RELIGION: A Diversion Away From Christ and His Gospel

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Religion does not bring people to Christ and his Gospel, instead it diverts them away from Christ and his Gospel. Before you tune me out let me explain what I mean. Religion is very subjective, it tends to lead a person into themselves, who is a sinner. The Gospel is objective (outside of us) We had nothing to do with the Gospel because the Gospel is not about us. The Gospel concerns Jesus Christ, His life, His death, His atonement for sin, His resurrection and His return.

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus has justified and reconciled us to God the Father. It was Jesus that fulfilled God's holy law. It was Jesus that atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world.

"All things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them' 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus Christ, not the Catholic church, not Calvinism, not any religion, is the one that has reconciled us to God. Christ and Christ alone is God's reconciler. How did Jesus reconcile us to God? Did he do it by making us holy first? Absolutely not. Paul wrote,

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one, Romans 3:10. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

Man is born into the world as a sinner and lives his life before God as a sinner and dies as a sinner. This is what Paul meant when he wrote...

"Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin and so death passed upon ALL MEN, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12.

Religion falsely teaches that man's fallen nature can be rehabilitated and made pleasing to God by the works of the law. A work of the law is any religious thing that one might do, such as the confession of sins, holy living, tithing, witnessing, etc. All of these things are good to do, but do not justify. Paul said,

"Therefore by the deeds of the law (religion) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Even if we were able to keep the law, which no one can, you would still not be justified. The law which is religion does not justify. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners of which we are all one of. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the only one that God accepted into heaven. All of the rest of us die and go into the ground and wait for the judgment.

"And as it is appointed unto men to die, but after this the judgment" Hebrews 9:27.

Yes, your holy pious life that you thought pleased God will go into the ground and await the judgment. Does that frighten you? It should, especially if you are not "In Christ". No one is in heaven yet. No one will be admitted into heaven that does not posses the righteousness of Christ. Paul wrote,

"That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness that is of the law (religion) but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

Paul did not trust in his holy righteous life as a means of his salvation. Paul confessed that he was the "Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. The sin is WITHIN, therefore the salvation must be WITHOUT. Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.

"Many will say to me in that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, didn't we..." Matthew 7:22. Only to hear, "I never knew you, depart from me you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:23.

They thought that salvation was all about them, their pious lives, their works, their obedience, their religion. They went into the judgment and presented themselves to God for acceptance only to hear those dreadful words "Depart from me, I never knew you" Christ didn't know them because they had never called upon Christ to save them.

What does it mean to be "In Christ?" What it means is that you are trusting in His righteousness and in His atonement for your sins, Plus NOTHING. If you add anything to Christ and his Gospel it means that you are not trusting in Christ. It means that you are trusting in your religion.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Somebody said faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Are you hearing voices?

I don't listen to voices. I have the living word of God to read and believe.

The Bible teaches that faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Bible teaches that faith comes by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

Which gospel? Some people on TOL seem to believe there are multiple gospels.

Your gospel is antinomianism, good luck with that.

Someone once said rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I like that. But I think we should strive to really know ourselves. I think a lot of churches focus on fixing the problem but they don't really identify the problem accurately. Knowing ourselves is to know the state of our souls. I look at us all like glasses filled with filthy liquid. You will have some people going through their life spilling sin all over the place, wiping it up constantly with their prayers of repentance. Instead they should believe in the Christ Jesus so that the source is cleansed forever. Or rather come to the realization that Jesus has already cleansed them 2000 years ago. What is there to clean up after Christ has come? He rose from the dead after dying for sin he never did himself.

So, even if people keep the law wiping up after themselves. Or work a lot to give a good outer appearance. Without believing in Christ they will just be filled with sin with no ending.

Amen to that.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Which gospel? Some people on TOL seem to believe there are multiple gospels.

Your gospel is antinomianism, good luck with that.

Someone once said rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.

There is only one Gospel. The Kingdom Gospel was the good news that the King had arrived.

It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
There is only one Gospel. The Kingdom Gospel was the good news that the King had arrived.

It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

There are those who will claim that what Paul wrote to the Roman and the Corinthian congregations were part of Paul's gospel of grace. They believe that Paul's gospel supplanted the gospel of the kingdom even though the kingdom is based on God's grace.

