Will Only A Few Human Beings Be Saved? No.

[JAGG]

I follow the Scriptures and not supposed experts.

Lilstu,

♦ All sincere born again Christians are convinced they follow the Scriptures.

♦ You don't have to "follow" the experts in order to give them respect and give their studies a respectful hearing.

♦ That doesn't mean you have to agree with them. They might be wrong. I might be wrong. You might be wrong.

♦ The only Person we know that is never wrong is the Lord Jesus.

♦ But until we can talk to Him face to face about what "leaven" meant in Mt. 13:33 we have to do the best we can to decide what is the best interpretation of that verse.

♦ And to do this we read and study Biblical Commentaries, which is no different than sitting in a Sunday School Class.

I have shown you Scriptural evidence that leaven is bad and you prefer to believe supposed experts rather than what Scripture says.

♦ But we still disagree on the meaning of "leaven" in Mt. 13:33

♦ You failed to convince me. I failed to convince you.

♦ That's does not mean that either of us are bad people. Its just means that, at this point, we disagree. That's all it means. Nobody is trying to lead people down into Hell merely because they believe that the Christian Church of the Lord Jesus is going to be Victorious as history unfolds.

♦ Nobody is trying to "lead people down to the pit" just because they believe the word "leaven" in Mt. 13:33 represents the gospel that very gradually Christianizes the entire world just as Jesus said "Go make disciples of all nations."

♦ We can disagree as Christian brothers and as friends over points like this one.

Jesus' parables in Matthew 13 clearly reveal the the corruption of his church.

♦ Well, its clear we don't agree on that. You can find some "experts" that agree with your position, but I am not going to tell you that they are "leading people to Hell" just because they believe that the "leaven" in Mt. 13:33 represents corruption.

As for the supposed experts, they get paid to write books and they have to expect people to disagree without being "thin skinned" and taking offense if they are called out on their writings.

♦ Are you serious? Do you familiar at all with Matthew Henry? Albert Barnes? Adam Clarke? Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield?

♦ They are NOT "experts" that can be "called out" simply because they disagree with you or me (or anybody else.)

♦ Btw, all of them have been dead for a long time.

♦ But they are highly respected orthodox Bible commentators throughout Christendom and it ought NEVER to be said of them that they are "leading people to the pit."

♦ These most excellent Christian scholars simply disagreed with you on one point: does the "leaven" of Mt.13:33 represent the good or does it represent corruption.?

♦ May blessings be upon you

(Btw, I disagreed with you throughout that entire post up there, but never one time did I insult you or try to discredit you.)

 

[JAGG]

The Little Flock

By "little flock" do you mean these people?

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed
Genesis 26:4

Note: The text says as numerous as the stars in the sky, it does NOT say as numerous as what the people of that time thought was the number of stars in the sky. What they thought was irrelevant.

and these people?

"The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore."
Genesis 22:15-17

and these people?

"And so from this one man, [Abraham] and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore
Hebrews 11:12

and these people?

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
Rev. 7:9-10
Romans 4:1617

The little flock . . .

...the elect...are not corrupted but the counterfeit church is corrupt.

Could you identify the "counterfeit church"? Who are they exactly?

I can identify what I would call a counterfeit church. I would say that any group of people claiming to be Christians who did not believe in the Lord Jesus as their Savior and who were not making a sincere effort to obey the Lord's teachings, would be counterfeit Christians. Moreover, in my view they would need to be orthodox in their doctrines, that is, that would need to believe the major doctrines of creedal Christendom for example here is one such creed:

The Apostle's Creed.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.


I posted The Apostle's Creed as just an example of the kinds of doctrines one would need to believe in order to NOT be a counterfeit Christian.

Btw, do you agree with everything in The Apostles Creed up there?

 

[Lilstu]

Dear jagg,
In explained already that being as numerous as stars is only about 4 million people which is a very little flock over 2000 years.

