Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
It's your thread.
Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 6
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Was it me being the author of the opening post that gave it away?
Originally posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
That's why many Libertarians and Democrats crossed Party lines to vote for Donald Trump in 2016 and very well might do so again, as they know, contrary to an attempt (by Trump's evangelical supporters) to paint a different picture, he isn't anywhere close to being a social conservative. If you look at other things that Donald Trump has done and said, he really isn't even a conservative of any kind.
I thought it was evident that Donald Trump is a left winger by his views on homosexuality and phony conservative Justices that he's appointed to the Supreme Court and other high level Courts such as the Circuit Courts of Appeal.
I think a lot of Christians will either be voting 3rd Party or staying home. I still have a few months to share Trump's liberal record with them in the event they've been under a rock for the past 3+ years.
That's why many Libertarians and Democrats crossed Party lines to vote for Donald Trump in 2016 and very well might do so again, as they know, contrary to an attempt (by Trump's evangelical supporters) to paint a different picture, he isn't anywhere close to being a social conservative. If you look at other things that Donald Trump has done and said, he really isn't even a conservative of any kind.
I thought it was evident that Donald Trump is a left winger by his views on homosexuality and phony conservative Justices that he's appointed to the Supreme Court and other high level Courts such as the Circuit Courts of Appeal.
I think a lot of Christians will either be voting 3rd Party or staying home. I still have a few months to share Trump's liberal record with them in the event they've been under a rock for the past 3+ years.
eider
Well-known member
A 3rd party vote would be good for the USA, just as it has been for the UK in the past.
I've heard that Israel's governments are usually built up in coalitions of many parties, and maybe we need that kind of political 'build'...?
And so, although I don't and can't support your principles I can definitely support your right to express them and vote for them.
A 3rd party vote would be good for the USA, just as it has been for the UK in the past.
I've heard that Israel's governments are usually built up in coalitions of many parties, and maybe we need that kind of political 'build'...?
And so, although I don't and can't support your principles I can definitely support your right to express them and vote for them.
Either the people who voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and will again vote for him in 2020 are diehard swamp dwelling Republicans who gave us Bob Dole, John McCain, George Bush and Mitt Romney, or they are openly liberal (Libertarians and Democrats) who crossed Party lines to vote for a NYC rainbow flag waving liberal. People of faith have absolutely nothing in common with the latter, and if they truly want :the swamp" to be drained, they better understand that serous change needs to be done, and voting for the supposed lesser of two evils isn't it.
eider
Well-known member
Well, we'll soon see what happens, eh?
That so many folks hate the rainbow flag (where you are) is a sad picture for us in the UK and most of Europe.
For us the Rainbow flag means so much more....... Our 'Stay-home' message poster seen in most of our windows has a full rainbow above a house. One of the fast growing churches (as fast growing as the JWs!) is called 'Riverside Church' and its emblem is the rainbow.
There are some churches that (quietly) agree with your religious tenets about gays etc but their congregations are mostly tiny, some churches around here are being sold to become private dwellings, apartments and flats.
This isn't meant as a back-hander, but it is true that the groups most heatedly against gays here seem to be far right extremist nutters, the white's-only, antisemitism, gay haters and I get the feeling that you would not want to be anywhere near any of them.
Sometimes we have to vote to stop something, rather than to build something. I do like the idea of coalition governments. Although they have no clear direction at all they have one characteristic which can recommend itself.... they tend to be moderate governments.
The Bostock v Clayton County, GA ruling is getting very little coverage in supposedly conservative circles, and that a Trump appointed SCOTUS Justice wrote the majority opinion is not mentioned at all. I did hear a Christian radio talk show host talk briefly about the ruling recently, but it was brief and his callers didn't seem interested as the subject wasn't brought up again.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
US Embassy in Russia celebrates Pride Month 2020.
Today, the U.S. Embassy in Russia displays the LGBTI Pride Flag. The LGBTI flag was created by American artist and activist Gilbert Baker and was first raised as a symbol of hope and diversity on June 25, 1978, during the Gay Freedom Day parade in San Francisco. June is Pride Month and we celebrate that everyone deserves to live a life free from hatred, prejudice, and persecution. As Ambassador Sullivan has said, “LGBTI rights are human rights. And human rights are universal. It’s as simple as that.”
https://ru.usembassy.gov/pride-month-2020/
Today, the U.S. Embassy in Russia displays the LGBTI Pride Flag. The LGBTI flag was created by American artist and activist Gilbert Baker and was first raised as a symbol of hope and diversity on June 25, 1978, during the Gay Freedom Day parade in San Francisco. June is Pride Month and we celebrate that everyone deserves to live a life free from hatred, prejudice, and persecution. As Ambassador Sullivan has said, “LGBTI rights are human rights. And human rights are universal. It’s as simple as that.”
https://ru.usembassy.gov/pride-month-2020/
Serious question... what do you hope to accomplish? While it’s refreshing to actually see a professed Christian to speak out of the evil that is trump, you cannot convince this type of mindset.
