Theology Club: Why Will No One in the Neo-MAD Camp Address John 3:16?

[Jerry Shugart]

That is NOT the gospel of Christ mentioned in Romans 1:16 KJV! You need to get the gospels straight! And when you do: 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).​

Which gospel that brings salvation was preached to "the Jews first"?

Since you consider yourself an expert on the various gospels then that question will be easy for you to answer.[/quote]

It is easy to answer. The Gentiles were never under the law of Moses"

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves" (Ro.2:14).​

Do you actually think that these words are speaking of Gentiles being under the law?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

 

[Clete]

Hey Jerry,

Why not Acts 15, where the Jerusalem council takes place and the Apostles all agree that the Gentiles don't have to become circumcised and follow the Law of Moses?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).​

Which gospel that brings salvation was preached to "the Jews first"?

Since you consider yourself an expert on the various gospels then that question will be easy for you to answer.

Romans 1:1-4 (KJV). Gospel of God.
1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV). Gospel of Christ.

Compare Acts 17 with the Thessalonian letters.

 

[Danoh]

Romans 1:1-4 (KJV). Gospel of God.
1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV). Gospel of Christ.

Compare Acts 17 with the Thessalonian letters.

That's two views of the three on here.

Meaning, we will just have to "let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind," Rom. 14:23.

Oh, wait, Jerry's hounding given his desperate need for acknowledgment, won't allow that...

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That's two views of the three on here.

Meaning, we will just have to "let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind," Rom. 14:23.

Oh, wait, Jerry's hounding given his desperate need for acknowledgment, won't allow that...

I may try something with Jerry.
Repeat his exact words back to him in agreement.

Do you think he will accept it and move on?

 

[Danoh]

I may try something with Jerry.
Repeat his exact words back to him in agreement.

Do you think he will accept it and move on?

I thought about that once.

Once, lol

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I thought about that once.

Once, lol

I got the idea from you.
It's akin to killing them with kindness.

 

[Danoh]

Anyway, we can replace his Anderson avatar with your Barney avatar, lol

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Anyway, we can replace his Anderson avatar with your Barney avatar, lol

I feel that he is slighting the other MAD Co-Pope, by showing his obvious allegiance to Andersen over O'Hair.

 

[Danoh]

I feel that he is slighting the other MAD Co-Pope, by showing his obvious allegiance to Andersen over O'Hair.

As I had to ask him, as a result: seeing as those two great men had not seen eye to eye; which of them was this fool "Neo-Mad "label "you attack the messenger" with?

Not much of an answer was his answer.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

As I had to ask him, as a result: seeing as those two great men had not seen eye to eye; which of them was this fool "Neo-Mad "label "you attack the messenger" with?

Not much of an answer was his answer.

I think he sides more with Sir Bob.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I asked you:

Which gospel that brings salvation was preached to "the Jews first"?​

And you answer by saying:

1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV). Gospel of Christ.

So you think that the "gospel of Christ" was preached to the Jews before it was preached to the Gentiles and that those Jews who believed it were saved by their faith alone?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

So you think that the "gospel of Christ" was preached to the Jews before it was preached to the Gentiles and that those Jews who believed it were saved by their faith alone?

As his custom was, Paul entered a synagogue and preached that Jesus is the Christ to the Jews and Greeks. Those who believed Jesus is the Christ were separated out and taught that Christ died for their sins, and was raised for their justification.

 

[Danoh]

As his custom was, Paul entered a synagogue and preached that Jesus is the Christ to the Jews and Greeks. Those who believed Jesus is the Christ were separated out and taught that Christ died for their sins, and was raised for their justification.

He would then share the Mystery (he would later lay out in Romans thru Philemon) with them

 

[Jerry Shugart]

As his custom was, Paul entered a synagogue and preached that Jesus is the Christ to the Jews and Greeks.

Those who believed that were saved when they were born of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).​

Those who believed Jesus is the Christ were separated out and taught that Christ died for their sins, and was raised for their justification.

How could believing that gospel save them since they were already saved?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Those who believed that were saved when they were born of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).​

How could believing that gospel save them since they were already saved?

Per Jerry:

They could be saved even if they denied 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV).

What a mess.

Leave 1 John in the tribulation, and you will understand.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

They could be saved even if they denied 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV).

Why do you change the subject. Your argument was in regard to those who believed that Jesus is the Christ:

As his custom was, Paul entered a synagogue and preached that Jesus is the Christ to the Jews and Greeks. Those who believed Jesus is the Christ were separated out and taught that Christ died for their sins, and was raised for their justification.

Leave 1 John in the tribulation, and you will understand.

Why should I since those who believed in Jesus Christ in the first century were in fact "born of God" as a result of their faith:

"He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

So there in nothing at all which says that what is said here was not in effect in the first century:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.1:5).​

According to you the Jews who believed that Jesus is the Christ were later saved when they believed the gospel of 1 Corinthians 15:1-5. But how could those who were already saved by being born of God be saved when they believed the gospel of 1 Corinthians 15:1-5?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Why do you change the subject.

The show that the logical conclusion of what you believe is nonsense.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The show that the logical conclusion of what you believe is nonsense.

It does not and you said nothing that proves that assertion is true. And why didn't you respond to the rest of what I said?

 

[Brother Vinny]

Let's see if I can play this game. Were I a Neo-MAD adherent, I'd point up first the tense of the word "believe" is in the present, and that the Greek present tense implies something that is continuous, not a one-time past event that could possibly be drifted away from at a given point in the future. It might better be translated, according to some, as "whoever believes and goes on believing." Contrast this with Paul's words in 2 Timothy 2:13, "If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself." The believer in the present dispensation becomes a member of Christ's Body (as opposed to His Bride), and Christ cannot deny Himself even if we lose faith.

I'd also say the word "believe" here is shorthand for the concept of a saving faith as later illustrated by James in his epistle to the circumcision, and implies those things that are concomitant with a saving faith, which is to say, works. Jesus emphasizes the need for good works so often in other gospel passages, and states these works will be in part the basis of the final judgment; are you really going to try to create tension by dividing Christ's teachings against other teachings of His from the same time period? That's a recipe for confusion.

How am I doing, Neo-MADists? I haven't tried my hand at this for a while, so I feel rusty, and I don't wish to misrepresent the position in any way.