The Order of Salvation

[patrick jane]

The people used to have to clean themselves by doing the ceremonial works.

Since Jesus shed his blood on the cross, all people only have to do to get clean is to have faith that HIS BLOOD cleans us.

But you pretend that not of works means only ceremonial works. That's wrong

 

[glorydaz]

You have been given much and have a brain to obey or disobey. Now answer the questions I ask. Who gave you the special enabling to get up this morning? Who gave you the enabling to come to dinner and eat with your family? Who gave you the enabling to be a school by 8? Who gave you the enabling to do all the things you make up your own mind to do every day?

Who is enabling unbelievers to do those things?

Jesus' words are Spirit and life.

I sure was talking about Jesus' words. Go back and look again.

I did go back and look....nothing there about Jesus' words.

I brought up how we all have the ability to do right and wrong, to obey, to obey our own bodies, to obey our parents, our teacher, our boss.

Even unbelievers have the ability to follow their conscience. Those who don't "obey" their bosses will be looking for another job. What does that have to do with anything?

So why can't you obey Jesus?

I did. He told me to believe in Him....that's the obedience of faith I'm always talking about. Scripture tells me eternal life is a Gift. Trying to work for eternal life is a false "gospel". There is no good news in that gospel.

 

[glorydaz]

But you pretend that not of works means only ceremonial works. That's wrong

Yeah, especially since the Gentiles are saved without any kind of works.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.​

 

[glorydaz]

The only time faith alone is mentioned is in the KJV and it is to warn us of what kind of faith not to have.

Did the prostitute Rahab just have to believe, or did she have to tell the spies a different direction?

Did Abraham just have to believe or did he have to actually take Isaac with him and put him on the altar?


What you say there proves you have to obey. Even asking God to forgive you is obeying.
Where do you ever get that I say we don't have to have faith?

I didn't say you said "we don't have to have faith". You know I didn't say that. I didn't say we have to ask God to forgive us. We don't. We trust and believe he died for our sins....case closed. He did it and we believe it.

Abraham was saved BEFORE he ever had a son. He was saved when he believed God.

Romans 4:21-22 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.​

That Rahab and Abraham both demonstrated their faith by what they did, does NOT mean those actions saved them or kept them saved. If I believe it's raining outside, I will grab my umbrella. I could just as easily go out without my umbrella and end up getting wet. You can't confuse what God has ordained and what He performs in us with something as significant as God's GIFT of LIFE. We get life when we believe...what comes after has nothing to do with our being ALIVE in Christ Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

What are you now a Calvinist? God and Jesus do not make people come to them. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

Where did I say Jesus makes people come to them? You are so steeped in falseness you do not even hear right at all. Show were I said Jesus makes us.

Jesus chooses whom he saves and he saves he saves those who do right and obey him.


Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

You can't get around those powerful words.

 

[God's Truth]

But you pretend that not of works means only ceremonial works. That's wrong

It is the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

Who is enabling unbelievers to do those things?

They have freewill to obey or not to obey.

I did go back and look....nothing there about Jesus' words.

Think again, it is all about Jesus.

Even unbelievers have the ability to follow their conscience. Those who don't "obey" their bosses will be looking for another job. What does that have to do with anything?

Did you lose focus? I am explaining how we have freewill to believe and obey Jesus or not.

I did. He told me to believe in Him....that's the obedience of faith I'm always talking about. Scripture tells me eternal life is a Gift. Trying to work for eternal life is a false "gospel". There is no good news in that gospel.

Jesus tells us more than to just believe. The work Jesus tells us to do is light, easy, and not burdensome. Why do you make it as if it is not?
I love obeying Jesus. There is nothing I would rather do.

 

[God's Truth]

Yeah, especially since the Gentiles are saved without any kind of works.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.​

That is proof that it is about the ceremonial works.

 

[glorydaz]

That is proof that it is about the ceremonial works.

:doh:

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't say you said "we don't have to have faith". You know I didn't say that. I didn't say we have to ask God to forgive us. We don't.

God disciplines us so that we do repent.

We trust and believe he died for our sins....case closed. He did it and we believe it.

There are MANY people who believe that, but they do not obey, and they live their lives as always.

Abraham was saved BEFORE he ever had a son. He was saved when he believed God.

Before Abraham ever had a son, God told him where to go---and he obeyed and went.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Romans 4:21-22 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.​

That Rahab and Abraham both demonstrated their faith by what they did, does NOT mean those actions saved them or kept them saved.

The scriptures say it did.