Speak the truth and let those who hear it decide for themselves if they want to accept or reject it.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
And the truth is that there are no candidates running for any public office anywhere in the United States right now who are advocating for the re-criminalization of homosexuality, isn't that correct? So isn't your campaign against President Trump on that mark only half the story here? Who should someone vote for, who wants homosexuality re-criminalized, is it isn't to re-elect President Trump? What is the truth? It's that, there are no options, isn't it, that are better than President Trump on this issue. The truth is that there aren't any candidates or politicians who are supporting this policy, isn't that correct? None of them are better than President Trump, in the matter this thread addresses.
Originally posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
Speak the truth and let those who hear it decide for themselves if they want to accept or reject it.
I can tell you that the truth is that both candidates for President from the two mainstream political parties (Donald Trump and Joe Biden) are devout advocates for the homosexual and transgender agenda.
The Constitution Party has this stance on homosexuality in it's platform:
The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted. We are opposed to any judicial ruling or amending the U.S. Constitution or any state constitution re-defining marriage with any definition other than the Biblical standard. We reject the notion that homosexuals, transgenders or those who are sexually deviant are deserving of legal favor or special protection, and affirm the rights of states and localities to proscribe offensive sexual behavior.
https://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Co...vil_Rights.htm
Even if there weren't options to vote for decency (and as shown above there are), why would anyone who believes in conserving Judeo-Christian values vote for Donald Trump, who as shown several posts ago has a very long history of supporting the homosexual and transgender agenda?
Please don't go with the lesser of two evils ploy, as you and your libertarian* allies used that back in 2016 and unfortunately many fell for it and voted for Donald Trump.
He is going to lose and lose badly, meaning that those Democrats and Libertarians that crossed Party lines to vote for Donald Trump can go back to their Parties and let the Republicrat Party die the slow and agonizing death that it deserves.
*Calling someone a libertarian doesn't necessarily mean that they are a Libertarian Party member. The chances are that they couldn't come up with the 25 cent membership fee, so while they do embrace libertarian ideology and the candidates that embrace it, they very well may not be card carrying Libertarian Party members.
Speak the truth and let those who hear it decide for themselves if they want to accept or reject it.
I can tell you that the truth is that both candidates for President from the two mainstream political parties (Donald Trump and Joe Biden) are devout advocates for the homosexual and transgender agenda.
The Constitution Party has this stance on homosexuality in it's platform:
The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted. We are opposed to any judicial ruling or amending the U.S. Constitution or any state constitution re-defining marriage with any definition other than the Biblical standard. We reject the notion that homosexuals, transgenders or those who are sexually deviant are deserving of legal favor or special protection, and affirm the rights of states and localities to proscribe offensive sexual behavior.
https://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Co...vil_Rights.htm
Even if there weren't options to vote for decency (and as shown above there are), why would anyone who believes in conserving Judeo-Christian values vote for Donald Trump, who as shown several posts ago has a very long history of supporting the homosexual and transgender agenda?
Please don't go with the lesser of two evils ploy, as you and your libertarian* allies used that back in 2016 and unfortunately many fell for it and voted for Donald Trump.
He is going to lose and lose badly, meaning that those Democrats and Libertarians that crossed Party lines to vote for Donald Trump can go back to their Parties and let the Republicrat Party die the slow and agonizing death that it deserves.
*Calling someone a libertarian doesn't necessarily mean that they are a Libertarian Party member. The chances are that they couldn't come up with the 25 cent membership fee, so while they do embrace libertarian ideology and the candidates that embrace it, they very well may not be card carrying Libertarian Party members.
I had written about the lesbian-Marxist founders of the Black Lives Matter movement in earlier threads; Peter LaBarbera of Americans for [some truth] About Homosexuality has written a good article on the BLM movement.
[h=3]Black Lives Matter’ Manifesto Outlines Radical ‘Queer’ Agenda – ‘Disrupt the Nuclear Family Structure’[/h] [h=4]Pro-LGBTQueer creed aims to “dismantle cisgender privilege … free ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking”
https://americansfortruth.com/2020/...-agenda-disrupt-the-nuclear-family-structure/
[/h]
[h=3]Black Lives Matter’ Manifesto Outlines Radical ‘Queer’ Agenda – ‘Disrupt the Nuclear Family Structure’[/h] [h=4]Pro-LGBTQueer creed aims to “dismantle cisgender privilege … free ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking”
https://americansfortruth.com/2020/...-agenda-disrupt-the-nuclear-family-structure/
[/h]
For those of you interested in learning the details of the recent SCOTUS ruling which was allegedly a victory for religious freedom, here's a good article explaining the details.
SCOTUS Broadens Employers' "Ministerial Exception" Protections
https://wagenmakerlaw.com/blog/scotu...on-protections
Here is the explanation of the case from the SCOTUS blog. Note that the vote was 7-2, so beware when openly liberal Justices vote for what appears to be religious freedom.
