RELIGION: A Diversion Away From Christ and His Gospel

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Oops sorry, I was responding to the bottom half. So I wasn't responding to you but that post was in response to what Robert said, sorry again

P.s. I'm glad we agree.

:thumb:

Apology accepted....although hardly even necessary. I wasn't offended or anything.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

If you don't have faith in Christ and his Gospel you will be very religious. Religious people are concerned about their sins and they probably should be because they are still in them.

Then Jesus was religious. He taught His followers to be concerned with their sins:

Matt. 5:29: "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell." (NKJV)


Matt. 6:12: "And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors."

Paul was religious, too. He was concerned with sin:

Romans 7:19-20: "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me." (NKJV)

Eph. 4:26: "“Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath," (NKJV)

The author of Hebrews was religious and concerned about sin:

Heb. 12:4: " You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin." (NKJV)

James was religious and concerned about sin:

James 4:17: "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." (NKJV)

Peter was religious and concerned about sin:

1 Peter 4:8: "And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.” (NKJV)

John was religious and concerned about sin:

1 John 1:8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NKJV)

Since the Holy Spirit guided the writing of the above Scriptures, we'd have to say that the Holy Spirit is concerned with sin as well.

We who believe the Gospel, believe that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. And that we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

It is not until you are free from sin that you will be able to live above it.

Robert, would you do me the courtesy of answering this question, please:

Do I have to have my sins forgiven to get to Heaven?

Thanks.

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Then Jesus was religious. He taught His followers to be concerned with their sins:

Matt. 5:29: "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell." (NKJV)


Matt. 6:12: "And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors."

Paul was religious, too. He was concerned with sin:

Romans 7:19-20: "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me." (NKJV)

Eph. 4:26: "“Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath," (NKJV)

The author of Hebrews was religious and concerned about sin:

Heb. 12:4: " You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin." (NKJV)

James was religious and concerned about sin:

James 4:17: "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." (NKJV)

Peter was religious and concerned about sin:

1 Peter 4:8: "And above all things have fervent love for one another, for “love will cover a multitude of sins.” (NKJV)

John was religious and concerned about sin:

1 John 1:8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NKJV)

Since the Holy Spirit guided the writing of the above Scriptures, we'd have to say that the Holy Spirit is concerned with sin as well.



Robert, would you do me the courtesy of answering this question, please:

Do I have to have my sins forgiven to get to Heaven?

Thanks.

Peace.

The only thing that is going to pass in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ. If God does not see you as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10, you will never see heaven.

Jesus was born under the law. Grew up under the law and died for the sins of humanity under the law. Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the law, Romans 4:10. All who are in Christ are free from the law, Romans 8:2.

To be free from the law is to be free from sin. I am no longer concerned with sin simply because God now sees me as perfect and complete in Christ.

You will not hear this taught in the organized church.

In regard to your question. It is more about whether or not your sins are forgiven. It is about whether or not you are "In Christ". To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.

Paul said, "That I might be found in Him (Christ) not having my own righteousness that is of the law (religion) but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

Good works and holy living do not justify or save. How should we now live? We are called to live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. A good Son does not need instructions. He knows what is required of him by his Father and lives accordingly. If you need rules, laws and religious instructions then this scripture is for you, 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

 

[jamie]

A good Son does not need instructions. He knows what is required of him by his Father and lives accordingly. If you need rules, laws and religious instructions then this scripture is for you, 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

Unfortunately, none of us is inherently "good" so we definitely need education as to God's expectations.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The only thing that is going to pass in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ. If God does not see you as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10, you will never see heaven.

Jesus was born under the law. Grew up under the law and died for the sins of humanity under the law. Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the law, Romans 4:10. All who are in Christ are free from the law, Romans 8:2.

Agreed.

To be free from the law is to be free from sin. I am no longer concerned with sin simply because God now sees me as perfect and complete in Christ.

That is an interesting interpretation you have there. But I think it contradicts with some of the verses that were in my last post, doesn't it? Like this one from John:

1 John 1:8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

How do you reconcile your thoughts above with that passage?

You will not hear this taught in the organized church.

Maybe because it is your interpretation?

In regard to your question. It is more about whether or not your sins are forgiven. It is about whether or not you are "In Christ". To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.

Ok. The Bible doesn't say it is "more about" this or that.

The Bible also nowhere says "plus nothing".

