Give me biblical support for Christmas.

[Town Heretic]

Would it be an obsession of me to notice you are assuming I am not saved? A common Christian judgment. I guess I am obsessed with all the ungodly nuances Christians always assume.

You're making part of that problem though. You keep speaking of Christians from a separate POV. Otherwise you'd be better off saying "some of us" or adding the "as a Christian", that sort of thing. Not doing that invites confusion on the point.

Worse when you couple it with this sort of thing:

I wonder what its like to be deceived into believing that you are anointed and the people of God?

 

[Mickiel]

You're making part of that problem though. You keep speaking of Christians from a separate POV. Otherwise you'd be better off saying "some of us" or adding the "as a Christian", that sort of thing. Not doing that invites confusion on the point.

Worse when you couple it with this sort of thing:

I am not a Christian, I am separate from them. And I do wonder what its like to think your the anointed of God and nobody else is.

 

[steko]

I am not a Christian, I am separate from them. And I do wonder what its like to think your the anointed of God and nobody else is.

Who is it that you believe is claiming to be the anointed of GOD?

 

[Town Heretic]

I am not a Christian, I am separate from them.

Then his assumption was correct that you're not of the Body and you should understand that within the Christian faith we have two camps, those who are saved by grace through the unmerited sacrifice of Jesus Christ and those in need of that redemption.

And I do wonder what its like to think your the anointed of God and nobody else is.

If I understand you, it's as simple as believing Christ is who he said he was and meant what he said about what that means. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 For most of Christendom it means we should bring that truth to as many as might be saved, hopefully in the spirit of love and with a measure of humility born of the understanding that there is nothing in a man that merits grace.

I had a conversation with a pagan recently. She asked me why I was a Christian and I said, "As I experienced my conversion it reduces to: He called/I answered. He offered and I said yes. Nothing more complicated than that, life altering as it was."

Her immediate response was, "Well that's grandiose, isn't it?"

And I said, "If you insist on seeing it that way I suppose it has to be."

Or, we bring our own context for judgment and it's often as much how we choose to see a thing as how the thing is to be seen.

 

[God's Truth]

I am not a Christian, I am separate from them. And I do wonder what its like to think your the anointed of God and nobody else is.

Why don't you find out for yourself?

 

[clefty]

He'll be sleeping a long time.

Maybe while he's sleeping he can produce a commandment not to have a party with loved ones at Christmastime.

Here is just one but if he dreams it I think it may be more of a nightmare if he has any typical Christian "feel good, love everybody, go alone to get along, ecumenical, we are under grace now, nothing really matters...or is prevented us..."

Deuteronomy 20:

"As for the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is going to give you as an inheritance, you must not allow a single living thing to survive. 17 Instead you must utterly annihilate them – the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites – just as the Lord your God has commanded you, 18 so that they cannot teach you all the abhorrent ways they worship their gods, causing you to sin against the Lord your God."

It's not so much that it is a war for resources or space or bragging rights even but look at the utter lack of trust the Almight One has for these chosen ones remaining faithful to Him despite all He already has done for them.

He doubts He can win their undivided attention or affection. I mean they solemnly swore fidelity right? They promised to obey and were promised to be blessed because it was all predestined even right?...lol

Yet here He is having them break one of His commandments because He told them to in order to prevent them from breaking another one by their own free will...kill so you don't make idols...

I hope you get a batter sense for how jealous of Father we have...

What is it about humans that demands such drastic action to keep them focused on Him even after all He has done for them.

What does our Creator know about our hearts and minds that forces Him to make it seemingly impossible to learn another way...

As it turns out they still learned another way...and still assimilated other customs and traditions...

I can imagine it went something like this "Awww moishe be a bubbala...this figurine only makes the place look nicer"

Or "Oy veh!! we aren't supposed to celebrate this!...lets just rename it and give it a change of meaning"

lol...

 

[Mickiel]

Then his assumption was correct that you're not of the Body and you should understand that within the Christian faith we have two camps, those who are saved by grace through the unmerited sacrifice of Jesus Christ and those in need of that redemption.



