Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 4

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jgarden

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Now now, don't go dissing Ronald Reagan. As Governor of CA he was responsible for abortion, homosexuality and no-fault divorce becoming fixtures in our society, i.e., he was your kind of guy jgarden.



I'm sure in your moral relativist mind your above statement has some relevance to this thread and past US Presidents that were allegedly "conservative", but I willfully admit that if there was, I missed it.


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I suppose if Ted Cruz wanted to lie about being born in Canada, he could find out from your boy Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama) which birth certificate forger he used.

Make an issue out of it. Ted Cruz will ignore it as will other conservatives, as it's a non issue.



(Isn't the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd cute when they get excited over a non issue?)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/non?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/issue?s=t
Conservativism may be a relative term and its an historical fact that Reagan, GWH Bush and GW Bush were all far more conservative than the Democratic candidates that ran against them.

"ACultireWarrior" is a master at "bait and switch" and employing the same stock answers (bashing liberals cloaked in guise of pseudoChristianity) - irrespective of the topic.

1. He totally ignored my contention that it was the religious conservatives in Jewish society who demanded Christ's crucifixion - not "äCultureWarrior's" target of choice in this thread, the LGBT community.

2. ACW is well aware that it hasn't been the "Mrs. Bill Clinton" crowd who are on the record when it comes to questioning Ted Cruz's status as a natural-born citizen - its none other than Donald Trump whom Cruz has stood next to on the debate stage, but refuses to criticize!

https://web.archive.org/web/20150517191833/http://www.cleveland.com/n

3. I intend to hold "a CultureWarrior's" feet-to-the-fire and the more he evades answering the tough questions, the more it erodes his self-righteous platitudes.
 
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aCultureWarrior

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I suppose if Ted Cruz wanted to lie about being born in Canada, he could find out from your boy Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama) which birth certificate forger he used.

Make an issue out of it. Ted Cruz will ignore it as will other conservatives, as it's a non issue.

(Isn't the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd cute when they get excited over a non issue?)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/non?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/issue?s=t

Conservativism may be a relative term and its an historical fact that Reagan, GWH Bush and GW Bush were all far more conservative than the Democratic candidates that ran against them.

I believe the word you're looking for here is "moderate".

"ACultireWarrior" is a master at "bait and switch" and employing the same stock answers - irrespective of the topic.

1. He totally ignored my contention that it was the religious conservatives in Jewish society who demanded Christ's crucifixion - not "äCultureWarrior's" target of choice in this thread"gays!"

I willfully admit once more that I don't understand what the above rant has to do with American politics (you do realize that you're in a politics forum don't you jgarden?).

2. It hasn't been the "Mrs. Bill Clinton" crowd who are on the record questioning Ted Cruz's status as a natural-born citizen - its none other than Donald Trump!

Being that you're the only one talking about it in this thread, I can only assume that you're a Donald Trump supporter?

3. I intend to hold "a CultureWarrior's" feet-to-the-fire and the more he evades answering the tough questions, the more it erodes
his self-righteous platitudes.

(Does anyone know why jgarden speaks in the 3rd person?)

I hate to break the news to you jgarden (and you can share this with the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd), but the Cruz team checked with two former solicitor generals, one that worked for Bush Jr. and one that worked for your boy, and they both acknowledge that Ted Cruz is eligible to be POTUS.

Ted Cruz's team says this is the proof that he can run for US president despite his Canadian roots

In their [Harvard Law Review] article, Katyal and Clement argue that there is no uncertainty whatsoever about whether children of American citizens who were born abroad are "natural born citizens."

Both Katyal and Clement have served as the acting solicitor general of the US. Katyal held the post in the administration of President Barack Obama while Clement served under President George W. Bush. They began their article by noting that they may have different political views but are in complete agreement about the definition of a "natural born citizen."
http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-legal-argument-against-birthers-2015-3
 

jgarden

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I suppose if Ted Cruz wanted to lie about being born in Canada, he could find out from your boy Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama) which birth certificate forger he used.

Make an issue out of it. Ted Cruz will ignore it as will other conservatives, as it's a non issue.

