Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 5

[lovemeorhateme]

Further research on the UK's True Freedom Trust organization makes me suspicious of them. A wiki article on the organization states "...It takes the view that homosexual activity is sinful, but being homosexual is not sinful in and of itself and, therefore, advocates celibacy for those of its gay and lesbian members who do not consider marriage to someone of the opposite sex to be a viable option."

Roaming through the True Freedom Trust website I came across this article which pretty much confirmed why I was suspicious:

Vicky Beeching's 'Undivided' trap: why evangelicals need a better story

"The second aspect I often read is some form of conversion attempt. By this I mean some therapy, or prayer or other similar exercise that was intended to change a person's sexual orientation. When this fails, as it normally does, the individual becomes despondent and confused. The key problem with these kinds of approaches is that they operate by necessity out of a framework where heterosexual attraction is morally superior to homosexual attraction, and frankly this is a concept we cannot find in the Bible. Rather the Bible's focus in this area is on specific sexual activity."
https://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/vicky-beechings-undivided

A man having a natural attraction to a woman, which often leads to matrimony is not morally superior to same sex desires which as shown throughout this 5 part thread were desires that didn't come naturally?

Obviously these people are for keeping their homosexual identity, (even though they're not physically having sex with someone of the same sex) while at the same time calling themselves "Christian".

Theologian Denny Burk disagrees:


Celibate Gay Christians: Is That Biblical?

...The defining element of same-sex attraction is desire for a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex. Once that desire is removed, it is no longer SSA. It is just friendship. In that sense, same-sex attraction is not a means to better, more holy friendships. It is an impediment to them. When one feels himself desiring a sexual relationship with a person of the same-sex, the only appropriate response is repentance from sin (2 Tim. 2:22). It is not right or helpful to think of that sinful attraction as the foundation for building holy friendships. It is not.
The nature of those attractions, as a matter of fact, is precisely what is in dispute at the moment. My hunch is that the Roman Catholic influence at spiritualfriendship.org has something to do with our differences over this question. Roman Catholics have historically approached the issue of indwelling sin much differently than Reformed protestants. The Roman Catholic view of “desire/lust” (or “concupiscence”) is that it is not necessarily sinful. As I mentioned earlier this week, the evangelical position has in the main taught the opposite. Reformed evangelicals believe that the Bible teaches that desire for sin is sin.
Read more: https://www.christianity.com/christ...celibate-gay-christians-is-that-biblical.html

Calling yourself a "Gay Christian" (even if you use an * saying that you're celibate) is an oxymoron. Simply put, you can't identify with sin (by calling yourself a 'Gay Christian', etc.), and still call yourself a follower of Christ.

"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

1 Corinthians 6:11

The True Freedom Trust certainly used to participate in attempts at conversion, though looking at their website it seems they have changed quite a lot since I was involved with them.

Just two points to clarify:
1. The exorcism I went through had nothing to do with the True Freedom Trust, but a pastor who my parents both knew. This was not the last exorcism I would go through either.
2. Not really important, but the counsellor I saw was named Ray and not Roger. Just want to make sure I’m being as factual as possible.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The True Freedom Trust certainly used to participate in attempts at conversion, though looking at their website it seems they have changed quite a lot since I was involved with them.

From helping people with unwanted same sex desires find their heterosexual potential to saying that heterosexual and homosexual attractions are on equal moral grounds; I'd say that is quite a change.

Just two points to clarify:
1. The exorcism I went through had nothing to do with the True Freedom Trust, but a pastor who my parents both knew. This was not the last exorcism I would go through either.

So you were dealing with people who weren't professionals in dealing with childhood abuse and same sex attraction that often times comes with it.

Hardly a reason to give legitimate conversion/reparative therapy a bad rap don't cha think?

2. Not really important, but the counsellor I saw was named Ray and not Roger. Just want to make sure I’m being as factual as possible.

Would you tell the readers of this thread what you went through back when TFT was practicing conversion/reparative therapy?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Continuing with the long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual/transgender activism before becoming President and during his first two years in office:

We left off on page 103, post #1539:


April 27, 2017 - Fifty-two Republican Congressmen asked President Trump to issue the Feb. 2 draft "executive order" defending religious liberty that was shelved.