The God of the Bible promised Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the Heavens. [I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed Genesis 26:4 see also Genesis 15:5, Genesis 22:17, Exodus 32:13]
After Israel was in slavery to Pharaoh, the Exodus from Egypt, and the forty years in the wilderness, Moses declared that God had made Israel as numerous as the stars in Heaven. [The Lord your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are this day like the stars of heaven in number. Deuteronomy 1:10,see also Deuteronomy 10:22]
Moses declared that God’s promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars had now been fulfilled.

So how many people comprised the nation of Israel? How many stars in the Heavens did the OT writers think there were?

After the Exodus from Egypt, Moses and the leaders took a census of the men over 20 years of age who were fit for war, and there were 603,550 men. [So all the numbered men of the sons of Israel by their fathers’ households, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war in Israel, even all the numbered men were 603,550. Numbers 1:45-46]
Just prior to the entrance into “the promised land,” when Moses declared that God’s promise to make Israel as numerous as the stars had been fulfilled, Moses took another census of the men of Israel, and there were 601, 730. [These are those who were numbered of the sons of Israel, 601,730. Numbers 26:51]

Based on these census figures, scholars have calculated that Israel numbered no more than four million men, women, and children. The writers of the OT believed the stars in the Heaven numbered a paltry four million stars.
The little flock is only 4 million people.

 

[Lilstu]

Looking for the "Little Flock"?
How would one recognize the true church?

32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. 34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales 35 and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need. [Acts 4]

Does this describe any church that you know?
Some might say the early church members were Socialists, or Communists.

 

[JAGG]

Dear JAGG,
In explained already that being as numerous as stars is only about 4 million people which is a very little flock over 2000 years.

Dear Lilstu,

Yes you did explain, but I was looking for some solid reasons to believe your explanations, but alas I could not find anything solid there.

The God of the Bible promised Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the Heavens. [I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed Genesis 26:4 see also Genesis 15:5, Genesis 22:17, Exodus 32:13]
After Israel was in slavery to Pharaoh, the Exodus from Egypt, and the forty years in the wilderness, Moses declared that God had made Israel as numerous as the stars in Heaven. [The Lord your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are this day like the stars of heaven in number. Deuteronomy 1:10,see also Deuteronomy 10:22]
Moses declared that God’s promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars had now been fulfilled.

All that is correct, except the fulfilled part. The New Testament picks up the theme of the Christian people of God beings as numerous as the stars and connects Abraham directly to the Christian Church in Romans chapter 4 and extends out the stars metaphor to include the Christian Church, and therefore Christians too are going to become as numerous as the stars in the sky AND as numerous as the grains of sand on the seashore. Therefore, before Time ends the Lord is going to have a HUGE/ENORMOUS FLOCK, so numerous that no man can count them.

How many stars in the Heavens did the OT writers think there were?

That is irrelevant. God promised to make His people as numerous as the stars in the sky, He did NOT promise to make then as numerous as what the Old Testament writers thought about how many stars were in the sky. There is a big difference in those two conceptions.

So how many stars are there ACTUALLY in the sky?

It's impossible to know for sure, but some estimates (based off of an estimate of 10 trillion galaxies in the universe with an estimated 100 billion stars each) put the number at around 100 octillion stars, or 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, or a 1 with 29 zeros after it. Other studies have suggested around 300 sextillion stars, or a 3 followed by 23 zeroes.__Off the Web

"Octillion definition, a cardinal number represented in the U.S. by 1 followed by 27 zeros."__Off the Web

This below is just one (1) octillion

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

God's plan for the human race is a lot bigger than most people think it is.

The Sovereign God wasn't kidding about the stars or about the grains of sand on the seashore. He really meant what He said.

You ought to expand your horizons. (The human race is still an infant, it has not even started Kindergarten, historically speaking.)

Based on these census figures, scholars have calculated that Israel numbered no more than four million men, women, and children.

The writers of the OT believed the stars in the Heaven numbered a paltry four million stars.


The little flock is only 4 million people.

