I have said all I can say on the matter and leave it to the rest of you with my very best hope and regard.
That's fine but guess what? That isn't the way most people are going to look at it.
It is already dividing this country. This will not be a positive thing for Muslim Americans. Right or wrong.... this is going to make most people more skeptical of the intentions of the Muslim community.
Why do something so detrimental to ones own cause? Normally that's a red flag for ulterior motives.
That's encouraging.
WizardofOz
New member
:first:
I guess two blocks further away has just been far enough to have avoided controversy. Or, maybe all the critics of the possible new location didn't know or didn't care about the mosque already in existence just two blocks away.
Is two blocks further away just enough for no one to have cared?
Hard to tell what year elections take place in, huh?
elohiym
Well-known member
You just side-stepped his point. You also fail to realize that a percentage of Iraqis are Christians, and were so under Saddam, too.
Would there be anything wrong with building a Zen Buddhist temple over the USS Arizona Memorial, in your opinion? If not, why? If so, why?
ETA: Since you just got banned while I was posting this, consider the question rhetorical. :wave2:
I know where you are coming from; we hurt them and I see little improvement from the other side. This issue with Muslims has been going on for more than 1000 years. It is quite different.
Prayers for your brother here.
GuySmiley
Well-known member
What if the church was built by "The First Crusade Foundation: a Christian - Muslim peace outreach"
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