(Isn't the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd cute when they get excited over a non issue?)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/non?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/issue?s=t



I believe the word you're looking for here is "moderate".



I willfully admit once more that I don't understand what the above rant has to do with American politics (you do realize that you're in a politics forum don't you jgarden?).



Being thI can only assume thatat you're the only one talking about it in this thread, you're a Donald Trump supporter?



(Does anyone know why jgarden speaks in the 3rd person?)

I hate to break the news to you jgarden (and you can share this with the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd), but the Cruz team checked with two former solicitor generals, one that worked for Bush Jr. and one that worked for your boy, and they both acknowledge that Ted Cruz is eligible to be POTUS.

Ted Cruz's team says this is the proof that he can run for US president despite his Canadian roots

In their [Harvard Law Review] article, Katyal and Clement argue that there is no uncertainty whatsoever about whether children of American citizens who were born abroad are "natural born citizens."

Both Katyal and Clement have served as the acting solicitor general of the US. Katyal held the post in the administration of President Barack Obama while Clement served under President George W. Bush. They began their article by noting that they may have different political views but are in complete agreement about the definition of a "natural born citizen."
http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-legal-argument-against-birthers-2015-3
- I believe the word you're looking ....

- you do realize that you're in a politics forum .....

- I hate to break the news to you .....

- Being the only one talking about it in this thread .....

- I can only assume that .....

- Does anyone know why ....

1. Nice try but no cigar "aCultureWarrior!" These are all "code phrases" to sidestep addressing "substance," and an attempt to redirect the discussion and regain control of the agenda by establishing your own terms of reference.

2. The whole premise of this thread is that LGBT should be criminalized based on Scripture, but when "jgarden" attempts to refute this position by referring to the Bible, ACW wants to deflect this by asserting that this is a "political," and "religion" is now off limits!

3. I'm not a Trump supporter - merely pointing out the hypocrisy that after 7 years of "hounding" Obama about his citizenship, conservatives are now refusing to hold "one-of-their-own" to the same standard.

4. I disagree with his politics, but Cruz is perfectly disqualified to be a presidential candidate. To my knowledge nobody on the political "left'' has actually made this an issue - here again we have another example of ACW going to great lengths addressing a question that was never asked while going to even greater lengths to avoid questions that were asked!
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

- I believe the word you're looking ....

- you do realize that you're in a politics forum .....

- I hate to break the news to you .....

- Being the only one talking about it in this thread .....

- I can only assume that .....

- Does anyone know why ....

1. Nice try but no cigar "aCultureWarrior!" These are all "code phrases" to sidestep addressing "substance," and an attempt to redirect the discussion and regain control of the agenda by establishing your own terms of reference.

You seem exceptionally tense tonight jgarden. Here, why don't you relax by watching this video of a senior Planned Parenthood executive haggling over the price of murdered baby parts? (It always sooooths the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd when they can watch one of their own in action).

Second Planned Parenthood Senior Executive Haggles Over Baby Parts Prices, Changes Abortion Methods


2. The whole premise of this thread is that LGBT should be criminalized based on Scripture, but when "jgarden" attempts to refute this position by referring to the Bible, ACW wants to deflect this by asserting that this is a "political," and "religion" is now off limits!

Actually not "the whole premise of this thread", I share facts about the LGBTQueer movement that even pagans and atheists should be concerned about (like the emotional and physical molestation of innocent children).

3. I'm not a Trump supporter - merely pointing out the hypocrisy that after 7 years of "hounding" Obama about his citizenship, conservatives are now refusing to hold "one-of-their-own" to the same standard.

So you're finally admitting that your boy Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama) was born in Kenya? If his mother was a US citizen, like Ted Cruz's mom is, why deny his birthplace?

4. I disagree with his politics,

(Gee, and Ted Cruz was so looking forward to jgarden's support).

but Cruz is perfectly disqualified to be a presidential candidate. To my knowledge nobody on the political "left'' has actually made this an issue - here again we have another example of ACW going to great lengths addressing a question that was never asked while going to even greater lengths to avoid questions that were asked!