The Bible says: “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt. 6:14-15)

I think most Christians would agree that we have to have our sins forgiven to inherit eternal life.

The above passage shows that one of the things we better do if we want to be forgiven by God....is to forgive other people. It even says that if we do not forgive other people....God will not forgive us.

Paul said, "That I might be found in Him (Christ) not having my own righteousness that is of the law (religion) but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

The Bible doesn't put the word (religion) there where you did above. That is just your interpretation.

Good works and holy living do not justify or save.

Not by themselves, no. But as Matthew 6 shows above...if we don't forgive...we won't be forgiven. Forgiving others is necessary and probably qualifies as a good work or holy living.

How should we now live? We are called to live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. A good Son does not need instructions. He knows what is required of him by his Father and lives accordingly. If you need rules, laws and religious instructions then this scripture is for you, 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

As a child of God, I only need the rules, laws, and religious instructions that God gives us to live by.

Like....forgive other people or I won't forgive you.....for example.

Peace.

 

[marhig]

The only thing that is going to pass in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ. If God does not see you as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10, you will never see heaven.

That's true, but only if we lay down our lives and Christ is in us and his life is seen through us. We are to be be a willing, living sacrifice. It's not just believing in Jesus, but giving our life to God and the life of Christ within that's important, his righteousness has to be in us and through us. We can quote the scriptures all day, but if were not denying ourselves, baring our crosses and following Jesus, then his life won't be in us and he can't live through us. The only thing that will be seen by others is our flesh, and great swelling words. To live we need the holy spirit within, and if he's truly within us, we'll be decreasing and Christ will be increasing in our hearts and others will see a change in our lives.

Our old man must go and be put to death by the spirit, for Christ to live. If Christ isn't in us, and we're not living right before God, God just sees our flesh and sin. We are to stop wilfully sinning, obey God, and as bard said, be full of forgiveness for others then God will forgive us. If we have an unforgiving heart, we've got no hope of being forgiven. And I take that to myself also, because I did something yesterday and the day before that was wrong, and bard's post has just made me realise how wrong I was. So that was judgement for me and I know that I have to do what's right now. It was something that happened a long time ago, and I brought it all up and had a good moan to someone. If I truly forgive, then I need to put those feelings away and go to go to God and ask him to help me, because without him, I can't do it. But I know next time to bite my tongue, I'll have to try really hard and ask God to take it away there and then when it rises up in me again.

No wonder James said that our tongue is like a fire of iniquity, because with it we bring hell from the depths and bring it into the open. Jesus was right wasn't he? It's not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of a man that defiles him.

 

[Robert Pate]

marhig.

If you need rules, laws and religious instructions to live by, then it is apparent that you don't have the Holy Spirit, who is the Christians teacher and guide, John 16:13.

What you appear to have is religion. Being religious does not mean that you are a Christian.

In reading your post there is little to no reference to scripture and little to nothing about Christ. You seem to think that it is all about you and your attainment. This is very common with people that are religious. Its not your attainment that matters. What matters is Christ atonement. Has Jesus atoned for your sins? If he has then why are you so concerned about them?

Many of the apostles did not understand Paul's Gospel and justification by faith. Paul had to teach them the Gospel. The book of James was one of the first books of the Bible. James did not understand the Gospel, nor did Peter and John. I am sure that they learned it from Paul at a later date.

You would do well to learn what Christ accomplished in your name and on your behalf so that you can enter into his rest, Hebrews 4:10. As long as you believe that salvation is about you and what you have accomplished, you will continue to be religious.

 

[jamie]

Many of the apostles did not understand Paul's Gospel and justification by faith. Paul had to teach them the Gospel. The book of James was one of the first books of the Bible. James did not understand the Gospel, nor did Peter and John. I am sure that they learned it from Paul at a later date.

James, Peter, and John approved the gospel Paul and Barnabus preached and extended to them the right hand of fellowship.

Paul taught Jews that the purpose of the law was sanctification and not salvation, and he taught Gentiles they were welcome to become members in the church of God, that there were no ethnic differences in God's people.

All of Jesus' apostles were in agreement regarding their mission.

 

[Robert Pate]

James, Peter, and John approved the gospel Paul and Barnabus preached and extended to them the right hand of fellowship.