If I understand you, it's as simple as believing Christ is who he said he was and meant what he said about what that means. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 For most of Christendom it means we should bring that truth to as many as might be saved, hopefully in the spirit of love and with a measure of humility born of the understanding that there is nothing in a man that merits grace.

I had a conversation with a pagan recently. She asked me why I was a Christian and I said, "As I experienced my conversion it reduces to: He called/I answered. He offered and I said yes. Nothing more complicated than that, life altering as it was."

Her immediate response was, "Well that's grandiose, isn't it?"

And I said, "If you insist on seeing it that way I suppose it has to be."

Or, we bring our own context for judgment and it's often as much how we choose to see a thing as how the thing is to be seen.

There you go , claiming I am not in the body of Christ , only because I am not a Christian. You can't see how prejudiced that is ,but your not supposed to see that. Your not able to. Christianity is a church of God , but its a church in deception. In a fallen state , but they don't know it. The first church "Became Christians", but they were already believers first. Soon after they became Christians ,soon after Jesus left earth, soon after all the Apostles died off , the Christian church absorbed too much paganism and philosophy, and less than 100 years after Christ , the church has been in deception ever since.

Of course Christians can't see this , deceived people don't know their deceived. That's why you think your number one and anointed and everyone else is not. Your living on a historical past that is long gone. A dead reputation in heaven, but alive on earth ; the earth thinks your the people of God in good standing with God ,but your not. The true first fruits of God , his last church on earth is yet to come. Christianity is the Laodecian church, or the seed of it. That is what I think.

The first love of the church was universal salvation , Christianity lost that first love , they don't even believe it now.

But that's another thread.

 

[Mickiel]

Why don't you find out for yourself?

I already know.

 

[Tambora]

Who is it that you believe is claiming to be the anointed of GOD?

He's dreaming again.

 

[steko]

Of course Christians can't see this , deceived people don't know their deceived. . That is what I think.

.

By that axiom, perhaps you are deceived and don't know it.

 

[clefty]

Then show by the bible itself that having a party on Dec 25th is pagan.

It just bans assimilation of another's people's customs...

I mean don't you think He knows what is best for us? After everything He created for us He said it was good...later He even added seven festivals to help clarify the game and score all for our understanding and improvement...no need to add anything...especially something He detests no matter how well you rebrand it...

The bible bans assimilation not celebrating something on December 25...you would have to look at history to find out why the biblical bans are so relevant...

Look up December itself...named after the 10th month...Deci...of what? Well it echoes back to the original biblical calendar which begins the year in the spring...

So already you are off down another path...and while you walk it you will soon hear the pagans celebrating their solstice to break up the long winter nights with song dance wine food sex etc...it's a blast ya dig?

Read up on mithra and its darkness conquering sun god born on yup dec. 25...

Sorry you have to read so much think critically and well reason...but test all things and hold on to what is good...good being Godly if it even matters to you...

 

[Mickiel]

By that axiom, perhaps you are deceived and don't know it.

Perhaps, yes.

 

[God's Truth]

I already know.

You already know what? Why are you asking what it is like to be anointed if you already know?

 

[Tambora]

the pagans celebrating their solstice to break up the long winter nights with song dance wine food sex etc...it's a blast ya dig?

Sounds like you are familiar with those type parties.
I've never been to a party like that and won't be going to any party like that.

 

[steko]

Perhaps, yes.

A question we should all humbly consider!

:thumb:

 

[Tambora]

There you go , claiming I am not in the body of Christ , only because I am not a Christian. You can't see how prejudiced that is ,but your not supposed to see that. Your not able to. Christianity is a church of God , but its a church in deception. In a fallen state , but they don't know it. The first church "Became Christians", but they were already believers first. Soon after they became Christians ,soon after Jesus left earth, soon after all the Apostles died off , the Christian church absorbed too much paganism and philosophy, and less than 100 years after Christ , the church has been in deception ever since.

Of course Christians can't see this , deceived people don't know their deceived. That's why you think your number one and anointed and everyone else is not. Your living on a historical past that is long gone. A dead reputation in heaven, but alive on earth ; the earth thinks your the people of God in good standing with God ,but your not. The true first fruits of God , his last church on earth is yet to come. Christianity is the Laodecian church, or the seed of it. That is what I think.