No one can work or buy their way into God's kingdom.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
There are those who will claim that what Paul wrote to the Roman and the Corinthian congregations were part of Paul's gospel of grace. They believe that Paul's gospel supplanted the gospel of the kingdom even though the kingdom is based on God's grace.

No one can work or buy their way into God's kingdom.


The "Historical Gospel" is the Gospel of grace and is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Calvinist have a false Gospel. The Gospel of predestination.

Catholics have no Gospel. They believe that the Gospel is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners of which we are all one of. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ.

Hi Robert.

I enjoyed your original post but I wonder if I could ask you a couple of questions about what you wrote above.

If what you say is true and God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone:

First, can you direct me to a bible passage that says that please? Just curious.

Second, is there any point for anyone to even try to be obedient since God does not accept that anyways?

What do you think?

Thanks.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Hi Robert.

I enjoyed your original post but I wonder if I could ask you a couple of questions about what you wrote above.

If what you say is true and God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone:

First, can you direct me to a bible passage that says that please? Just curious.

Second, is there any point for anyone to even try to be obedient since God does not accept that anyways?

What do you think?

Thanks.
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV -
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV -

Hi patrick jane,

Ephesians 2:8-10 says: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

First of all, this passage says that we are saved by grace, through faith...and not by works. That part seems pretty plain.

But it does not say that God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone ever.

As a matter of fact, I threw in verse 10 which says we are saved "unto good works" (other translations say something like "for good works") that we may "walk in them". And it also says that God "ordained" it to be that way.

Why?

If what Robert said is true, God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone....so what then is the purpose of them and why would God ordain it to be that way?

Maybe Robert will have another verse that he was referring to because this one doesn't say that God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone. It just doesn't say that. It says that we are not saved by works.

Peace.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Ephesians 2:8-10 says: "For by grace are ye saved through faith...

Our faith is demonstrated by what we say and do. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

Christ is seeking those who will serve God in whatever he asks us to do.

Are you in?
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Our faith is demonstrated by what we say and do. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

Christ is seeking those who will serve God in whatever he asks us to do.

Are you in?

Hi Jamie.

Thanks for your thoughts. Sure! I'm in! I love Jesus!

But what you are saying here seems to contradict what Robert said about God not accepting the works or obedience of anyone.

You seem to be saying that our works (what we say and do) demonstrate our faith and that Christ is seeking those who will obey Him (serve God in whatever He asks us to do).

Robert said that God doesn't accept the works or obedience of anyone.

So are those two ideas compatible? I mean, why should we be obedient or serve God with good works (like you say) if God doesn't accept it anyways (like Robert said) ?

God Bless.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hi Jamie.

Thanks for your thoughts. Sure! I'm in! I love Jesus!

But what you are saying here seems to contradict what Robert said about God not accepting the works or obedience of anyone.

You seem to be saying that our works (what we say and do) demonstrate our faith and that Christ is seeking those who will obey Him (serve God in whatever He asks us to do).

Robert said that God doesn't accept the works or obedience of anyone.

So are those two ideas compatible? I mean, why should we be obedient or serve God with good works (like you say) if God doesn't accept it anyways (like Robert said) ?

Seven times in Revelation 2 & 3 Jesus tells his seven symbolic congregations that he knows their works.

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels and then He will reward each according to his works. (Matthew 16:27)​
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Hi patrick jane,

Ephesians 2:8-10 says: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

First of all, this passage says that we are saved by grace, through faith...and not by works. That part seems pretty plain.

But it does not say that God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone ever.

As a matter of fact, I threw in verse 10 which says we are saved "unto good works" (other translations say something like "for good works") that we may "walk in them". And it also says that God "ordained" it to be that way.

Why?

If what Robert said is true, God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone....so what then is the purpose of them and why would God ordain it to be that way?

Maybe Robert will have another verse that he was referring to because this one doesn't say that God does not accept the works or obedience of anyone. It just doesn't say that. It says that we are not saved by works.

Peace.
If you want your works accepted then they all are, good and bad. You can be judged under the law if you want to -

Romans 2:12 KJV -
 
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