Again, it does NOT matter what the writers of the Old Testament believed about the number of stars. The only thing that matters is what God knows to be the number of stars and that number is off the charts. See that quote up there again about "around 100 octillion stars" in the sky. The number is an estimate, but it demonstrates that the numbers of stars in off the charts and mind-boggling.

 

[JAGG]

Looking for the "Little Flock"?
How would one recognize the true church?

32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own,
but all things were common property to them. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. 34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales 35 and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need. [Acts 4]

Does this describe any church that you know?
Some might say the early church members were Socialists, or Communists.

Lilstu, are you trying to tell me that, as you put it, "the true church" must be one that rejects private property and becomes, de facto, a socialist church? Your post up there as good as says that --- is that what you believe the "true church" is?

 

[Lilstu]

Lilstu, are you trying to tell me that, as you put it, "the true church" must be one that rejects private property and becomes, de facto, a socialist church? Your post up there as good as says that --- is that what you believe the "true church" is?

My quote from Acts chapter 4 described the early church. Did God change his mind about his church? Did God decide that the members of his church should vote for candidates who want to cut social security, medicare, medicade, unemployment insurance, welfare, food stamps, and every other program to help the poor. And did God want the rich to pay less taxes? Is God against the EPA, FDA, Free College, etc? Is God against affordable health care for all?
I do certainly see the early church as socialist. But I see the modern corrupt church pandering to the greedy and to hell with the poor.
When I read the gospels, I see a Jesus who is very concerned with the welfare of the poor in opposition to the right wing evangelicals who IMO are a corrupt counterfeit Christianity.

 

[JAGG]

My quote from Acts chapter 4 described the early church.

Yes it did. Here is the quote:

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
Acts 4

♦ Where is the sentence in that quote that says God told them to do that? It isn't in there.

♦ More importantly, where is the sentence in that quote where God established the principle of collectively owned property for His Christian Church? It isn't in there.

♦ Therefore we have to conclude that the early church practice of "collective ownership" of property was their idea at that time, and that it was never institutionalized by God or His apostles as a rule for Christendom.

♦ And note that this same Jerusalem church ended up on welfare:

Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. I Cor. 16

the contribution I take to Jerusalem may be favorably received by the Lord’s people there, so that Romans 15

♦ Socialism did not work out well for the early church in Jerusalem. They ended up on welfare as I Cor 16 and Romans 15 indicates.

♦ Socialism is never the best idea. Why not? Because when corrupted human nature discovers they can survive on the charity of other people's blood, sweat and tears, then they quit working and depend on other people to take care of them.

Lilstu,

What do you think about this quote?

We have accepted today the existence in perpetuity of a permanent underclass of scores of millions who cannot cope and must be carried by society — fed, clothed, housed, tutored, medicated at taxpayer’s expense their entire lives. We have a dependent nation the size of Spain in our independent America. We have a new division in our country, those who pay a double or triple fare, and those who ride forever free.__Patrick J. Buchanan
— Suicide of a Superpower

 

[JAGG]

My quote from Acts chapter 4 described the early church. Did God change his mind about his church?

♦ God had no occasion to change His mind because it was not God that told the early church in Jerusalem to embrace the collective ownership of property. That was strictly their idea. Acts 4 does not even slightly suggest that God or His apostles institutionalized the collective ownership of property.

Did God decide that the members of his church should vote for candidates who want to cut social security, medicare, medicade, unemployment insurance, welfare, food stamps, and every other program to help the poor. And did God want the rich to pay less taxes?

Those are Democratic Party talking points.

The truth is that neither of America's major political parties, the Dems or the GOP, want to eliminate any of those social programs.

Is God against the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency.)

Yeah, He prolly is. The EPA is tool of the Democratic Party designed to enhance their political power.

[Is God against the] FDA (Food and Drug Administration)

No opinion on that, do I have.

Free College, etc?

