RELIGION: A Diversion Away From Christ and His Gospel

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I have to disagree that no organized religions today believe the Gospel.

But it might depend on what you mean by "the Gospel". I'm not sure everyone means the same thing when they say that.

Could you tell me what you mean by "the Gospel"?

Peace.

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that justifies us and reconciles us to God the Father. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. We are the benefactors of the Gospel.

This work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf is ours by simple child like faith, plus NOTHING.

In the Gospel Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. God accepts the life of Jesus in our name and on our behalf. It was his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.

In the Gospel, He who had no sin becomes sin for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21. The Christian is no longer concerned about sin because sin has been dealt with, Romans 6:7.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

Because of the work of Jesus Christ we now stand before God as complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Our rest is in Jesus Christ and in what he has accomplished on our behalf, Hebrews 4:10.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
And as far as the money goes....well, I can't speak to all denominations but it seems to me that the really generous church-goers will tithe 10%. Some people maybe more. But statistically, depending on where you are in the world, alot of believers give less than 10% to their church. Like around 3 or 4 or maybe 5%. And most churches can do nothing if people who attend them say....Hey, I'm only gonna give 1%. or 0%. What can the church do about that.?

What percentage did Jesus tithe?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Our rest is in Jesus Christ and in what he has accomplished on our behalf, Hebrews 4:10.

Good point, Robert, you sound like you are part of the symbolic Sardis group.

And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, "These things says He who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars, I know your works that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful and strengthen the things which remain that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God." (Revelation 3:1-2)​

It's a good thing Christ will do our work for us. Paul should have just retired and rested instead of suffering abuse for nothing.

Maybe Paul thought he would be rewarded for his service to Christ.

Go back to sleep, Robert, you need your rest, all the work has been done and everyone is now saved. Let's have a party.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that justifies us and reconciles us to God the Father. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. We are the benefactors of the Gospel.

This work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf is ours by simple child like faith, plus NOTHING.

In the Gospel Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. God accepts the life of Jesus in our name and on our behalf. It was his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.

In the Gospel, He who had no sin becomes sin for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21. The Christian is no longer concerned about sin because sin has been dealt with, Romans 6:7.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

Because of the work of Jesus Christ we now stand before God as complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Our rest is in Jesus Christ and in what he has accomplished on our behalf, Hebrews 4:10.


Everyone is not saved. The only ones that will be saved are those who believe that Jesus has saved them from their sins.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The lost go to hell. That was God's Son dying on the cross for your sins.

Reject that and maybe you deserve to go to hell.

I like to look before I leap, where is this hell that I may go and check it out.

I'm not big on cold weather so I hope it is warm there.
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that justifies us and reconciles us to God the Father. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. We are the benefactors of the Gospel.

This work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf is ours by simple child like faith, plus NOTHING.

Hey Robert,

Lots of organized churches teach everything that you have stated in this post. So lots of organized churches must teach the Gospel as you have defined it.

I am curious about your caps above where you say "faith, plus NOTHING", though. I haven't found a verse that says that in Scripture anywhere. But you probably know your Bible better than I do.

Could you please tell me where that is stated? Thanks. Just curious.

In the Gospel Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. God accepts the life of Jesus in our name and on our behalf. It was his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.

In the Gospel, He who had no sin becomes sin for us, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Amen, Brother Robert! And lots of organized churches teach all of that.

The Christian is no longer concerned about sin because sin has been dealt with, Romans 6:7.

I don't think so on that last point of yours. I think in order to see the Christian's attitude towards sin, we should probably look at more than just one verse about it. Don' you? For example, in 1 John 1:8-10 John says,

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (KJV)

John is using the word "we" there so he is including himself as part of that.

The verses above seem to indicate that a Christian still needs to be concerned about sin, so that we can confess them, so that He will forgive them.


In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

Because of the work of Jesus Christ we now stand before God as complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Our rest is in Jesus Christ and in what he has accomplished on our behalf, Hebrews 4:10.

Again, lots of organized churches teach this.

So it seems by your definition of what the Gospel is, lots of organized churches teach it.

Peace.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Hey Robert,

Lots of organized churches teach everything that you have stated in this post. So lots of organized churches must teach the Gospel as you have defined it.

I am curious about your caps above where you say "faith, plus NOTHING", though. I haven't found a verse that says that in Scripture anywhere. But you probably know your Bible better than I do.

Could you please tell me where that is stated? Thanks. Just curious.

Amen, Brother Robert! And lots of organized churches teach all of that.



