Theology Club: Why Will No One in the Neo-MAD Camp Address John 3:16?

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
All you are doing is attempting to ignore what I posted in post #218 - by your supposedly favorite writers - against you.

Nothing you said proves that either man believed that the Jews who lived under the Law had to do works for salvation. And neither believed that the doctrine found in Hebrews through Jude is not for those in the Body of Christ.

So you gave no evidence that demonstrates what you said here is true:

According to your fool notions, Jerry, one of those two men would have to fall under your Neo-Mad nonsense..

Sister, you need to learn to cease from just making things up. Grow up and act like an adult for a change.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Was referred by patrick jane to give mid-Acts theology (another) try, so I'm trying to be open.

What are the ramifications to the gospel of grace if Jerry is right?

What are they if he's wrong?

jerry has one dispensation for the whole bible
Throughout history men have been saved in only one way--by grace through faith."

now Mid Acts Dispensation believes that Paul’s letters are written to gentiles (grace)

while Jesus and the 12 are to Jews (keep the commandments)
but jerry reads them, and in fact the whole bible as grace
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
jerry has one dispensation for the whole bible


now Mid Acts Dispensation believes that Paul’s letters are written to gentiles (grace)

while Jesus and the 12 are to Jews (keep the commandments)
but jerry reads them, and in fact the whole bible as grace

Its hard to understand why he bothers calling himself a Dispensationalist in the first place.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
8843e179817aee04c31a71a293f4d98a.jpg


Was referred by patrick jane to give mid-Acts theology (another) try, so I'm trying to be open.

What are the ramifications to the gospel of grace if Jerry is right?

What are they if he's wrong?

jerry doesn't seem to get along with many, if any.he can talk a good game until he starts interviewing you -

for me personally it started with Romans, just reading as it were to me directly. it is - so i picture myself there, hearing God's Word. i go to a quiet place, lay down and read the Bible. by the grace of God and in Christ, i began to understand. it can get very detailed but it's not complicated.

Paul is the Apostle of the gentiles. there are so many scriptures i could post, but even for me when folks did that for me early, i didn't/couldn't read and understand everything and still study how i wanted. as i said, i came here telling anyone that i could to read Paul's letters/epistles, before i knew of MAD.

i cannot stress enough how important the proper comprehension and reading the text ON YOUR OWN.

then seek opinions and members of the BOC. it's very easy to get sidetracked here, and i trust the posts of a certain core of folks more than others. john w is amazing when he teaches/preaches. i like heir's posts and Tambora, too many to list and the teachings are sporadic.

Praise Jesus things began to click more and more, day after day. still i know barely enough and don't consider myself a teacher of any kind. however, between 3rd and 5th month of monitoring and reading focused posts that were ON TOPIC it began to sink in. i'm slow, it's ok to be as slow as needed. the Bible started coming together. so i go back and read ALL of The Acts Of The Apostles up to revelation. again, the OT, Revelation, ALL make more sense now.

keep in mind who is speaking and who/what they are speaking to/about.
the intended audience is key. another key factor which is clearly written of Jesus' OWN Words to Israel/Jews/Circumcision and of the Law. Grace did not take place for the gentiles until Paul, and that is MAD.

really concentrate and focus and think about the meaning of what is written and read The Acts again beginning to end. or one of the gospels of M,M,L or J before Acts. then keep reading and stay tuned here if you can and really watch certain posters for insight and wisdom. oh, STP is great also, i'm a jokester except for scripture - oh, musterion knows very much also. i'm the dumbest of the bunch. glorydayz and angel4truth too. and don't be scared to ask Knight a thing er 2. thumbs up for grosnick as well
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
jerry doesn't seem to get along with many, if any.he can talk a good game until he starts interviewing you -

for me personally it started with Romans, just reading as it were to me directly. it is - so i picture myself there, hearing God's Word. i go to a quiet place, lay down and read the Bible. by the grace of God and in Christ, i began to understand. it can get very detailed but it's not complicated.

Paul is the Apostle of the gentiles. there are so many scriptures i could post, but even for me when folks did that for me early, i didn't/couldn't read and understand everything and still study how i was. as i said, i came here telling anyone that i could to read Paul's letters/epistles, before i knew of MAD.

i cannot stress enough how important the proper comprehension and reading the text OWN YOUR OWN.

then seek opinion and members of the BOC. it's very easy to get sidetracked here, and i trust the posts of a certain core of folks more than others. john w is amazing when he teaches/preaches. i like heir's posts and Tambora, too many to list and the teachings are sporadic.

Praise Jesus things began to click more and more, day after day. still i know barely enough and don't consider myself a teacher of any kind. however, between 3rd and 5th month of monitoring and reading focused posts ON TOPIC it began to sink in. i'm slow, it's ok to be as slow as needed. the Bible started coming together. so i go back and read ALL of The Acts Of The Apostles up to revelation. again, the OT, Revelation, ALL make more sense now.

keep in mind who is speaking and who/what they are speaking to/about.
the intended audience is key. another key factor which is clearly written of Jesus' OWN Words to Israel/Jews/Circumcision and of the Law. Grace did not take place until Paul and that is MAD.

really concentrate and focus and think about the meaning of what is written and read The Acts again beginning to end. or one of the gospels of M,M,L or J before Acts. then keep reading and stay tuned here if you can and really watch certain posters for insight and wisdom. oh, STP is great also, i'm a jokester except for scripture - peace vinny

Excellent post PJ
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
It's so important that posters realize that we're living in the
Dispensation of Grace. (Paul's Gospel) And, we're saved by
God's Grace through our faith. We must, hear the Gospel,
place our faith in Christ as our Savior, sealed/indwelt and
baptized (not by water) into the Body of Christ.

