The New Testament is Jewish

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clefty

New member
Jacob said:
I don't know what you mean by saying "as if that tribe wrote it". You need to evaluate if you want to speak this way any longer. I have no idea what you mean by "that tribe" but what you are saying has nothing to do with what I have shared with you.

As a Jew I know of the Torah. It is Jewish. The TaNaKh is Jewish. It is the Hebrew Bible. The New Testament is Jewish. These Scriptures or Writings tell us about Yeshua (Jesus) who is Jewish being a Jew. The early church, in its conception, was entirely Jewish. Believers from among the Gentiles were added to their number. They received the Spirit of God the same way the Jewish believers had.
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That tribe is Judah...what is so hard to understand about that?

To state something is Irish it means it was more than likely made in Ireland or by the Irish or for Irish or a combination of or all three...like an Irish ale...

Yet here you are stating the Torah, even the New Testament, is of one tribe Judah...which part? made in? by? or only for?

Now imagine 99% of Ireland rejected the ale as its own...but then one guy says "no I got my citizenship and can say I love it...so it must be Irish..."

Repeat as often as you like but it is still false...your tribe rejected God having another God...die and be resurrected especially...
 
Jacob

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clefty said:
That tribe is Judah...what is so hard to understand about that?

To state something is Irish it means it was more than likely made in Ireland or by the Irish or for Irish or a combination of or all three...like an Irish ale...

Yet here you are stating the Torah, even the New Testament, is of one tribe Judah...which part? made in? by? or only for?

Now imagine 99% of Ireland rejected the ale as its own...but then one guy says "no I got my citizenship and can say I love it...so it must be Irish..."

Repeat as often as you like but it is still false...your tribe rejected God having another God...die and be resurrected especially...
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Now you are saying I said something I didn't say.

Here is something you can study.

Judah the southern kingdom. Judah the tribe. The definition of a Jew. Judaism. Israel.
 
C

clefty

New member
Jacob said:
Now you are saying I said something I didn't say.

Here is something you can study.

Judah the southern kingdom. Judah the tribe. The definition of a Jew. Judaism. Israel.
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Yes the one that charged the rest of Israel a tax to come and worship in the temple...a tax so high it started a civil war which divided Israel caused idolatry weakened her and finally destroyed her forever...the same tribe a conspiracy was found a long time ago...
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
clefty said:
Paul only argued that the Gentiles did not need to be circumcised to associate with the tribe or to be saved...but the tribe was coming around claiming they had to be in order to merely associate and to be saved...
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Paul was not preaching to the Gentiles but to Jews to stop circumcising their own children and quit the customs of Moses. (Acts 21:21) There was no limit to his arrogance.

Remember how there were goyim that followed them out of Egypt?...they were not circumcised and were still saved given sabbath even...and lived among them...and now again in Paul's time they were crowding into synagogues Sabbath after Sabbath.
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Synagogues were not places for Gentiles to crowd in. Those were Jewish synagogues that Paul would overturn them and turn them into Christian churches. That's how he worked, as the cuckoo birds that would lay their eggs in other small birds' nests so that their little one be fed by a different mother.

But then the jealous tribal leaders came to insist upon circumcision first...well that was never the case and salvation through works was not the faith based gospel found since the OT...they agreed that these new goyim should at least keep from fornication and kosher as the more lenient "noahide"laws expected...
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They were former Gentiles converted by the apostles of Jesus into the Sect of the Nazarenes and Paul, who could never raise a church from scratch, would build on the foundation of others.

But Paul never forbid circumcision...just insisted it was not salvific...never was but a sign one already was...and now in the Risen One.
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Circumcision was never for salvation in Israel. Salvation from what? So, you believe that Paul never forbade circumcision! Read Acts 21:21. He would try to forbid circumcision even among the Jews Which was the climax of arrogance.
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Jacob

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clefty said:
Yes the one that charged the rest of Israel a tax to come and worship in the temple...a tax so high it started a civil war which divided Israel caused idolatry weakened her and finally destroyed her forever...the same tribe a conspiracy was found a long time ago...
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I don't know what you are talking about.

If you are a Jew you are of Israel and observe Judaism. There is a person who is a Jew, a person who is Jewish, and a person who observes Judaism. This is all the same person. Whether you were born a Jew or you are a convert you are a Jew. Otherwise you are not a Jew.
 
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Acts 21:20-26 NASB - 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 "What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 "Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. 25 "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication." 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.
 
C

clefty

New member
Ben Masada said:
Paul was not preaching to the Gentiles but to Jews to stop circumcising their own children and quit the customs
of Moses. (Acts 21:21) There was no limit to his arrogance.