You're making it an issue, and the last time I checked, you're on the "political left".
 

jgarden

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

You seem exceptionally tense tonight jgarden. Here, why don't you relax by watching this video of a senior Planned Parenthood executive haggling over the price of murdered baby parts? (It always sooooths the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd when they can watch one of their own in action).

Second Planned Parenthood Senior Executive Haggles Over Baby Parts Prices, Changes Abortion Methods


Actually not "the whole premise of this thread", I share facts about the LGBTQueer movement that even pagans and atheists should be concerned about (like the emotional and physical molestation of innocent children).

So you're finally admitting that your boy Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama) was born in Kenya? If his mother was a US citizen, like Ted Cruz's mom is, why deny his birthplace?

(Gee, and Ted Cruz was so looking forward to jgarden's support).

You're making it an issue, and the last time I checked, you're on the "political left".
ÄWC is pulling out all the stops to avoid addressing substantive issues.
Does anyone really believe that ACW's campaign against the LGBT is not based on his selective interpretation of the Bible"?

The questions that AWC refuses to answer remain

1. Was it not the religious conservatives in society, the group with which AWC most closely identifies, who orchestrated the crucifixion of Christ? Conversely, the LGBT community that AWC wants "recriminalized" had no part in this conspiracy!

In fact, it was not the common sinners but those self-righteous, judgmental conservatives who focused on observing just the letter-of-the-law to the point of subverted God's message by putting obstacles in the way of sinners seeking salvation, for whom Christ saved His severest criticisms in His ministry.

2. Why have conservative birthers," who spent the last 7 years accusing Obama of not having a valid American citizenship, not holding one-of-your-own to the same standard?
It is Donald Trump, not the Clintons, no matter how many times AWC contradicts the record, that has stated that Cruz is not a "natural born citizen."
 
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TheDuke

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I agree, let's try and keep these short. For instance I'm not interested in discussing politics.


The supposed "freedom" to engage in immoral behaviors isn't freedom, it's being enslaved.
And what does that mean. Yet again, it seems you're trying to be a moral arbiter for me. Thanks, but no thanks!



Let's stick with the topic of human sexuality. Moral absolute: One man, one woman, united in matrimony (for life, with a couple of exceptions allowing for divorce).
When man strayed from that absolute, moral decay followed (abortion, homosexuality, pornography, cohabitation/no fault divorce, etc.)
Sorry, but that's a bad example. Marriage is not related to sexuality, even though ideally both are combined, they can, and had been separated. So try again......
I find it so amusing that you relate porn, abortion and legal rules to the concept of marriage. Especially since these seem to be much more of an issue and actual problem in and around the bible belt. Irony, it's so sweet.



I've pointed out numerous times throughout this 4 part thread that Islam and the LGBTQueer movement have so much in common: Their out and out HATRED of Judeo/Christian doctrine and pedophile/pederasty being two commonalities.
Have you heard of the term "red herring"?
Such utter complete ignorance of gay christians and while we're at it, church sanctioned pederasty.




Don't you find it rather...ahem...queer that heterosexuals aren't afflicted with it in westernized countries but for some reason it runs rampant amongst heterosexuals in Africa?
nice pun, unfortunately wrong. Firstly as I've mentioned before, Africans have a serious problem due to lack of access/understanding to/about condoms. Then I've got bad news for you, heteros in our culture can and do have Aids.



A medical doctor can't give someone a pill and cure someone who has had underlying sexuality issues since childhood.
dodging the question, are we? And you're still wrong, cause real doctors can also specialize in psychotherapy.





Again: At least you're not stating that God approves of homosexuality. If there is anything 'honest' about your eggnosticism/atheism, it's that.
So, I wonder what you think is dishonest about it?
Also, I don't want to discuss the contents of the bible with you, since obviously you're much more familiar with it, though do me this one favour and tell me: where does it say that your god is against gays?
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

You seem exceptionally tense tonight jgarden. Here, why don't you relax by watching this video of a senior Planned Parenthood executive haggling over the price of murdered baby parts? (It always sooooths the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd when they can watch one of their own in action).

