ECT The Land Promise the LORD Gave To David

[Lazy afternoon]

I never said that. I quoted Jereemiah 31:31-34 where it says that there will come a time when all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob belonging to the house of Israel and the house of Judah will be saved.

Due to your unbelief you deny what is so plain in those verses.

And now you just IGNORE the fact that when the house of Israel and house of Judah will be made one they will be in the land which the LORD gave to Jacob and they will remain there for ever!

As the children of Abraham Isaac and Jacob are the elect of God only, to whom we gentile believers are joined into their olive tree, and all unbelievers being cut off, then it should be clear that the great multitude mortals of Rev.ch 7 who come from all languages and nations and races, are in fact the end result of the work of their mother the Bride to be resurrected.

Jerry, you are not in that Bride of the new covenant, but you can be if you ask the Lord to open your eyes and receive His Spirit of the new covenant.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Then tell me when these things happened:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Jerry , you always cut off the part after Mat.25:31.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The only place in the future that all nations will be gathered before Christ on His Throne is at the last judgment.

There is no place in scripture that it will occur prior to the last judgment at the end of the thousand years.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The reward of the sheep is the Kingdom prepared for them before the foundation of the world, and the reward of the goats is the casting of them into the lake of fire.

Clearly is not an event to occur during the thousand years.

The sitting of Christ on His Throne is for Judgment in Mat.ch 25, because Christ has ascended to Gods throne (the Throne of His Glory)and sits there now mediating the new covenant ever since it was put in place 2000 years ago.

LA

 

[Danoh]

Lol the land promise is spiritual/heavenly.

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Once more, your obvious, ever infamous incompetence is duly noted :chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

Jerry , you always cut off the part after Mat.25:31.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The only place in the future that all nations will be gathered before Christ on His Throne is at the last judgment.

There is no place in scripture that it will occur prior to the last judgment at the end of the thousand years.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The reward of the sheep is the Kingdom prepared for them before the foundation of the world, and the reward of the goats is the casting of them into the lake of fire.

Clearly is not an event to occur during the thousand years.

The sitting of Christ on His Throne is for Judgment in Mat.ch 25, because Christ has ascended to Gods throne (the Throne of His Glory)and sits there now mediating the new covenant ever since it was put in place 2000 years ago.

LA

This fact of one judgement really is the point. I should say: there is no 2nd judgement to go with 2P2P's other twos of things.

 

[beloved57]

Once more, your obvious, ever infamous incompetence is duly noted :chuckle:

Lol, the land of promise is spiritual and heavenly Heb 11:16

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: why God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he has prepared for them a city.

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[Interplanner]

Lol, the land of promise is spiritual and heavenly Heb 11:16

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: why God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he has prepared for them a city.

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"But now..."? Isn't Hebrews saying it never was about the land they were in, in Judea, but is like Gal 3:8-9 that way? That the promise always was about Christ and things true in Christ, not in Israel (either the land or the ethne)?

 

[beloved57]

"But now..."? Isn't Hebrews saying it never was about the land they were in, in Judea, but is like Gal 3:8-9 that way? That the promise always was about Christ and things true in Christ, not in Israel (either the land or the ethne)?

It was not about the land they were in. Who said that it was. They were not in a Spiritual and Heavenly land.

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[Interplanner]

It was not about the land they were in. Who said that it was. They were not in a Spiritual and Heavenly land.

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I wondered why you put "but now..."

 

[beloved57]

I wondered why you put "but now..."

Just part of the sentence

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[Interplanner]

Does Hebrews say the "OT" believer was seeking heaven as well? That those promises never were about Judea?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That is about the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT TIME. That is the resurrection of the dead when the wicked will be raised and judged to go to eternal condemnation, and the saved will be raised to eternal life.

No, Matthew 25:31-32 will be fulfilled when this happens:

"For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land" (Joel 3:1-2).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Lol, the land of promise is spiritual and heavenly Heb 11:16

Not this one which the LORD promised to David:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up"(Jer.24:6).​

"And not pluck them up"! The nation of Israel has never returned to the land and afterward moved no more. Therefore, this promise will not be fulfilled until sometime in the future. Besides that the LORD said that He would not "alter" the promises which He nade to David:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

The promise which the LORD made to David concerning the land will not be altered and in the future the children of wickedness will never again afflict the Jews as before:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

Of course there are many people on this forum who say that the LORD altered His promise to David and now "the land of promise is spiritual and heavenly."

Nothing could be farther from that truth!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry don't you believe that the Spirit of Christ is within?

Sure I do. And that is why I cannot throw my reason to the wind and imagine that the following prophecy is being fulilled at the present time:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).

That will not happen until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth and begins to sit upon His throne:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

These things are so easy to understand but despite this some people have been deceived into thinking that the prophecies found in the OT do not mean what they say.

 

[Interplanner]

Sure I do. And that is why I cannot throw my reason to the wind and imagine that the following prophecy is being fulilled at the present time:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).

That will not happen until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth and begins to sit upon His throne:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

These things are so easy to understand but despite this some people have been deceived into thinking that the prophecies found in the OT do not mean what they say.