Synagogues were not places for Gentiles to crowd in. Those were Jewish synagogues that Paul would overturn them
and turn them into Christian churches. That's how he worked, as the cuckoo birds that would lay their eggs in other small birds' nests so that little one be fed by a different mother.



They were former Gentiles converted by the apostles of Jesus into the Sect of the Nazarenes and Paul, who could
never raise a church from scratch, would build on the foundation of others.



Circumcision was never for salvation in Israel. Salvation from what? So, you believe that Paul never forbade circumcision! Read Acts 21:21. He would try to forbid circumcision even among the Jews Which was the climax of
arrogance.
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As I suspected... you are attempting to slander Paul by continuing the false witness of those who alleged things of Paul which were not true...and now here in chapter 21 he even took a vow to show he was faithful and obedient and not teaching what his accusers (you) were lying about him...instead James had him shave his head "that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law."

It's ok though, most Christians errorenously claim the same thing of Paul, namely that he did away with the law, certainly Sabbath, the dietary restrictions, festivals etc...but they do it for less diabolical reasons...maybe?
 
C

clefty

New member
Jacob said:
I don't know what you are talking about.
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The tribe of Judah to which you converted into despite One teaching of its rejection of Him...

If you are a Jew you are of Israel and observe Judaism.
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except Israel did not observe Judaism...nor did those that believed in Him

There is a person who is a Jew, a person who is Jewish, and a person who observes Judaism. This is all the same person. Whether you were born a Jew or you are a convert you are a Jew. Otherwise you are not a Jew.
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All these would kick out any who claimed God had another God and He was killed and was resurrected...yup...they would probably stone him or have the Romans do something about it...they would certainly not allow those idolatrous blasphemers to remain one of them...

Doubt they would accept the New Testament was theirs too...
 
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clefty said:
The tribe of Judah to which you converted into despite One teaching of its rejection of Him...

except Israel did not observe Judaism...nor did those that believed in Him



All three would kick out any who claimed God had another God and He was killed and was resurrected...yup...they would probably stone him or have the Romans do something about it...they would certainly not allow those idolatrous blasphemers to remain one of them...
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Your ideas here have nothing to do with what I am saying.

Also, you have here said I am of the tribe of Judah. I don't know why you say this.
 
C

clefty

New member
Jacob said:
Also, you have here said I am of the tribe of Judah. I don't know why you say this.
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Here is a hint you gave:

"As a Jew I know of the Torah. It is Jewish. The TaNaKh is Jewish. It is the Hebrew Bible. The New Testament is Jewish."

And since I did what you said to do here:

"Here is something you can study.

Judah the southern kingdom. Judah the tribe. The definition of a Jew. Judaism. Israel."

So you went from believing the Father has a Son who died and was resurrected to a belief that rejects the same...
 
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clefty said:
Here is a hint you gave:

"As a Jew I know of the Torah. It is Jewish. The TaNaKh is Jewish. It is the Hebrew Bible. The New Testament is Jewish."
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You are right that being Jewish can mean that one is of the tribe of Judah. But I mean that I am a Jew, of Israel, and practicing Judaism, all by way of being a convert. I don't know where people get the idea that being Jewish means you are of the tribe of Judah. Maybe you do. I don't.

If you are of the tribe of Judah you are Jewish. What do Judah, the tribe of Judah, being a Jew, and observing Judaism, have to do with being Jewish?

Judah the southern kingdom was there when the kingdom was divided. It was taken into exile. Then Judah returned to the land. I may be combining some before and after when I think of the term Judah.
 
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B

Ben Masada

New member
clefty said:
As I suspected... you are attempting to slander Paul by continuing the false witness of those who alleged things of Paul which were not true...and now here in chapter 21 he even took a vow to show he was faithful and obedient and not teaching what his accusers (you) were lying about him...instead James had him shave his head "that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law."

It's ok though, most Christians errorenously claim the same thing of Paul, namely that he did away with the law, certainly Sabbath, the dietary restrictions, festivals etc...but they do it for less diabolical reasons...maybe?
Click to expand...

Wrong! Paul did not take a vow because he had no vow to pay. The suggestion was given by James the head of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem. The suggestion was for Paul to camouflage himself as a religious Jew paying a vow in the Temple so that the Jews could see that and only wonder that Paul had reconsidered his decision. But since God is not to mock, Jews from the East recognized Paul in the Temple and arrested him on the charge that he was mocking the Law and the Temple. The end result is that Paul appealed to Caesar, went to Rome and was never seen again in Jerusalem. He died in Rome without having ever seen Caesar whom he appealed to. Why? Because as I have said above, God is not to mock.
 
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