I don't think so on that last point of yours. I think in order to see the Christian's attitude towards sin, we should probably look at more than just one verse about it. Don' you? For example, in 1 John 1:8-10 John says,

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (KJV)

John is using the word "we" there so he is including himself as part of that.

The verses above seem to indicate that a Christian still needs to be concerned about sin, so that we can confess them, so that He will forgive them.




Again, lots of organized churches teach this.

So it seems by your definition of what the Gospel is, lots of organized churches teach it.

Peace.


I have never heard of a church that teaches the life of Christ for the believer. What they teach is that you must become like Jesus, which promotes legalism.

If it is faith and the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel. Jesus doesn't need our help to save us. The work of Christ on our behalf is sufficient for our salvation.

Many of the apostles did not understand Paul's Gospel and justification by faith. They had to be taught it by Paul. Peter, James and John did not fully understand the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law.
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
I have never heard of a church that teaches the life of Christ for the believer.

You may need to explain what you mean by that in more detail to me then. Because they way you explained it a post or two ago...well, I don't know of any church that doesn't teach that.

What they teach is that you must become like Jesus, which promotes legalism.

Wouldn't imitating Jesus promote holiness? Obedience? Love?

Didn't Paul say we were to imitate Jesus? 1 Corinthians 11:1: "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ." (NKJV)

Are we to ignore what Paul says here?

If it is faith and the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel.

I understand that that is what you believe....but I do not see a scripture verse that says that. Is there a Scripture verse that says that somewhere?

Can I ask you a basic question?

Do I have to have my sins forgiven to get to Heaven?

Jesus doesn't need our help to save us. The work of Christ on our behalf is sufficient for our salvation.

Amen. But He needs something from us doesn't He? I mean it can't just be Jesus did it all and we all do absolutely nothing...can it?

Many of the apostles did not understand Paul's Gospel and justification by faith. They had to be taught it by Paul. Peter, James and John did not fully understand the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law.

How do you know this? Just curious.

Peace.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Hey Robert,

Lots of organized churches teach everything that you have stated in this post. So lots of organized churches must teach the Gospel as you have defined it.

I am curious about your caps above where you say "faith, plus NOTHING", though. I haven't found a verse that says that in Scripture anywhere. But you probably know your Bible better than I do.

Could you please tell me where that is stated? Thanks. Just curious.




I have never heard of a church that teaches the life of Christ for the believer. What they teach is that you must become like Jesus, which promotes legalism.

If it is faith and the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel. Jesus doesn't need our help to save us. The work of Christ on our behalf is sufficient for our salvation.

Many of the apostles did not understand Paul's Gospel and justification by faith. They had to be taught it by Paul. Peter, James and John did not fully understand the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law.

Peter, James and John understood the gospel perfectly, they walked with Jesus and we're then filled with the holy spirit, just by saying that they didn't understand the gospel, means that you are dismissing Christ's apostles and part of his gospel, they didn't have to be taught by Paul at all, they were all taught of the holy spirit. By the way, where does it say faith plus nothing? It's faith plus everything, giving all our lives to God. We are to become living sacrifices. If we love God and follow Jesus then we are to sacrifice our lives for God, there's no doing nothing about it. And if we don't become like Jesus, then people won't see Christ through us, the holy spirit should be putting our flesh to death so that we become more and more like Jesus every day!

So you teach that people just live their life and carry on regardless because Jesus had done it all! That's not the truth. We are to turn from sin. Nowhere is the Bible does it say that our future sins are forgiven and that we are going to heaven regardless of what we do. We are to turn from sinning once we believe in Jesus and turn to God and obey him.

And it's not just those who don't know Christ that are judged, but all of us.

2 Corinthians 5

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Also, the works Paul is talking about is the works that we do for ourselves and for the glory of men where we help people for our gain or for people to say how nice we are and God isn't in it anywhere. And if we're boasting about our works then we're far from God anyway. The works that James talks of are the works for God, where we do it because God moves our hearts to do so, they would be things that we would never do in the flesh, and we don't tell the whole world but keep to to ourselves, and we don't take praise either, because we know that without God they wouldn't be done. We glorify God by these works. Because without God, we wouldn't do it.

It's like giving a fiver our of thousands of pounds. That's easy, and we'd feel good, but God would have you give out of your last tenner, and give half, give a fiver to someone in need who had nothing and keep a fiver for yourself. This our flesh wouldn't do, because we would put our ourselves first.