Second Planned Parenthood Senior Executive Haggles Over Baby Parts Prices, Changes Abortion Methods

Actually not "the whole premise of this thread", I share facts about the LGBTQueer movement that even pagans and atheists should be concerned about (like the emotional and physical molestation of innocent children).

So you're finally admitting that your boy Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama) was born in Kenya? If his mother was a US citizen, like Ted Cruz's mom is, why deny his birthplace?

(Gee, and Ted Cruz was so looking forward to jgarden's support).

You're making it an issue, and the last time I checked, you're on the "political left".

ÄWC is pulling out all the stops to avoid addressing substantive issues.

Where are my manners jgarden? I showed the sequel to the filthy barbarians from Planned Parenthood haggling over murdered baby body parts before showing the original version.

Eating a salad while haggling over murdered baby body parts


Could it be that you despise Ted Cruz like you do because he's on the front lines when it comes to defunding the baby murderers at Planned Parenthood?

Ted Cruz Continues Commitment to Defund Planned Parenthood
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ntinues-commitment-defund-planned-parenthood/

Does anyone really believe that ACW's campaign against the LGBT is not based on his selective interpretation of the Bible"?

The questions that AWC refuses to answer remain

1. Was it not the religious conservatives in society, the group with which AWC most closely identifies, who orchestrated the crucifixion of Christ? Conversely, the LGBT community that AWC wants "recriminalized" had no part in this conspiracy!

In fact, it was not the common sinners but those self-righteous, judgmental conservatives who focused on observing just the letter-of-the-law to the point of subverted God's message by putting obstacles in the way of sinners seeking salvation, for whom Christ saved His most severest criticisms in His ministry.

Are you implying that Jesus Christ was crucified because He defended homosexuals jgarden? (And here I thought all along it was because He refused to denounce that He was the Son of God. The things I learn from secular humanists).

2. Why have conservative birthers," who spent the last 7 years accusing Obama of not having a valid American citizenship, not holding one-of-your-own to the same standard?
It is Donald Trump, not the Clintons, no matter how many times AWC contradicts the record, that has stated that Cruz is not a "natural born citizen."

Are you aware that it was two (not just one, but two) loyal Mrs. Bill Clinton supporters (Linda Starr and Phillip Berg) who started the whole birther movement jgarden?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/

While the above article says that there is no evidence to suggest that Mrs. Bill Clinton promoted the birther movement, I don't recall ever hearing her tell her supporters to "back off".

Do you have any information showing that Mrs. Bill Clinton (feminazis hate it when they're called by their husband's name) told Starr and Berg and the rest of her followers to cease and desist?
 

aCultureWarrior

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Hell has welcomed a new resident:

Robert Spitzer, 'most influential psychiatrist,' dies at 83

12/27/15

SEATTLE (AP) — Dr. Robert Spitzer — a psychiatrist who played a leading role in establishing agreed-upon standards to describe mental disorders and eliminating homosexuality's designation as a pathology — died Friday in Seattle. He was 83.

Spitzer died of heart problems, said his wife, Columbia University Professor Emerita Janet Williams.

Dr. Spitzer's work on several editions of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or the D.S.M., defined all of the major disorders "so all in the profession could agree on what they were seeing," said Williams, who worked with him on D.S.M.-III, which was published in 1980 and became a best-selling book.

"That was a major breakthrough in the profession," she said.

Spitzer came up with agreed-upon definitions of mental disorders by convening meetings of experts in each diagnostic category and taking notes on their observations, the New York Times reported.

"Rather than just appealing to authority, the authority of Freud, the appeal was: Are there studies? What evidence is there?" Spitzer told the New Yorker magazine in 2005. "The people I appointed had all made a commitment to be guided by data."

Dr. Allen Frances, a professor emeritus of psychiatry at Duke University and editor of a later edition of the manual, told the Times that Spitzer "was by far the most influential psychiatrist of his time."

Gay-rights activists credit Dr. Spitzer with removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders in the D.S.M. in 1973. He decided to push for the change after he met with gay activists and determined that homosexuality could not be a disorder if gay people were comfortable with their sexuality.

At the time of the psychiatric profession's debate over homosexuality, Dr. Spitzer told the Washington Post: "A medical disorder either had to be associated with subjective distress — pain — or general impairment in social function."