Here is a question for you. Is God against the Democratic Party passing laws that force YOU to annually give say 40% of YOUR income to people who are 10 times poorer that you are? Wise readers will immediately see the principle in what I just asked. Yet its pretty certain that YOU are going to say a No to that, and then say some form of Don't tax me, tax the rich MORE and MORE.

Being poor is relative. The poorest Americans have 100 times more than the poorest Somalians.

Yet you would not want the Powers That Be to use the law to FORCE you to give 40% of your annual income to the 100 times poorer Somalians.

But you have no problem with the Powers That Be using the law to FORCE the rich to give their money to you (or to others) in the form of free social programs. Isn't that right?

Is God against affordable health care for all?

No.

I do certainly see the early church as socialist.

Just remember it was the Jerusalem Church! And that same church, de facto, went on welfare. Their socialism didn't work out very well for them.

Btw, as I recall, the Apostles eventually caught on to how fallen human nature works and Paul says near the end of his life, If they will not work neither let them eat. 2 Thess.3:10

But I see the modern corrupt church pandering to the greedy and to hell with the poor.

You are incorrect. There has never been an institution in the history of the entire world that was more giving, more generous, and more sharing that the 21st century Christian Church. That's easy to document.

When I read the gospels, I see a Jesus who is very concerned with the welfare of the poor

And so is His 21st century Christian Church in all things --- from supporting the Salvation Army, the Gideons, Christian Hospitals, half-way houses, foreign missions, Compassion International, Samaritan's Purse, and a HUGE list of other charitable organizations. The modern day 21st century Christian Church gives away billions of dollars each year to poor people. And this is in addition to the fact that HUGE numbers of these Christians vote for the Democratic Party election after election --- which is their way of saying, de facto, take from the rich and give to the poor. (At least that's what they think they're doing by voting for the Democratic Party election after election. They need to read Henry Hazlitt’s Economics in One Lesson. They'd quit voting for the Dems, if they did that.)

in opposition to the right wing evangelicals who IMO are a corrupt counterfeit Christianity.

You live on a different planet than I do. Your reality is my fantasyland and my fantasyland is your reality.

Moreover you have the gift of "pen-magic" --- with one sweep of your magic pen, you can put dozens of millions of God's people into Hell simply because they disagree with you. You just announced that right wing evangelicals are corrupt counterfeit Christians, which is another way of you saying they belong to Satan and are going to Hell. Do you realize how irrational that sounds?

Are you even aware of what you are actually saying?

"Right wing" means conservatives. "Evangelicals" refers to dozens of millions of born again Bible believing Christians, for example the Southern Baptists are an evangelical denomination and they alone have some 17 million members --- all going to Hell on Lilstu's lights, seeing as how they are part of "a corrupt counterfeit Christianity."

Yet the Southern Baptists churches are packed with millions and millions of born again Bible believing Christians who love the Lord. To bad they have to go to Hell, just because they disagree with YOU. /sarcacsm

 

[Lilstu]

Dear Jagg,
Matthew 25:34-36,40 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’
40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

 

[Lilstu]

♦ God had no occasion to change His mind because it was not God that told the early church in Jerusalem to embrace the collective ownership of property. That was strictly their idea. Acts 4 does not even slightly suggest that God or His apostles institutionalized the collective ownership of property.

Look at the verse just before my quotation from Acts 4....the Apostles were part of that church. Do you think the apostles had it wrong and Pat Buchanan has it right?

 

[False Prophet]

In vain do these people worship me teaching the doctrines and commandments of men. These people worship me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Jesus is coming back for a church without spot, blemish, or wrinkle (Eph 5:27). Is what we call church today without spot, blemish, or wrinkle? No! Rev 18:4 says: "Get out of her my people."
Christendom may try to
justify itself by saying: “These laws of
God are not applicable today.” That is just
what Satan said to Eve. So people today
have thrown the Ten Commandments and
all the other laws of God behind them.
They want freedom, they want to go
places, but no signposts. Whether they
like it or not the signposts are up! God’s
laws stand and are there to help mankind.
Will you follow the laws and live by them?
You can if you wish. Your life is at stake.