Paul taught Jews that the purpose of the law was sanctification and not salvation, and he taught Gentiles they were welcome to become members in the church of God, that there were no ethnic differences in God's people.

All of Jesus' apostles were in agreement regarding their mission.

The Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19 was only given to Paul, Galatians 1:11, 12. Paul had to teach it to the other apostles. When they heard it they believed it. However, some did not fully understand the ramifications of the Gospel and justification by faith.

We have to keep in mind that the Gospel is the end of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion. Paul apparently told them that their Jewish religion was obsolete and from now on they were no longer required to keep the law and follow the Jewish religion.

Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith is not the same as living by religion. Faith is always Christ centered. Religion is person centered. Religious people are preoccupied with themselves and their religion. There is a problem with this. We are all sinners. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only "In Christ". In the judgment if God does not see you "In Christ" you will perish.

 

[Robert Pate]

The Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19 was only given to Paul, Galatians 1:11, 12. Paul had to teach it to the other apostles. When they heard it they believed it. However, some did not fully understand the ramifications of the Gospel and justification by faith.

We have to keep in mind that the Gospel is the end of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion. Paul apparently told them that their Jewish religion was obsolete and from now on they were no longer required to keep the law and follow the Jewish religion.

Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith is not the same as living by religion. Faith is always Christ centered. Religion is person centered. Religious people are preoccupied with themselves and their religion. There is a problem with this. We are all sinners. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only "In Christ". In the judgment if God does not see you "In Christ" you will perish.

 

[jamie]

...only given to Paul, Galatians 1:11, 12.

But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (Galatians 1:11)​

That's right, Paul taught from the Hebrew scriptures which were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Jesus revealed the meaning of the scriptures to Paul just like he did to the other apostles.

Good point, Robert.

 

[Robert Pate]

But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (Galatians 1:11)​

That's right, Paul taught from the Hebrew scriptures which were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Jesus revealed the meaning of the scriptures to Paul just like he did to the other apostles.

Good point, Robert.

I think that you are confused. Paul did not get the Gospel from Hebrew scripture. He received the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ. "By the revelation of Jesus Christ" Galatians 1:12.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19 was only given to Paul, Galatians 1:11, 12. Paul had to teach it to the other apostles.

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the conversation, you bring up some very good points.

I don't always agree with you, though. For instance, Galatians 1:11-12 tells us that Paul received the Gospel message directly from Christ. But it doesn't say that that message was given only to Paul. It just doesn't say that. The 12 Apostles received the Gospel directly from Christ as well...when He walked the earth and taught them. This verse is making the point that Paul's Gospel does not conflict with the Apostles Gospel because they all received it from Christ.

We also know this is the case because in Galatians chapter 2 it shows that Paul went to Jerusalem to submit his Gospel message to the Church leaders to see if it was in line with what they were teaching. Galatians 2:2 says, "And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain."

Paul wants to make sure his gospel message squares with those who learned it directly from Jesus while He walked the earth. And they approved his message.

We kindof see a similar situation in Acts 15:2 when Paul and Barnabas debate about circumcision. So after they debate it...what do they do? They : "...they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question."

They decide to go and ask the apostles who walked with Jesus while He was on earth.

Paul checked his Gospel message out with the Apostles. He didn't teach it to the other Apostles. It is the same Gospel. That's why in Galatians 2:2 he says, "Lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain." He wanted to make sure it was in line with the Apostles' teaching.

When they heard it they believed it.

Peter preached the same Gospel that Paul does but Peter did so in Acts 2.


We have to keep in mind that the Gospel is the end of the Old Covenant, the law and the Jewish religion. Paul apparently told them that their Jewish religion was obsolete and from now on they were no longer required to keep the law and follow the Jewish religion.

Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith is not the same as living by religion. Faith is always Christ centered. Religion is person centered. Religious people are preoccupied with themselves and their religion. There is a problem with this. We are all sinners. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only "In Christ". In the judgment if God does not see you "In Christ" you will perish.

Do we have to forgive others? According to Matthew 6:14 I'd say yes. And that is a work. And God accepts that. I will grant you that that is a work done "in Christ" as we discussed somewhere else.

Peace.

 

[jamie]

I think that you are confused. Paul did not get the Gospel from Hebrew scripture. He received the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ. "By the revelation of Jesus Christ" Galatians 1:12.