The first love of the church was universal salvation , Christianity lost that first love , they don't even believe it now.

But that's another thread.

What an imaginative cliffhanger.
I can't wait for the sequel!

 

[clefty]

"Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth."
Exodus 23:13

"Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee." Deut.4:23

"And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place." Deut.12:3


"Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing." Deut. 7:26

Merely bringing it into your house curses you...not even bowing or worshipping it...just bringing it into your house...

 

[Town Heretic]

There you go , claiming I am not in the body of Christ , only because I am not a Christian.

And if you say, "No, I do not eat meat of any kind" I'm going to say you're a vegetarian in any meaningful sense of the word.

You can't see how prejudiced that is

Because it isn't. It's simply in line with definition. Now you can eat meat and call yourself a vegetarian, but you shouldn't call people prejudiced if they note you have a problem on the point.

,but your not supposed to see that. Your not able to. Christianity is a church of God , but its a church in deception.

If you tried to shave yourself with Occam's razor you'd be dead in a minute. What should concern you is this: across the reach of human history since Jesus walked the earth the faithful who adhere to his teaching and lay claim to him as God have carried an understanding of what that means. That orthodoxy defines that faith. Within it is the salvific, that which must be claimed to make the important, essential part of the Venn Diagram, whatever our differences on days and dances, wine and song. If you stand outside of the orthodoxy then you stand somewhere else. It isn't prejudiced to note it. It's necessary.

In a fallen state , but they don't know it. The first church "Became Christians", but they were already believers first. Soon after they became Christians ,soon after Jesus left earth, soon after all the Apostles died off , the Christian church absorbed too much paganism and philosophy, and less than 100 years after Christ , the church has been in deception ever since.

Here's another way of looking at it: either most of the world that loves Christ, is as motivated, earnest and thoughtful in their deliberations generation unto generation as anyone else have got it essentially right or you do.

Of course Christians can't see this , deceived people don't know their deceived.

All the more reason for you to consider what I just wrote and think about that razor.

That's why you think your number one and anointed and everyone else is not.

No, that's how you keep trying to judge and sell it. What I've said and what Christian orthodoxy speaks to is very different. We're the recipients of unmerited grace. That's not being "number one" in any egotistical sense. In fact, you have to ignore that point, as you have, to continue to push the point you do here.

Your living on a historical past that is long gone.

Well, if the past wasn't gone we'd be all out of elbow room.

A dead reputation in heaven, but alive on earth ; the earth thinks your the people of God in good standing with God ,but your not.

Another danger sign is when you find yourself complaining about people who you say think they're number one, then immediately judge them inferring that you must be.

The true first fruits of God , his last church on earth is yet to come. Christianity is the Laodecian church, or the seed of it. That is what I think. The first love of the church was universal salvation , Christianity lost that first love , they don't even believe it now.

Christ's commission rejects that claim. If there is nothing to do there is no need to send your beloved out to become martyrs, that suffering and death serving a moot point.

 

[clefty]

The point being that the absence of promotion isn't evidence of proscription.

(uh oh clefty ya got ya one of dem fancy talkin' ones...) lol

In this case proscription is abundantly clear...the gist of it being don't do what others do to worship theirs their way...or use it to worship the True One falsely...

I want to make this clear...if indeed we knew when Yahushua was born than by all means let us celebrate and worship and create new ways of doing it...and even if others make the day about consumerism and crass commercialism so what, I know the real reason for the season...

However we do NOT know when He was born and we have had to take another party over and make it ours...

Ask yourself this: why didn't the church celebrate His birth in November or October? Or in the spring? Because it wanted to take over the solstice celebrations which were an easier fit to assimilate...parties were already happening to celebrate the long winter nights and the return of the conquering Sun...oh and a son born to virgin mother that wasn't Christian...it was Mithra...

So it is NOT about "it ain't no commandment durn it" nor is it that Christians celebrate His birth at all nor is about the way we do it...it's that we learned another way to worship from another form of worship to a different god not our own...we took the date and so many of the symbols and customs and just ignored all the very proscriptions against doing so...