If I believe it's raining outside, I will grab my umbrella. I could just as easily go out without my umbrella and end up getting wet. You can't confuse what God has ordained and what He performs in us with something as significant as God's GIFT of LIFE. We get life when we believe...what comes after has nothing to do with our being ALIVE in Christ Jesus.

God doesn't tell us to get umbrellas when it rains. Jesus' words are Spirit and life. No one gets that life without obeying his perfect words.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus tells us more than to just believe. The work Jesus tells us to do is light, easy, and not burdensome. Why do you make it as if it is not?
I love obeying Jesus. There is nothing I would rather do.

Then why do you claim we HAVE to do it in order to be saved or stay saved?

Something you HAVE to do is not something you do willingly because you enjoy doing it.

Philemon 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;​

Necessity and constraint are of the Law.....willingly is of Grace.

 

[God's Truth]

:doh:

That scripture is proof it is about the ceremonial works.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.


Look how many times Paul speaks of the ceremonial work CIRCUMCISION, in Romans alone.


Romans 2:25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 2:27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 3:1 [ God’s Faithfulness ] What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.


Nowhere anywhere does Paul say not of obeying. He is saying not of circumcision.

 

[God's Truth]

Then why do you claim we HAVE to do it in order to be saved or stay saved?

Something you HAVE to do is not something you do willingly because you enjoy doing it.

Philemon 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;​

Necessity and constraint are of the Law.....willingly is of Grace.

We have to obey willingly. Who said anything about it not being willingly?

One has to obey if they want to be saved. I want someone to try it and see the power in it.

 

[glorydaz]

We have to obey willingly.

That's an oxymoron. If you HAVE to do something, it's not willingly done.

Who said anything about it not being willingly?

One has to obey if they want to be saved.

Then salvation is not a Gift, but of yourself. Which is absolutely contrary to Scripture.

I want someone to try it and see the power in it.

I'd like you to see the power of God when He does what you can never dream of doing.

I'd like to see you giving God the glory instead of seeking praise for what you claim to be doing.

You can't see your own hubris and pride in that statement? You think you are so high above others here, that you alone have reached such heights of glory? That is sad....very sad. :sigh:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.​

 

[patrick jane]

We have to obey willingly. Who said anything about it not being willingly?

One has to obey if they want to be saved. I want someone to try it and see the power in it.

If you obey then you are without sin.

1 John 1:8 KJV -

 

[Robert Pate]

If you obey then you are without sin.

1 John 1:8 KJV -

All that God demands for the salvation of fallen man has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. So that we can be COMPLETE in him, Colossians 2:10.

 

[God's Truth]

If you obey then you are without sin.

1 John 1:8 KJV -

Read that scripture more carefully. That scripture is about the truth not being in the one that says they have no sin. That is about being saved in the first place. See, we must admit to being sinners in order to be saved. If you say you have no sin, then you can't be saved.

 

[God's Truth]

That's an oxymoron. If you HAVE to do something, it's not willingly done.

That is absolutely not true.

If you want to do anything in life you have to be willing.

Then salvation is not a Gift, but of yourself. Which is absolutely contrary to Scripture.

Salvation is a GIFT TO THOSE WHOM JESUS wants to give the gift.

Jesus wants to give the gift to those he wants to give the gift, and it is to those who OBEY.

I'd like you to see the power of God when He does what you can never dream of doing.

I have a powerful testimony.

I'd like to see you giving God the glory instead of seeking praise for what you claim to be doing.

I received from God what I did because I loved all his words, not just 'believe'.

You can't see your own hubris and pride in that statement? You think you are so high above others here, that you alone have reached such heights of glory? That is sad....very sad. :sigh:

It is never ever shameful to do what Jesus says. It is never ever prideful to show someone else how to receive. Isn't that why Cain hated Abel and killed him?

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.​

Satan didn't humble himself and obey God. I humble myself and obey.

 

[beloved57]

All that God demands for the salvation of fallen man has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. So that we can be COMPLETE in him, Colossians 2:10.

Huh, false teaching, Col 2:10 says nothing of that !

 

[beloved57]

That's an oxymoron. If you HAVE to do something, it's not willingly done.



Then salvation is not a Gift, but of yourself. Which is absolutely contrary to Scripture.



I'd like you to see the power of God when He does what you can never dream of doing.

I'd like to see you giving God the glory instead of seeking praise for what you claim to be doing.

You can't see your own hubris and pride in that statement? You think you are so high above others here, that you alone have reached such heights of glory? That is sad....very sad. :sigh:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.​

Both of you believe in Salvation by what the sinner does. Dont you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost and condemned until they do something ? Yes or No ?