Dr. Jack Drescher, a gay psychoanalyst in New York, told the Times that Spitzer's successful push to remove homosexuality from the list of disorders was a major advance for gay rights. "The fact that gay marriage is allowed today is in part owed to Bob Spitzer," he said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/robert-spitzer-most-influential-psychiatrist-dies-83-045457942.html

Spitzer was once an advocate of reparative therapy. How sad that he went from a culture of life to a culture of death.

A02z_020_Spitzer.jpg
 

aCultureWarrior

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I agree, let's try and keep these short. For instance I'm not interested in discussing politics.

You're in a political forum, but I'll make exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
The supposed "freedom" to engage in immoral behaviors isn't freedom, it's being enslaved.

And what does that mean. Yet again, it seems you're trying to be a moral arbiter for me. Thanks, but no thanks!

I'm simply stating that people who have accepted Jesus Christ into their life and are obedient to His Word, have a freedom that you and other proud and unrepentant sinners can't relate to. You should read some of the testimonies of EX homosexuals who have accepted Christ as their Savior in the index on Page 1, they'll give you an idea what true freedom is all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Let's stick with the topic of human sexuality. Moral absolute: One man, one woman, united in matrimony (for life, with a couple of exceptions allowing for divorce).
When man strayed from that absolute, moral decay followed (abortion, homosexuality, pornography, cohabitation/no fault divorce, etc.)

Sorry, but that's a bad example. Marriage is not related to sexuality, even though ideally both are combined, they can, and had been separated. So try again......

Companionship, sex and procreation. Those who engage in homosexuality fail at all three.

Purposes of marriage: same-sex "marriage" strikes out
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/140528

I find it so amusing that you relate porn, abortion and legal rules to the concept of marriage. Especially since these seem to be much more of an issue and actual problem in and around the bible belt. Irony, it's so sweet.

I'm pointing out some of the major causes of divorce as well as the destructive culture that our current society engages in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I've pointed out numerous times throughout this 4 part thread that Islam and the LGBTQueer movement have so much in common: Their out and out HATRED of Judeo/Christian doctrine and pedophile/pederasty being two commonalities.

Have you heard of the term "red herring"?
Such utter complete ignorance of gay christians and while we're at it, church sanctioned pederasty.

Why do you think God-hating liberals defend Islam so much?

"Their common foe is . . . Christianity."

Islam and Secular Humanism are Two Sides of the Same Coin
http://americanvision.org/3391/islam-and-secular-humanism-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Don't you find it rather...ahem...queer that heterosexuals aren't afflicted with it in westernized countries but for some reason it runs rampant amongst heterosexuals in Africa?

nice pun, unfortunately wrong. Firstly as I've mentioned before, Africans have a serious problem due to lack of access/understanding to/about condoms. Then I've got bad news for you, heteros in our culture can and do have Aids.

image006.jpg



Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
A medical doctor can't give someone a pill and cure someone who has had underlying sexuality issues since childhood.

dodging the question, are we? And you're still wrong, cause real doctors can also specialize in psychotherapy.

Would you rather have a General Practitioner do heart surgery on you or a specialist? Therapists who have studied what causes homosexual desires have and continue to help people who wish to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Again: At least you're not stating that God approves of homosexuality. If there is anything 'honest' about your eggnosticism/atheism, it's that.

So, I wonder what you think is dishonest about it?

I see that you used the term "gay christians" above, so I strike my earlier comment.

Also, I don't want to discuss the contents of the bible with you, since obviously you're much more familiar with it, though do me this one favour and tell me: where does it say that your god is against gays?

He loves mankind so much that He died a horrific death for us. He wants us to repent and accept Him as our Savior instead of spending eternity in damnation. If that isn't love, nothing is.
 

jgarden

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

You seem exceptionally tense tonight jgarden. Here, why don't you relax by watching this video of a senior Planned Parenthood executive haggling over the price of murdered baby parts? (It always sooooths the Mrs. Bill Clinton crowd when they can watch one of their own in action).