 

[Lilstu]

In vain do these people worship me teaching the doctrines and commandments of men. These people worship me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Jesus is coming back for a church without spot, blemish, or wrinkle (Eph 5:27). Is what we call church today without spot, blemish, or wrinkle? No! Rev 18:4 says: "Get out of her my people."
Christendom may try to
justify itself by saying: “These laws of
God are not applicable today.” That is just
what Satan said to Eve. So people today
have thrown the Ten Commandments and
all the other laws of God behind them.
They want freedom, they want to go
places, but no signposts. Whether they
like it or not the signposts are up! God’s
laws stand and are there to help mankind.
Will you follow the laws and live by them?
You can if you wish. Your life is at stake.

You make excellent points.

 

[JAGG]

Dear Jagg,
Matthew 25:34-36,40 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’
40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

I like that verse.

I make an effort to live my life in the spirit of that verse.

Btw, I don't believe money and what it buys is the answer to America's problems. America's problems are spiritual not economic. America, if she wants to solve her problems, needs to start with John 3:16 and proceed from that starting point . . .

 

[JAGG]

Look at the verse just before my quotation from Acts 4....the Apostles were part of that church. Do you think the apostles had it wrong and Pat Buchanan has it right?

Here are some facts about the Jerusalem church in Acts 4

♦ God did not institutionalize the collective ownership of property.

♦ The Apostles did not do that either.

♦ The people in the early church chose to do that.

♦ They later went on welfare they ended up so poor.

♦ God did NOT bless the Jerusalem church with economic blessings because THEY chose to collectivize the ownership of their property. Just the opposite. They started poor and stayed poor.

♦ To sell one's house and bring the money to the local church to be distributed to poor people is Insanity 101.

♦ Not only does God NOT require such as that, He has issued commands that would prohibit doing that, for example He said through Paul that if anyone did not provide for his own family, that he had denied the faith and was worse than an unbeliever.

♦ Its not possible for John Doe Christian to provide for his wife and 4 small children if they are living in a cardboard box under an overpass because John had a sudden brain pharte and sold his house and brought the money and laid it at the pastor's feet. That's upside down bat flying crazy.

Look at the verse just before my quotation from Acts 4....the Apostles were part of that church. Do you think the apostles had it wrong and Pat Buchanan has it right?

The Apostles didn't have it right or wrong. The Apostles never said anything. The text does not say that the Apostles told those people to sell their houses and to renounce the private ownership of property.

Let me give you a strong proof text from the mouth of God Himself that compellingly establishes the God ordained institution of the PRIVATE OWNERSHIP of property. Are you ready for it? Here it is: THOU SHALT NOT STEAL__God

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL__GOD

Comprende'?

Regarding Pay Buchanan's quote: I wanted to know what you thought about the quote.

I don't personally get all bent out of shape over America's welfare programs. I told you previously that MONEY per se is not where America's root problems are located. America has a heart problem. She needs a spiritual revival. Needs to starts with John 3:16 and go from that foundational beginning . . . .


(If America did that, then Brother Buchanan would not have anything much to complain about.)

 

[Lilstu]

Hey Jagg...
What about Ananias and Sapphira? They were members of that church and the Holy Spirit killed them when they were greedy and didn't stick to the churches socialist agenda.

 

[JAGG]

Hey Jagg...
What about Ananias and Sapphira? They were members of that church and the Holy Spirit killed them when they were greedy and didn't stick to the churches socialist agenda.

The Apostle Peter recognizes the institution of private property:

"Didn’t it [the property] belong to you before it was sold?"__Peter

That's the Apostle Peter recognizing private property as legitimate and right.

"And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal?"__Peter

More recognition of private property. The Apostle Peter is saying that the property and the money belonged to them both BEFORE and AFTER it was sold.

Their sin was in lying to God. Peter makes that clear.