And to add injury to insult we are now offended that it's all about crass consumerism and commercializations LOL...that is what it ALWAYS WAS...eat drink and be merry...for tomorrow it's cold and dark still...here's a gift

We don't know exactly when He was born He didn't tell us it wasn't important so why not celebrate it away from the heathens and their way and time and do it in July or something...you know the 4th...with bottle rockets...

There's a profound difference between the question of whether we're commanded to (we aren't) or whether we are forbidden (we aren't) which seemed the point of inquiry here.

duh...and must certainly we are forbidden to...specifically at the Jerusalem council it was upheld even clean meat offered to idols was to be rejected...impossible for me to imagine that early church celebrating with CHristmas Ham, a decked out tree and a man in red handing out wordly loot...

The church at Ephesus was specifically commended for its HATRED of ALL things Nike the god of victory...whose works He detested...hmmmm Saint Nikeclaus? Flying through the air...but the other churches in revelations were already struggling with idolatry and false worship...

They were warned to repent to turn back to the first love NOT given an told "it's ok guys, it ain't proscribed in the scriptures, besides compromise and go along to get along is one way of spreading the gospel and true worship." HARDLY.

Supra.

wut is?...

No, what I want is an honest examination of the question and to offer one earnest response. I don't alter scripture. I'm fairly sure we're commanded not to, even in the service of a snarky point.

well then...don't add or take away-just don't alter scripture...just read it and obey...

some here insist it's fine for one to choose a day and another a different day and by that mean to reference Romans 14 which is about choosing a day to fast to alter it to mean Christmas now...or Sabbath on other occasions...awfully convenient text poor Paul is twisted into...

But it remains...no command to celebrate His bday...but certainly plenty to prevent false worship...and anything less than the actual date is false...

Jews would even celebrate Passover twice in a season in diaspora when travelers would advise necessary changes to the calendation...this practice was mocked even by Constantine who preferred efficiency and convenience over accuracy...fixing his own calendar above the Creator's...man's tradition certainly > God's commandments...

But you know all this I am sure...

You might have an astigmatism. What I'm actually saying is as clear as your pointless hostility in relation to it. There is what we are commanded to do, which nothing I've written suggests is the case here (in fact I've noted we are not) and there is what we are permitted.

I guess what we are permitted is permitted by the Spirit for us to see...

Precedent for what? Christ could have come into the world without notice. He didn't. If the gospel authors feel comfortable speaking to that, I don't know why we should be less bold or read something nefarious into it. And you haven't given me a single reason to think differently, except of you and your methodology.

I am more and more inclined to believe the church actually knows the date He was born and merely prefers to continue its deception...Satan uses those willing to not only counterfeit but continue the deception...

His resurrection was also bold and no less without notice but here again NO command or instruction to celebrate it beyond first fruit festival...certainly not to incorporate again, pagan rituals and customs on yes again, a date different than the actual known date...even the Eastern Orthodox have the common courtesy to wait every year for the Jews to have Rome kill Him again to celebrate His resurrection...

In no particular order, I still haven't suggested he asked us to or commanded it and I refer you to my last point and the scriptural note of the birth. If it didn't trouble those entrusted with the narrative of Christ it doesn't trouble me. If it bothers you, by all means refrain.

by now know what all is included in scripture is not meant to be celebrated...I mean we don't eat pork in celebration of the escaping demons choosing it too do we?

Not even a little true given, for the who knows how many times now, I've been clear its celebration isn't a commandment and there's nothing false in it that can't be set at the feet of the gospels. You might want to bone up on Titus.

Titus the Roman who began the assimilation of these superstious Jews...or Titus of

"To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work."

Funny how the defiled still profess to know God...but they are disobedient...

 

[clefty]

In my view its not wrong to throw a party on Dec. the 25th , nor is that pagan, but when you make that party out to be a biblical event that God has sanctioned or that Jesus has died for ,now it gets serious.

I mean I know you want to argue and debate this, I know how you see this ; I know to you it means nothing.

But Christianity is getting dumped on by satan ; jumped on by satan. Targeted by satan.

https://www.ucg.org/vertical-thought/paganism-in-christianity

It being Dec. 25th is exactly pagan and my problem with it...the church could have chosen any other day but chose a birthday to another god...and began to assimilate another way to worship with false worship...