Second Planned Parenthood Senior Executive Haggles Over Baby Parts Prices, Changes Abortion Methods

Where are my manners jgarden? I showed the sequel to the filthy barbarians from Planned Parenthood haggling over murdered baby body parts before showing the original version.

Eating a salad while haggling over murdered baby body parts

In case it has slipped AWC's memory (and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt) the title of this thread is "Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized!"

Now that AWC suddenly wants to shift to another topic he can always exercise his privilege by starting another thread - but if he continues to post in this thread we expect him to remain on topic!

So you're finally admitting that your boy Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama) was born in Kenya? If his mother was a US citizen, like Ted Cruz's mom is, why deny his birthplace?

(Gee, and Ted Cruz was so looking forward to jgarden's support).

You're making it an issue, and the last time I checked, you're on the "political left".

Could it be that you despise Ted Cruz like you do because he's on the front lines when it comes to defunding the baby murderers at Planned Parenthood?

Ted Cruz Continues Commitment to Defund Planned Parenthood

These are all "red herrings" introduced by AWC in a futile attempt to "bait" his adversaries into following his own private agenda. If you're not prepared to adhere to the topic that you set yourself, that refrain from posting on this thread!

Are you implying that Jesus Christ was crucified because He defended homosexuals jgarden? (And here I thought all along it was because He refused to denounce that He was the Son of God. The things I learn from secular humanists).
As AWC is well aware, the Bible contains no public pronouncements made by Christ concerning "homosexuality" in His ministry.

What the New Testament does contain, however, are repeated criticisms of the conservative religious leaders and their followers - AWC's kind of people!
- The 7 Woes
- The Parable of the Good Samaritan
- The Parable of the Tenants and the Vineyard

THE Woman Taken In Adultery
John 7:53-8:11 (NIV)

53 Then they all went home,

8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them.

3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.

5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.

7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Jesus refused to stone or judge the "adultress" that would have been executed according to Mosaic Law.

Why does AWC think that this incident does do apply to modern day Christians and why does he refuse to follow that example provided by Christ - and apply it to "gays?"

These are the fundamental questions that AWC cannot evade!
 
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Nazaroo

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Quote:
THE Woman Taken In Adultery
John 7:53-8:11 (NIV)

53 Then they all went home,

8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them.

3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.

5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.

7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
Jesus also refused to stone or judge the "adultress" that would have been executed according to Mosaic Law.

Why does AWC think that this incident does do apply to modern day Christians and why does he refuse to follow that example provided by Christ - and apply it to "gays?"

These are the fundamental questions that AWC cannot evade!
I see Wrongy McWrong has posted again.

Jesus refused to stone the 'adulteress' because MOSAIC Law forbade it, bonehead.

The Pharisee party was condemned for lying about the Mosaic Law,
not for trying to 'enforce' it.

Here, read some real commentary on this story:

Modern Commentary:

The Best of the Commentators - on Jn 8:1-11
Online Christian Commentary - Our 'in house' study


Schneider (1997) - psychological factors
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

Where are my manners jgarden? I showed the sequel to the filthy barbarians from Planned Parenthood haggling over murdered baby body parts before showing the original version.

Eating a salad while haggling over murdered baby body parts

In case it has slipped AWC's memory (and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt) the title of this thread is "Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized!"

Now that AWC suddenly wants to shift to another topic he can always exercise his privilege by starting another thread - but if he continues to post in this thread we expect him to remain on topic!

(Why is jgarden talking in the 3rd person?).

You'll note in the index on page 1 that their is a very close tie between the homosexual and abortion movements. In addition to that we were talking about Ted Cruz, who as mentioned, wants to defund Planned Parenthood.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Could it be that you despise Ted Cruz like you do because he's on the front lines when it comes to defunding the baby murderers at Planned Parenthood?

These are all "red herrings" introduced by AWC in a futile attempt to "bait" his adversaries into following his own private agenda. If you're not prepared to adhere to the topic that you set yourself, that refrain from posting on this thread!

The recriminalization of homosexuality, abortion and other behaviors that have destroyed the nucleus of society (the traditional family) and invaluable institutions is without a doubt an "agenda" of mine and other Christians, as well as non-believers who believe in decency. Since I've been running this now 4 part thread for a few years now, there is nothing "private" about it.