"What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”__Peter

Hey Jagg...
What about Ananias and Sapphira? They were members of that church and the Holy Spirit killed them when they were greedy and didn't stick to the churches socialist agenda.

So you see now that Ananias and Sapphira were not killed because they "didn't stick to the church's socialist agenda", rather they were killed because they lied to the Holy Spirit regarding property/money that belonged to them both BEFORE and AFTER they sold it.


♦ Btw, the text of Acts 5 does not say the Holy Spirit killed Ananias and Sapphira. And it does not say He didn't. It only says that they fell down and died. We are not told who or what killed them.


♦ I would caution you against attempting to build doctrine on the book of Acts. Why? Because Acts covers a transition period and also because the Sovereign God was performing many supernatural happenings in order to validate the new fledgling Christian faith. If you attempt to build doctrine on the book of Acts you're going to get into some bad deep tall weeds.

♦ Instead build your doctrines on the Pauline epistles, starting with Romans. Do that and you will get sane and stay sane. True for us all.

♦ Another point: You don't need to hold the position that the Christian Church ought to be a socialist church. You don't need that. The Pauline epistles and the gospels are saturated with clear verses that teach us to "give and we will get, pressed down and running over, for with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" . . . there are hundreds of verses in the gospels and in the Pauline epistles that teach precisely what you're after. Then read the book of James: Faith without works is a dead faith. Give a look at James 2:14 through 26

♦ When you tie in the Christian Church with socialism and communism, you will destroy your effectiveness. People will "write you off" as being strange and weird. Again you don't need to go that way. You can get all the verses you will ever need, to support your hopes and dreams, from the gospels, the Pauline epistles, and the other New Testament books.

 

[JAGG]

I started this thread on September 30,2016 and today is March 29,2020 and
I just read back through this thread and I do believe that I presented some
very good arguments in support of my Opening Post.

I hope and pray that at least one or two people have benefited from what
I posted in this thread.

I did my best to present the case that the Christian Church will end up as
numerous as the stars in the sky and the grains of sand on the seashore.

Compare Revelation 7:9-10 which speaks of a great multitude "that no one
could count. from every nation, tribe, people, and language" and they cried
out "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb."

May God bless America and the entire world in this time of crises (the COVID-19
virus) and may God bless us individually as well.

"May the LORD bless us and keep us.
May the LORD make His face shine upon us.
May the Lord be gracious unto us.
May the LORD turn His face toward us.
May the LORD give us His peace."
(based on Numbers 6:24-26)

 

[Idolater]

I started this thread on September 30,2016 and today is March 29,2020 and
I just read back through this thread and I do believe that I presented some
very good arguments in support of my Opening Post.

I hope and pray that at least one or two people have benefited from what
I posted in this thread.

I did my best to present the case that the Christian Church will end up as
numerous as the stars in the sky and the grains of sand on the seashore.

Compare Revelation 7:9-10 which speaks of a great multitude "that no one
could count. from every nation, tribe, people, and language" and they cried
out "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb."

May God bless America and the entire world in this time of crises (the COVID-19
virus) and may God bless us individually as well.

"May the LORD bless us and keep us.
May the LORD make His face shine upon us.
May the Lord be gracious unto us.
May the LORD turn His face toward us.
May the LORD give us His peace."
(based on Numbers 6:24-26)

Can you believe that this is how the King James Bible renders John chapter six, but that it's not an authorized English Bible according to Catholicism?

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”​

 

[beloved57]

I hold the view that there will be, NOT a few, but rather untold billions of people that will be born into the stream of history as the millenniums roll forward, and that these untold billions will become Christians.

Here is one argument to support my position:
(I have more arguments coming)

Human history ends with the number of Christians so numerous that no human being could count them.





Obviously we must interpret Matthew 7:13-14 (only a few find it) in such a way that it does not create a contradiction with Revelation 7:9-10's "a great multitude that no one could count."

What say you?

Its a few when you consider how many people have lived and died on this earth. For instance, a billion people, though a large amount, is a small # when zillions of people have lived on earth.