Jesus had to reveal to Paul the scripture like he did his other apostles. (Acts 17:2)

Paul said, "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV)

Paul didn't expect people to take his word for it. (Acts 17:11)

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

marhig.

If you need rules, laws and religious instructions to live by, then it is apparent that you don't have the Holy Spirit, who is the Christians teacher and guide, John 16:13.

Your statement above cannot be found in the Bible. With all due respect, that is just your opinion. And I think it contradicts what the Bible does say about teachers:

1 Cor. 12:28:"And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues."

Eph. 4:11: "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,'

Matt. 28:19-20: "Go therefore[c] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen."

Sure the Holy Spirit teaches and guides. But it isn't just the Holy Spirit as the above verses show.

What you appear to have is religion. Being religious does not mean that you are a Christian.

I disagree. From what marhig has posted I would say they are Christian. They don't even qualify under your definitions of religion that you have stated elsewhere like being preoccupied with themselves and not God, etc.

In reading your post there is little to no reference to scripture and little to nothing about Christ.

Quoting Scripture and speaking about Christ doesn't make somebody a Christian. Remember that New Age book that I read that I told you about? Lots of Scripture quoting and talk about Christ in that. But all very out of context and definitely not from a Christian.

You seem to think that it is all about you and your attainment. This is very common with people that are religious. Its not your attainment that matters. What matters is Christ atonement. Has Jesus atoned for your sins? If he has then why are you so concerned about them?

I do not agree with your assessment of marhig.

Also, you didn't respond to the following verse. Would you please? How does it square with your idea that we shouldn't be concerned with sin? Please do not ignore it.

1 John 1: 8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Many of the apostles did not understand Paul's Gospel and justification by faith. Paul had to teach them the Gospel. The book of James was one of the first books of the Bible. James did not understand the Gospel, nor did Peter and John. I am sure that they learned it from Paul at a later date.

I disagree. Peter, for example, laid out the death, burial, and Resurrection of Jesus that saves pretty nicely in Acts 2.

You would do well to learn what Christ accomplished in your name and on your behalf so that you can enter into his rest, Hebrews 4:10. As long as you believe that salvation is about you and what you have accomplished, you will continue to be religious.

Did marhig say that salvation was about them and what they have accomplished? I don't think so.

Peace to you, Robert.

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus had to reveal to Paul the scripture like he did his other apostles. (Acts 17:2)

Paul said, "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV)

Paul didn't expect people to take his word for it. (Acts 17:11)

"But I certify you brethren, that the Gospel which was preached of me is NOT AFTER MAN. For I neither received it of man, NEITHER WAS I TAUGHT IT, but by the REVELATION of Jesus Christ" Galatians 1:11, 12.

Does that sound like Paul got the Gospel out of the scriptures to you?

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus had to reveal to Paul the scripture like he did his other apostles. (Acts 17:2)

Paul said, "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV)

Paul didn't expect people to take his word for it. (Acts 17:11)

Nope Paul received the Gospel to the Gentiles. Peter and the other Apostles taught the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Nope Paul received the Gospel to the Gentiles. Peter and the other Apostles taught the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Hi Bright Raven,

But it looks like Peter presents the same Gospel in Acts 2 as Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 15.

And he did that before Paul was even converted.

He presents the death, burial, and Resurrection of Jesus for salvation.

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

marhig.



Your statement above cannot be found in the Bible. With all due respect, that is just your opinion. And I think it contradicts what the Bible does say about teachers:

1 Cor. 12:28:"And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues."

Eph. 4:11: "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,'

Matt. 28:19-20: "Go therefore[c] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen."

Sure the Holy Spirit teaches and guides. But it isn't just the Holy Spirit as the above verses show.




I disagree. From what marhig has posted I would say they are Christian. They don't even qualify under your definitions of religion that you have stated elsewhere like being preoccupied with themselves and not God, etc.




Quoting Scripture and speaking about Christ doesn't make somebody a Christian. Remember that New Age book that I read that I told you about? Lots of Scripture quoting and talk about Christ in that. But all very out of context and definitely not from a Christian.



I do not agree with your assessment of marhig.

Also, you didn't respond to the following verse. Would you please? How does it square with your idea that we shouldn't be concerned with sin? Please do not ignore it.

1 John 1: 8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."



I disagree. Peter, for example, laid out the death, burial, and Resurrection of Jesus that saves pretty nicely in Acts 2.