Titled "Establishing a Government-Wide Initiative to Respect Religious Freedom," the four-page draft would cover and protect the religious freedom of individuals and "any organization, including closely held for-profit corporations" that are seeking a job, employed, providing social services, employing others, receiving government grants and participating in the public square or marketplace.
Critics of the draft order argued that it would allow for rampant discrimination of the LGBT community by businesses and charities.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ized!-Part-5&p=5290468&viewfull=1#post5290468

May 4, 2017 – Ryan T. Anderson, prominent natural marriage defender with the Heritage Foundation, stated that Trump’s Executive Order was “woefully inadequate,” “does not address the major threats to religious liberty in the United States today,” and is a mere shadow of the vastly better original draft leaked in February.
(Original draft: https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/02...eral-fearmongering-protect-religious-freedom/

May 8, 2017 - The most-criticized element of the executive order is its lack of specific protection for Americans who live their beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman. Religious freedom and pro-marriage advocate Professor Robert P. George tweeted that the executive order contains no substantial conscience protections.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

From helping people with unwanted same sex desires find their heterosexual potential to saying that heterosexual and homosexual attractions are on equal moral grounds; I'd say that is quite a change.

Maybe they realised the folly of conversion therapy, where the results are rarely positive?

So you were dealing with people who weren't professionals in dealing with childhood abuse and same sex attraction that often times comes with it.

Hardly a reason to give legitimate conversion/reparative therapy a bad rap don't cha think?

In the past I have dealt with professionals and non-professionals alike. They all seem to have many answers, none of which seemed to work.

Would you tell the readers of this thread what you went through back when TFT was practicing conversion/reparative therapy?

I went through counselling and discussed what they believed the causes of same sex attraction to be, with a view to changing those attractions I had from homosexual to heterosexual. I was sold false hope that conversion therapy would work, that it would remove homosexual attraction from my life. It didn’t.

 

[Crucifer]

Donald Trump's pro homosexual/transgender activism

For one, it's hardly surprising. The man is only conservative economically, which seems to be the only thing much of America is interested in concerning what is 'conservative' and what is 'liberal'.
But even for all the indifference of moral issues like homosexuality, Trump has still managed to make the Right both amusingly and ironically fascist in how they go about anything concerning money- the amount of money going into the military, the amount of disdain for the lower class, the amount of insecurity when it comes to immigrants, the insult to other economies when America has always been viciously capitalist..

But yeah, let's talk about homosexuality- the least of this country's problems right now.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
[Regarding the UK's True Freedom Trust: an organization that shares Biblical teachings with Christians who have same sex desires] From helping people with unwanted same sex desires find their heterosexual potential to saying that heterosexual and homosexual attractions are on equal moral grounds; I'd say that is quite a change.

Maybe they realised the folly of conversion therapy, where the results are rarely positive?

Unlike so many other organizations that have had huge success with helping those with same sex desires leave the lifestyle and often times the desires behind: PFOX http://www.pfox.org/, NARTH (now known as the Alliance for Therapeutic Choice and Scientific Integrity: https://www.therapeuticchoice.com/, Pure Passion Ministries/
http://purepassion.us/ etc. etc. etc.) if True Freedom Trust didn't have success helping people find their heterosexual potential, that's one thing, but for a Christian based ministry to tell it's clients that the bible says that homosexual and heterosexual attractions are equal on moral grounds, that's insane.


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
So you were dealing with people who weren't professionals in dealing with childhood abuse and same sex attraction that often times comes with it.

Hardly a reason to give legitimate conversion/reparative therapy a bad rap don't cha think?

In the past I have dealt with professionals and non-professionals alike. They all seem to have many answers, none of which seemed to work.

I think we can come to an agreement that exorcism would fall under the "non-professional" category when it comes to trying to help people with same sex desires.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Would you tell the readers of this thread what you went through back when TFT was practicing conversion/reparative therapy?

I went through counselling and discussed what they believed the causes of same sex attraction to be, with a view to changing those attractions I had from homosexual to heterosexual. I was sold false hope that conversion therapy would work, that it would remove homosexual attraction from my life. It didn’t.

I wish that TOL'er who was tempted in his college days to be orally sodomized by another male would come around, as he might be able to help you with how he dealt with his same sex attractions (I keep forgetting his name, it was something like muster...)
That being said: If True Freedom Trust was anything back then like it is now, I'd demand your money back. While I understand that reparative/conversion therapy is illegal in the UK , there are plenty of great organizations here in the US that can help you if your heart is in it. BTW, as a Christian you hold an advantage, as you know being indwelled with the Holy Spirit and the change that comes with it can take time.

Like anything else in life: seek help from people who have been successful, not those who have failed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSpZXlLqSGE

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Donald Trump's pro homosexual/transgender activism

For one, it's hardly surprising.

Explain.