Matthew 6

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

There are works to do, without works, our faith is dead. And Jesus didn't tell us to deny ourselves, and take up our cross for nothing! This is also a part of the gospel. And we are obey him. And to deny ourselves is to deny our flesh and bare our cross whatever it may be in each of our lives, and follow Jesus and keep our faith in God to the end.

If we love God, we'll partake in the sufferings of Christ and deny our flesh, if we don't deny our flesh, then others can't Christ through us, because we'll be living to please ourselves and not God. We are to deny ourselves and turn from sin. Jesus hasn't done it all, and it clearly says in the Bible that he came as an example for us to follow. So we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only and we are to walk the walk!

Matthew 16

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

1 John 2

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 Peter 2

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1 Peter 4

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Philippians 1

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Romans 8

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

All the apostles, including Paul preached the same gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ!
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Peter, James and John understood the gospel perfectly, they walked with Jesus and we're then filled with the holy spirit, just by saying that they didn't understand the gospel, means that you are dismissing Christ's apostles and part of his gospel, they didn't have to be taught by Paul at all, they were all taught of the holy spirit. By the way, where does it say faith plus nothing? It's faith plus everything, giving all our lives to God. We are to become living sacrifices. If we love God and follow Jesus then we are to sacrifice our lives for God, there's no doing nothing about it. And if we don't become like Jesus, then people won't see Christ through us, the holy spirit should be putting our flesh to death so that we become more and more like Jesus every day!

So you teach that people just live their life and carry on regardless because Jesus had done it all! That's not the truth. We are to turn from sin. Nowhere is the Bible does it say that our future sins are forgiven and that we are going to heaven regardless of what we do. We are to turn from sinning once we believe in Jesus and turn to God and obey him.

And it's not just those who don't know Christ that are judged, but all of us.

2 Corinthians 5

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Also, the works Paul is talking about is the works that we do for ourselves and for the glory of men where we help people for our gain or for people to say how nice we are and God isn't in it anywhere. And if we're boasting about our works then we're far from God anyway. The works that James talks of are the works for God, where we do it because God moves our hearts to do so, they would be things that we would never do in the flesh, and we don't tell the whole world but keep to to ourselves, and we don't take praise either, because we know that without God they wouldn't be done. We glorify God by these works. Because without God, we wouldn't do it.

It's like giving a fiver our of thousands of pounds. That's easy, and we'd feel good, but God would have you give out of your last tenner, and give half, give a fiver to someone in need who had nothing and keep a fiver for yourself. This our flesh wouldn't do, because we would put our ourselves first.

Matthew 6

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

There are works to do, without works, our faith is dead. And Jesus didn't tell us to deny ourselves, and take up our cross for nothing! This is also a part of the gospel. And we are obey him. And to deny ourselves is to deny our flesh and bare our cross whatever it may be in each of our lives, and follow Jesus and keep our faith in God to the end.

If we love God, we'll partake in the sufferings of Christ and deny our flesh, if we don't deny our flesh, then others can't Christ through us, because we'll be living to please ourselves and not God. We are to deny ourselves and turn from sin. Jesus hasn't done it all, and it clearly says in the Bible that he came as an example for us to follow. So we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only and we are to walk the walk!

Matthew 16

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

1 John 2

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 Peter 2

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1 Peter 4

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Philippians 1

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Romans 8

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

All the apostles, including Paul preached the same gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ!

Hey marhig,

I agree with what you say above. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.

Just as an FYI, they way you quoted my post as the one you were responding to...it looks like all of that was made by me. Actually, the top half was me and the bottom half was from RobertPate.

I was conversing with him about some of that.

No biggie. I just don't want to take credit for the bottom half of the quote that you responded to because that wasn't me.

Peace.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Hey marhig,

I agree with what you say above. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.

Just as an FYI, they way you quoted my post as the one you were responding to...it looks like all of that was made by me. Actually, the top half was me and the bottom half was from RobertPate.

I was conversing with him about some of that.

No biggie. I just don't want to take credit for the bottom half of the quote that you responded to because that wasn't me.

Peace.
Oops sorry, I was responding to the bottom half. So I wasn't responding to you but that post was in response to what Robert said, sorry again

P.s. I'm glad we agree. :)

:thumb:
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
If you don't have faith in Christ and his Gospel you will be very religious.

Religious people are concerned about their sins and they probably should be because they are still in them.

We who believe the Gospel, believe that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. And that we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

It is not until you are free from sin that you will be able to live above it.
 
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