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Are you implying that Jesus Christ was crucified because He defended homosexuals jgarden? (And here I thought all along it was because He refused to denounce that He was the Son of God. The things I learn from secular humanists).

As AWC is well aware, the Bible contains no public pronouncements made by Christ concerning "homosexuality" in His ministry.

He didn't have to, it was discussed already in the Old Testament.
You might want to read Matthew 19, it will help a terribly morally confused person such as yourself understand the teachings of Jesus Christ/the Son of God/God in the flesh.

What the New Testament does contain are repeated criticisms of the conservative religious leaders and their followers - AWS's kind of people!
- The 7 Woes
- The Parable of the Good Samaritan
- The Parable of the Tenants and the Vineyard

Get back to me when you can tell me what that has do with a society legislating laws that accept sexual perversion.

THE Woman Taken In Adultery
John 7:53-8:11 (NIV)...

Jesus also refused to stone or judge the "adultress" that would have been executed according to Mosaic Law.

Discussed numerous times throughout this 4 part thread. It takes two to commit adultery. No man stepped forward to admit that he engaged in adultery with the woman, so it wasn't a prosecutable offense. If Jesus was an anarchist like you're claiming that He was, then He would have went to the prisons and attempted to free the criminals and spoke out against laws against sexual immorality.

(Sigh, jgarden tries so hard).

Why does AWC think that this incident does do apply to modern day Christians and why does he refuse to follow that example provided by Christ - and apply it to "gays?"

These are the fundamental questions that AWC cannot evade!

The role of civil government is defined in Romans 13:4, as well as many other verses in Scripture.
 

jgarden

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I see Wrongy McWrong has posted again.

Jesus refused to stone the 'adulteress' because MOSAIC Law forbade it, bonehead.

The Pharisee party was condemned for lying about the Mosaic Law,
not for trying to 'enforce' it.

Here, read some real commentary on this story:

Modern Commentary:

The Best of the Commentators - on Jn 8:1-11
Online Christian Commentary - Our 'in house' study


Schneider (1997) - psychological factors
Lev. 20:10 ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

Deut. 22:22-24 “If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you.”

Under Roman law, the teachers of the law and the Pharisees did not have the authority to execute their fellow Jews. In addition, there is not mention of the fate of the male adulterer who was equally guilty under Mosaic Law.

Jesus, however, chose not to respond according to the letter-of-the-law but went to the heart of the matter - if He wanted to sidestep the matter based on Roman and Mosaic Law, He would have said so!

This incident was included in the Bible to serve a purpose - and it was not to instruct the reader about the legal technicalities of Hebrew and Roman law upon which Nazaroo and AWX are basing their criticisms.

Unfortunately they are more concerned about promoting their personal agendas than attempting to understand the significance of this incident.
 
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Nazaroo

New member
Under Roman law, the teachers of the law and the Pharisees did not have the authority
to execute their fellow Jews.
In addition, there is not mention of the fate of the male adulterer
who was equally guilty under Mosaic Law.

Wrongy McWrongWrong

You are (nknowingly?) quoting commentaries and ideas from 400 years ago.

Get up to speed bonehead.

The absence of the male party regarding adultery is irrelevant,
even to Mosaic Law as Hillel, Shemai, and Jesus already knew:

The man is ALWAYS stoned to death for adultery,
while the woman could be innocent, so a trial was required.

No trial at all was required for a man,
because he was AUTOMATICALLY put to death,
and there was no legal way to avoid the Death penalty.

In the case before Jesus, it was likely that the man was already killed on the spot,
where he was 'caught in the act' by the husband.

The only legal question (remaining) was whether the woman was to be killed.
Because according the Country/City Law she could have screamed and been raped,
i.e., be INNOCENT.



The "country/city" clause in the Law has the obvious purpose of establishing common-sense conditions that protect a woman from both rape and the double-jeopardy of false accusations after the fact:
"If the young virgin was betrothed,
and a man...lays with her in the city,
...you shall stone them both to death...

but if in the countryside the man forces her,
then the man only shall die...
for she [obviously] cried out,
and there was no one to save her."