Did marhig say that salvation was about them and what they have accomplished? I don't think so.

Peace to you, Robert.

I can't teach you the Gospel, nor can I show you all that the Gospel calls into question, which is religion. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to do that.

The Gospel that Peter preached on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2, was not the indepth Gospel that was revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ.

It is evident that Paul had some problems with the other apostles concerning the Gospel and justification by faith, Galatians 2:11. Why did James send men to spy on Peter? Galatians 2:12. And why did Paul and Barnabas have trouble introducing Gentile believers to the church in Jerusalem? Acts 15:1-22. It was all about the Jewish religion that Paul opposed.

The Gospel is the end of the Old Covenant, the law and religion. We are no longer required to live according to laws and rules, this is why Paul said "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. We live by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by faith in a religion. Religion leads you into yourself, who is a sinner. The Gospel leads us outside of ourselves to Christ and what he has accomplished on our behalf.

Religious people are not interested in Christ and his Gospel, they are interested in what they can do to make themselves pleasing to God, which is religion. I have said this before and I will say it again, God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the work and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in Jesus Christ. If anyone goes to heaven it will be on his merit and not our own.

If you want to continue to be religious and you find yourself in hell don't blame me, I tried to warn you.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Hey Robert,

Darn it...you did it again! You ignored (or forgot about) 1 John 1:8-10. I do wish you would let me know how that verse can be harmonized with your idea that we do not need to be concerned with sin.

I can't teach you the Gospel, nor can I show you all that the Gospel calls into question, which is religion. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to do that.

But somebody can teach me, right? I mean, Scripture records that there will be teachers and Jesus told the apostles to go out and "teach". You didn't really comment on how those verses can be harmonized with your idea that it is only the Holy Spirit who teaches. I wish you would.

The Gospel that Peter preached on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2, was not the indepth Gospel that was revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ.

I disagree. Same Gospel (the death, burial, and Resurrection of Jesus saves.) Just a different time and different audience. Definitely not a scripted presentation. But definitely the same message.

It is evident that Paul had some problems with the other apostles concerning the Gospel and justification by faith, Galatians 2:11. Why did James send men to spy on Peter? Galatians 2:12. And why did Paul and Barnabas have trouble introducing Gentile believers to the church in Jerusalem? Acts 15:1-22. It was all about the Jewish religion that Paul opposed.

First of all James didn't send spies. If he did they were pathetic spies because Peter changed his behavior when they arrived. In other words, Peter knew they were from James. Secondly, Peter got busted for acting like a hypocrite. He knew full well the gospel of justification by faith...but he acted differently. That's the definition of hypocrite. Knowing one thing, but acting contrary to it.

If Peter did not know about the gospel of justification then he could not have acted hypocritically. But the verse says he did:

" Now when Peter[a] had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

T

he Gospel is the end of the Old Covenant, the law and religion. We are no longer required to live according to laws and rules, this is why Paul said "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. We live by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by faith in a religion. Religion leads you into yourself, who is a sinner. The Gospel leads us outside of ourselves to Christ and what he has accomplished on our behalf.

Again, according to your own definition of religion, the vast majority of Christians are not religious.

Tell me, if we have faith in Christ...must we obey Him?

Religious people are not interested in Christ and his Gospel, they are interested in what they can do to make themselves pleasing to God, which is religion.

Look what Paul said in 1 Timothy 2: "Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

It is "good and acceptable" to God. That means "pleasing" to Him.

Colossians 1:10: "that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;"

1 John 3:22: "And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight."

You do have the book of 1 John in your Bible right? Because it seems I keep finding verses in 1 John that are in direct contradiction to what you say. I wish you would address those because maybe what you are saying is in harmony with those but I am just not really understanding what you are saying.

I have said this before and I will say it again, God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the work and the obedience of Jesus Christ.

Robert, maybe that is the problem. You keep saying that. But it is you saying it. Jesus never said that. God never said that. The Bible doesn't say that. You say that.

But I could be wrong. Does the Bible actually say that somewhere?

We are accepted only in Jesus Christ. If anyone goes to heaven it will be on his merit and not our own.

Yea and amen! I do enjoy it when we agree!

If you want to continue to be religious and you find yourself in hell don't blame me, I tried to warn you.

I just don't see biblical evidence for some of the things you say. I think we agree on alot. But not on some stuff.

God bless.