The man is only conservative economically,

Fully funding Planned Parenthood five times in his first 16 months in office doesn't make Donald Trump "conservative economically". I've got much more from where that came from if you're interested.

which seems to be the only thing much of America is interested in concerning what is 'conservative' and what is 'liberal'.
But even for all the indifference of moral issues like homosexuality, Trump has still managed to make the Right both amusingly and ironically fascist in how they go about anything concerning money- the amount of money going into the military, the amount of disdain for the lower class, the amount of insecurity when it comes to immigrants, the insult to other economies when America has always been viciously capitalist.

Wait, I thought that Donald Trump is "conservative economically"? Now he's a fascist?

But yeah, let's talk about homosexuality- the least of this country's problems right now.

I guess you didn't get the memo: This 5 part thread is for people interested in the truth about homosexuality and the agenda that came with it since the behavior became legal, it's not for those who don't have any desire to know the truth.

 

[ThermalCry]

Just wanted to pop in and say aCultureWarrior is a complete moron.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Just wanted to pop in and say aCultureWarrior is a complete moron.

Then I must be doing something very right ey TC (aka, aka aka)?

BTW, you might wanna work on your debate skills...oh wait, you can't defend the indefensible, never mind.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Returning to Donald Trump's pro LGBT activism, before and during his Presidency:

On June 19, 2017, President Trump proudly posed with Rhode Island Teacher of the Year, Nikos Giannopoulos, a proud and unrepentant homosexual. Giannopoulos asked the President if he could hold a fan and pose in a provocatively “gay” manner for his photo with the President and his wife Melania in the Oval Office, to which Trump said "Absolutely, go for it".

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3...mage/2017/06/19/07/trump-teacher.jpg?w968h681

Rhode Island's 'sassy' Teacher of the Year posed next to Trump with a black lace fan — and Trump loved it

June 17, 2017

Nikos Giannopoulos, Rhode Island's 2017 Teacher of the Year, posed next to President Donald Trump while holding a black lace fan and wearing a rainbow LGBTQ pride pin on his jacket. And Trump "loved it," Giannopoulos told NPR.
Giannopoulos posted the official White House photograph to Facebook on Thursday, which depicted him striking a memorable pose next to Trump and First Lady Melania Trump.
Rhode Island Teacher of the Year 2017 meets the 45th President of the United States. That's all. ," Giannopoulos' caption read.

Giannopoulos told NPR he opened the black fan as soon as he walked into the Oval Office because he is a "very sassy person." He added that Trump "loved it!"
"Trump complimented it right away," Giannopoulos said. "He said, 'I love the fan!' And he told me I had great style. Then, when I was ushered in for my private photo with the president and Melania, I was told I should put [the fan] away," he continued.
"So I just folded it up and held it at my side. But when it came time for the photo, I just asked the president, 'Do you mind if I use the fan for the photo?' He said, 'Absolutely go for it.' So I popped my fan and did my pose," Giannopoulos added...

https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...her-of-the-year-nikos-giannopoulos-fan-2017-6

Sigh, oh how I long for the day when the Commander in Chief protects children from sexual deviants instead of posing for photo-ops with them.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I should also mention that the proud and unrepentant homosexual that Donald Trump took a photo op with in the Oval Office (Nikos Giannopoulos) is the sponsor and coordinator of the Gay Straight Alliance at the school, Beacon Charter High School for the Arts in Woonsocket, Rhode Island.
http://www.ride.ri.gov/InsideRIDE/A...acher-named-2017-R-I-Teacher-of-the-Year.aspx

Similar to GLSEN (founded by Kevin "Fistgate" Jennings), the Gay-Straight Alliance indoctrinates sexually and gender confused children to the ways of sexual perversion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay–straight_alliance

 

[Crucifer]

I guess you didn't get the memo: This 5 part thread is for people interested in the truth about homosexuality and the agenda that came with it since the behavior became legal, it's not for those who don't have any desire to know the truth.

I'm against Lgbt, I just don't understand why you are so consumed by it that you would ignore what are graver issues at this present time over something that obviously is not going to stop progressing until God burns it away in a blaze of light.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I guess you didn't get the memo: This 5 part thread is for people interested in the truth about homosexuality and the agenda that came with it since the behavior became legal, it's not for those who don't have any desire to know the truth.

I'm against Lgbt

Disclaimer: "A disclaimer is a defensive measure, used generally with the purpose of protection from unwanted claims or liability."

"I am against LGBT, BUT..."

I just don't understand why you are so consumed by it that you would ignore what are graver issues at this present time over something that obviously is not going to stop progressing until God burns it away in a blaze of light.