Jerry,
you pick out one NT passage because it will help you but you ignore others that won't. acts 2:30-31 tells us what David really saw coming, and the only thing clearly said by the NT about the land of Israel is its utter destruction in the destruction of Jerusalem , in Lk 21 and I Th 2 about the total wrath upon Israel. Funny how those same passages mention nothing of your fav OT passages for the sake of 'equal time' etc.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry,
you pick out one NT passage because it will help you but you ignore others that won't. acts 2:30-31 tells us what David really saw coming, and the only thing clearly said by the NT about the land of Israel is its utter destruction in the destruction of Jerusalem , in Lk 21 and I Th 2 about the total wrath upon Israel. Funny how those same passages mention nothing of your fav OT passages for the sake of 'equal time' etc.

Evidently you did not read the first chapter of Acts. The Apostles were with the resurrected Christ for forty days while He tutored them on the things concerning the kingdom (Acts 1:3). And after receiving this teaching they expected that at some point in time the kingdom would be restored to Israel, asking Hin the following:

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).​

If they were wrong for expecting that the kingdom would be restored to Israel then He certainly would have corrected them, especially since He was about to send them out unto the world to preach the "gospel of the kingdom." He did not correct them but instead told them that they were not tom know the time when it would happen (Acts 1:7).

If the restoration of the kingdom to Israel will never happen then it would make absolutely no sense for the Lord Jesus to say anything to the Apostles in regard to the timing of it happening.

If I understand your views correctly the kingdom will never be restored to Israel. Since I have no evidence that you were personally tutored by the Lord Jesus about the kingdom then I will have to believe that the Apostles were right for expecting that the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

 

[Interplanner]

JS wrote:
If the restoration of the kingdom to Israel will never happen then it would make absolutely no sense for the Lord Jesus to say anything to the Apostles in regard to the timing of it happening.


And you think that is a clear answer to it? No thanks!

The expression actually means 'none of your business' or 'we are not going there' or 'that's the wrong direction.'

The answer is provided in the line after of course, but you don't read the line after because it doesn't "help" you--it doesn't help 2P2P.

"You will receive power..." That power was the kingdom's arrival that he was talking about, and that's why they needed to stop thinking about 'the restoration of Israel' as they knew it, because it is a total misconception. Remember, it is not that long ago that these same children of Judaism were tone-deaf when he connected his death with being Messiah. They didn't know what he meant.

In the same sense, they didn't know what the real kingdom launch meant. But then it happened, at Pentecost, and all of a sudden they had the authority of the reign of God, because God in the resurrection had made Jesus LORD AND CHRIST to all mankind, and made that message to be preached.

Here you are 2000 years later trying to take the fumes of one of their last burps of Judaism and make it the CENTRAL ORGANIZING DOCTRINE OF THE BIBLE.

On top of this, here is David in Acts 2:30-31 saying that he saw the resurrection as the enthronement all along!!! That is the enthroned King and his reign. That is to be preached all over the world.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And you think that is a clear answer to it? No thanks!

Please tell me why the Lord Jesus would answer the Apostles question if there was no chance at all that it would ever happen?:

" And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power" (Acts 1:4-7).​

It would make absolutely no sense that the Lord Jesus would say anything about the timing when it would happen if it will never happen. So please explain why why He would answer their question by saying this:

"It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power"(Acts 1:7).​

 

[Interplanner]

Please tell me why the Lord Jesus would answer the Apostles question if there was no chance at all that it would ever happen?:

" And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power" (Acts 1:4-7).​

It would make absolutely no sense that the Lord Jesus would say anything about the timing when it would happen if it will never happen. So please explain why why He would answer their question by saying this:

"It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power"(Acts 1:7).​

To answer it at all? Well that is a huge question, isn't it? How do you get people to unthink what they have thought for 30 years? How do you get people in 2P2P to see out side of it? They can't.

Yet by saying how the power came, He answered what he wanted to answer. They weren't supposed to ask about their conception again; he answered the way he wanted by saying what kind of power was coming.

He did not validate them; he took them as far into his new way as he could. The first thing to address was what kind of power would exist in the new form of the kingdom. It would be the power to proclaim. When THAT happened, they would know all they needed to know about timetables, schemes, chronologies, etc.

 

[God's Truth]

No, Matthew 25:31-32 will be fulfilled when this happens:

"For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land" (Joel 3:1-2).​

Jesus came the first time and those who come to him are His people.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Apostle Paul even quotes Psalm 117:1 to let the Gentiles know that it was said in the Old Testament that they would be brought near to God one day.

Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.


Jesus coming the first time is when ALL can be His people and we must be ready, for when he comes again it will be too late.

Why don't you ever answer my questions?

Tell me how those who reject Jesus will be able to be saved when he comes again if he is NOT coming to BEAR SIN?

We are saved by Jesus bearing our sin.

How will Jews who reject him be saved AFTER HE COMES?

Answer the question! You want to be a teacher here among us, then answer!

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

[Interplanner]

Jesus came the first time and those who come to him are His people.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Apostle Paul even quotes Psalm 117:1 to let the Gentiles know that it was said in the Old Testament that they would be brought near to God one day.

Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.


Jesus coming the first time is when ALL can be His people and we must be ready, for when he comes again it will be too late.

Why don't you ever answer my questions?

Tell me how those who reject Jesus will be able to be saved when he comes again if he is NOT coming to BEAR SIN?

We are saved by Jesus bearing our sin.

How will Jews who reject him be saved AFTER HE COMES?

Answer the question! You want to be a teacher here among us, then answer!

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Watch out now! Anything can happen. I've even heard some 'prophecy experts' have Christ crucified all over again at the end of the tribulation or something, to make everything happen just right. Because they wanted the mill to be full of Jews who believed on Christ, not just there by genetic stock.