Our Lady of Guadalupe School v. Morrissey-Berru
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/07/o...n/#more-295040
It should be noted that this case had nothing to do with the plaintiff being fired for being homosexual, so it will be interesting to see if this case overrules the Bostock decision in dealing with religious institutions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe_School_v._Morrissey-Berru
SCOTUS Broadens Employers' "Ministerial Exception" Protections
https://wagenmakerlaw.com/blog/scotu...on-protections
Here is the explanation of the case from the SCOTUS blog. Note that the vote was 7-2, so beware when openly liberal Justices vote for what appears to be religious freedom.
Our Lady of Guadalupe School v. Morrissey-Berru
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/07/o...n/#more-295040
It should be noted that this case had nothing to do with the plaintiff being fired for being homosexual, so it will be interesting to see if this case overrules the Bostock decision in dealing with religious institutions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe_School_v._Morrissey-Berru
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
No, a libertarian is an anarcho-capitalist, and I'm not one of them, I'm a fundamentalist liberal; not a classical liberal, not an anarchistic liberal ('libertarian'), not a socialist liberal ('social democrat') and not a conservative liberal like you are. I'm a fundamentalist when it comes to human rights. Not only do I feel passionately about defending them, but I insist that everybody else does too, and I'll fight about it, and I support policies that severely punish human rights violators, up to and including world war, such as for instance Iraq, Iraq, Vietnam, and Korea, the Japanese Empire, and Nazi Germany. All good liberal wars imo. Human rights violators should have holy war waged upon them until they stop violating rights, and start defending them, like you're supposed to do.
Why is it that everyone that I run across on the www is ashamed to admit that they're a libertarian?
The core of libertarian ideology can be found in the preamble to the Libertarian Party Platform, and without a doubt you embrace that ideology.
https://www.lp.org/platform/
Thoughts on the recent SCOTUS ruling which supposedly allows religious institutions to discriminate against those that identify as homosexual or transgender?
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
I can speak for myself. I'm not "ashamed" of being something that I am not. I am not a libertarian. I explained plainly why.
I know what a libertarian is, and I am not one. I am an absolutist, radical, fundamentalist liberal. Libertarians are anarchistic liberals, libertarians do not support for example aggression even when it is in defense of someone's rights. No libertarians think the wars in Iraq and in Vietnam or in Korea, and many not even WWII against the Nazis and against the Japanese Empire, were good or justified or moral. They have this "non-aggression principle" which I am against. It is always right to defend rights.
I have the same conservative values that you do, but I am not a conservative liberal like you are, if you're not just a full-fledged conservative. We have rights that are pre-political and fundamental, and these rights are claims against everyone including the government. It is never right to infringe rights, even when it is for our own good.
Youngsters should respect their elders, women should all other things being equal defer to men, people shouldn't present themselves in an indiscriminately flirtatious manner, indiscriminate abortion is gravely wrong, people should go to Mass ("church"), and chastity is very good. We differ because in spite of these values that we both hold dear I'm sure, as a liberal I believe that individual human rights trump paternalism. People will be better off if they live by my values, but they have the right to choose otherwise, and I defend that right, even to the death.
Libertarians also condemn taxation in all forms, I support sales taxes and other taxes on commerce, only condemning wealth and property taxation, and income taxes.
Libertarians think that the ideal government is no government, or at most a "night watchman" government. Libertarians believe that without government, everyone will peacefully and voluntarily make contracts with each to satisfy their needs and desires, without any one entity having a quote-unquote "monopoly on the use of force". As a fundamentalist liberal I believe that government is good, so long as it does good, which is to secure our rights, and our homeland, and then if we can afford it, to secure the rights and homeland of others as it becomes feasible to do so. Rather than the libertarians' "government that governs least governs best", I believe in government that is as sprawling and strong as is needed to achieve its good obligations, to secure basic human rights, even if force /aggression is required or prudent.
Where libertarian /anarcho-capitalist ideology overlaps my liberal ideology, it was philosophical liberalism that originated the ideas and not the Johnny-come-lately libertarians. They've begged, borrowed, and stolen their cherry-picked values from liberalism, avoiding the ones that help stabilize society like the use of force to defend human rights.
We have the right to not be forced to work in order to fund what we personally find gross.
What is it about this that you don't agree with?
"We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.
Consequently, we defend each person’s right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power."
Surely you're not against diversity are you?
Cuz conserving liberalism is what I'm all about.
What if God finds it gross? (Psssst, this is where you write about theocracies).
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
I already set out my ideology, it is markedly distinct from libertarianism (anarcho-capitalism or anarchistic liberalism).
What does diversity mean here?
You're liberal with a conservative (paternalistic) bent.
Unless you're just a conservative, in which case your paternalism would be the controlling factor in your ideology, rather than human rights.
God is liberal.
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