(Sigh, so many usernames, yet he still uses the same m.o.). Why get involved in so-called "graver issues" (obviously indoctrinating children to the ways of sexual perversion isn't a "grave issue" in Crucifer's mind) if God is going to return and destroy everything in a blaze of light?

 

[Crucifer]

Disclaimer: "A disclaimer is a defensive measure, used generally with the purpose of protection from unwanted claims or liability."

"I am against LGBT, BUT..."

>Calling me a liar in my own statement that I believe Lgbt to be a moral wrong
because
I don't literally 100% agree with what he's saying

 

[aCultureWarrior]

>Calling me a liar in my own statement that I believe Lgbt to be a moral wrong
because
I don't literally 100% agree with what he's saying

A moral wrong that isn't a 'grave concern' of yours.

Stop by again but only if you have something to contribute to the thread.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Just when you thought things couldn't get any more insane:

Gamblers Doubling Down on Transgender Miss Universe Contestant to Win Pageant

Dec. 4, 2018

Miss Universe is breaking new ground at this year’s pageant with the first transgender contestant to ever compete for the crown, and those betting on the competition are declaring her a heavy favorite.

Angela Ponce won her qualifying rounds in Spain and will represent her country at the 2018 Miss Universe pageant in Bangkok, Thailand.
Ponce, who hails from Seville, was the first transgender woman to be crowned Miss Universe Spain and is competing to promote gender diversity and equality.
As the competition nears, online bookies are taking action, and Ponce has grown to become the clear favorite with current odds of +600.

Read more: https://theblast.com/miss-universe-spain-transgender-gambling-angela-ponce/

And all of this wouldn't be possible had Donald Trump not taken action:

Donald Trump Says Transgender Beauty Queen Can Compete In Miss Universe Pageant

April 4, 2012

Jenna Talackova, the Canadian transsexual beauty queen, is asking that Donald Trump eliminate the rule that Miss Universe contestants must be naturally born females.
I want Mr. Trump to state that this rule will be eliminated because I do not want any other woman to suffer from the discrimination that I have endured,” Talackova said during a press conference Tuesday.
“I have never asked for special consideration. I only wanted to compete,” Talackova said.
Talackova was originally disqualified from the 2012 Miss Universe Canada competition because she was not a “naturally born female,” according to Gloria Allred, Talackova’s attorney. Talackova was born a male but had sexual reassignment surgery at age 19...
The Trump organization announced Monday that it will not attempt to keep Talackova out of the competition.
“The Miss Universe Organization will allow Jenna Talackova to compete in the 2012 Miss Universe Canada pageant provided she meets the legal gender recognition requirements of Canada, and the standards established by other international competitions,” Michael D. Cohen, Trump’s executive vice president and special counsel, said in an email.
Read more: https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/don...y-queen-can-compete-in-miss-universe-pageant/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=BCkdF3WCB2s

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The Apostles' Creed
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

WATCH: Living US presidents recite the Christian Apostles’ Creed[at George Bush Sr.'s funeral] — except for evangelical ‘hero’ Donald Trump
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/wa...s-creed-except-evangelical-hero-donald-trump/

And what will Trump evanjellyfish supporters say in defense of this?

"At least he's not Hillary!"

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Traveling around the internet checking for reactions to President Donald Trump and his wife Bambi's refusal to sing hymns and recite the Apostles' Creed at George H. W. Bush's funeral (the media is making Bush out to be a Saint, but then I'm sure that being a witness at a faux homosexual wedding has nothing to do with that)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-bush-same-sex-wedding-witness-maine/2874227/

one atheist blogger stated that Donald Trump is "America's first atheist President". Needless to say, that didn't go over well with other atheists (but hey, even atheists can be right on occasion).

 

[ok doser]

The Apostles' Creed
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

A picture is worth a thousand words:


WATCH: Living US presidents recite the Christian Apostles’ Creed[at George Bush Sr.'s funeral] — except for evangelical ‘hero’ Donald Trump
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/wa...s-creed-except-evangelical-hero-donald-trump/

And what will Trump evanjellyfish supporters say in defense of this?

"At least he's not Hillary!"

because you believe they voted for him to be their spiritual leader? :kookoo:

 

[Idolater]

because you believe they voted for him to be their spiritual leader? :kookoo:

Melania's Catholic. The Apostles' Creed is a prayer in the rosary, and is recited at Mass during Lent (the Nicene Creed the rest of the time). She didn't need to read it off a piece of paper.