That is the Gospel!!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
James 2 is about salvation, Jerry.

Clete, let us look at this verse which is in the first chapter of James:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).​

Those who received the epistle of James were "born of God" and therefore saved by faith and faith alone.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

His answer is clear....

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

This single verse destroys your entire premise. There's nothing more to say about it.

You ignore the context because what James is speaking about is what a man can know about another man's faith:

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jas.2:18).​

As far a man knows, if another man shows no good works then that man's faith is dead or non-existent. And obviously as far as a man can tell, that kind of faith will save no one.

Sir Robert Anderson, the father of systemized Mid Acts Dispensationalism, had this to say about this subject:

"Paul's Epistle (Romans) unfolds the mind and purposes of God, revealing His righteousness and wrath. The Epistle of James addresses men upon their own ground. The one deals with justification as between the sinner and God, the other as between man and man. In the one, therefore, the word is, 'To him that worketh not, but believeth'. In the other it is, 'What is the profit if a man say he hath faith, and have not works?' Not 'If a man have faith', but 'If a man say he hath faith' proving that, in the case supposed, the individual is not dealing with God, but arguing the matter with his brethren. God, who searches the heart, does not need to judge by works, which are but the outward manifestation of faith within; but man can judge only by appearances...He (Abraham) was justified by faith when judged by God, for God knows the heart. He was justified by works when judged by his fellow men, for man can only read the life" [emphasis added] (Anderson, The Gospel and Its Ministry, [Kregel Publications, 1978], pp.160-161).​

Now I wait for you to answer this verse which proves that those to whom James wrote were saved by faith and faith alone:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).​

You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.[/INDENT]

Yes, and even though they were all zealous of the law every one of these people were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:15-16).​

Anyone who has truly believed the gospel of grace knows that "works" and "grace" are mutually exclusive.

Matthew 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

That is one way whereby a Jew who lived under the law could inherit eternal life. However, if a Jew broke just one of the commandments he was guilty of all (Jas.2:10). Since all men have sinned it is obvious that no Jew was saved in this way. However, there is another way that they can be said, as witnessed by the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

I have answered three of the verses which you quoted so now answer what I said about James 1:18 and the two other verses which I quoted.
 

Pierac

New member
It's so important that posters realize that we're living in the
Dispensation of Grace. (Paul's Gospel) And, we're saved by
God's Grace through our faith. We must, hear the Gospel,
place our faith in Christ as our Savior, sealed/indwelt and
baptized (not by water) into the Body of Christ.

That is the Gospel!!


Your over complicating it! Paul had the same Gospel as them all.

Paul said...

Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

James said...

Jam 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

They spoke the same language...? :think:


Paul
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Your over complicating it! Paul had the same Gospel as them all.

Paul said...

Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

James said...

Jam 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

They spoke the same language...? :think:


Paul
LOL

Paul could not even have been forgiven under the kingdom gospel!

Matthew 12:31-32 KJV

1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
He ignored the fact that Cornelius was a just man who feared God, and blessed the Jews, all before Peter was sent to him.

Was he a Gentile or not? Of course he was. And he was saved by grace through faith.

Here is the statement which I was addressing:

"Grace did not take place for the gentiles until Paul, and that is MAD."​

Of course what is said there is in error. And you said nothing to prove that what is said there is correct.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
LOL

Cornelius never heard the gospel of Christ.

Peter was sent to speak the words to Cornelius whereby he would be saved:

"And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning" (Acts 11:13-15).​

The words which Cornelius and his household heard and believed saved them. the word "gospel" means good news so the "good news" which theyheard was indeed the "gospel of Christ" becauseit brought salvation to them:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel (good news) of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).​

The good news which was preached to Cornelius was the same good news which was first preached to the Jews (Acts 10:37).

Since you think that you know so much about this subject then I am sure that you can tell me what "good news" about Christ was first preached to the Jews.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Your over complicating it! Paul had the same Gospel as them all.

Paul said...

Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

James said...

Jam 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

They spoke the same language...? :think:


Paul

Nope. Believe what you so desire, however, the "Ascended Christ"
met Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus. Subsequently, Paul was
sent to the Gentiles with the "Grace Message." (Paul's Gospel)

Two Messages:
1) The Kingdom Message
2) The Grace Message

If that's "too complicated for you" believe what you will.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Nope. Believe what you so desire, however, the "Ascended Christ"
met Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus. Subsequently, Paul was
sent to the Gentiles with the "Grace Message." (Paul's Gospel)

Two Messages:
1) The Kingdom Message
2) The Grace Message

So what message did Paul preach to the Jews when he went to them in the synagogues?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Well, they rejected Paul and his message so, don't you reason
that he (Paul) was preaching something they didn't like nor
accept? Paul was physically abused at times by the Jews.

So, what do you think?

Why do you not answer my question since you obviously consider yourself an expert on this subject. Again, here is my question and if you do not know the answer then just say so:

So what message did Paul preach to the Jews when he went to them in the synagogues?
 
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