(Deut. 22:23-25)

Even though 'technically' they might claim this woman was "in the city", such a literal interpretation of the Law would be a monstrous breach of its intent. Obviously it could not apply fairly to a mute woman or someone who was gagged, threatened with a knife, or even blackmailed, to name just a few examples.


(See for example the story in Greek Daniel about the woman accused. These stories were well known to Jews for centuries)

At the time of the Great Festivals, with over a MILLION visitors to Jerusalem,
most people were staying in tents (Festival of Booths) outside the city walls.
It is likely that the adultery took place among foreign Jews, the man was killed instantly
by her husband, and the woman was taken to the Legal Experts for consultation via Sanhedrin.

They simply stopped by Jesus teaching in the Temple for a legal opinion.




Jesus, however, chose not to respond according to the letter-of-the-law
but went to the heart of the matter
- if He wanted to sidestep the matter based on
Roman and Mosaic Law, He would have said so!
More preacher nonsense and double-speak.
First understand the Law, then give a fruity sermon on it.
Call me when you get back from seminary, where they approve of homos.
The Law and Rabbinical views were available to everyone in the Temple.

Jesus wasn't free to give a 'heart of the matter' opinion.
You say he didn't sidestep but did sidestep at the same time!
In other words, self-contradictory nonsense.


This incident was included in the Bible to serve a purpose
- and it was not to instruct the reader about the legal technicalities
of Hebrew and Roman law upon which Nazaroo and AWX are basing their criticisms.

Unfortunately they are more concerned about promoting their personal agendas
than attempting to understand the significance of this incident
.
Wrong again.

Its you and your modern liberal personal agenda that is preventing you from
understanding that Jerusalem at the time of Jesus was not a liberal university setting.

The men had a real captive, they had the power and intent to rule according to Torah,
and they had the authority to kill if needed.

Your personal agenda and bias prevents you from seeing the incident
as 1st century Jews actually saw it.


Good luck with that, when you can't even read the Mishnah, never mind the Torah.
 

jgarden

BANNED
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Wrongy McWrongWrong

You are (nknowingly?) quoting commentaries and ideas from 400 years ago.

Get up to speed bonehead.

The absence of the male party regarding adultery is irrelevant,
even to Mosaic Law as Hillel, Shemai, and Jesus already knew:

The man is ALWAYS stoned to death for adultery,
while the woman could be innocent, so a trial was required.

No trial at all was required for a man,
because he was AUTOMATICALLY put to death,
and there was no legal way to avoid the Death penalty.

In the case before Jesus, it was likely that the man was already killed on the spot,
where he was 'caught in the act' by the husband.

The only legal question (remaining) was whether the woman was to be killed.
Because according the Country/City Law she could have screamed and been raped,
i.e., be INNOCENT.



The "country/city" clause in the Law has the obvious purpose of establishing common-sense conditions that protect a woman from both rape and the double-jeopardy of false accusations after the fact:
"If the young virgin was betrothed,
and a man...lays with her in the city,
...you shall stone them both to death...

but if in the countryside the man forces her,
then the man only shall die...
for she [obviously] cried out,
and there was no one to save her."

(Deut. 22:23-25)

Even though 'technically' they might claim this woman was "in the city", such a literal interpretation of the Law would be a monstrous breach of its intent. Obviously it could not apply fairly to a mute woman or someone who was gagged, threatened with a knife, or even blackmailed, to name just a few examples.



At the time of the Great Festivals, with over a MILLION visitors to Jerusalem,
most people were staying in tents (Festival of Booths) outside the city walls.
It is likely that the adultery took place among foreign Jews, the man was killed instantly
by her husband, and the woman was taken to the Legal Experts for consultation via Sanhedrin.

They simply stopped by Jesus teaching in the Temple for a legal opinion.
More preacher nonsense.
First understand the Law, then give a fruity sermon on it.
Call me when you get back from seminary, where they approve of homos.

Wrong again.

Its you and your modern liberal personal agenda that is preventing you from
understanding that Jerusalem at the time of Jesus was not a liberal university setting.

The men had a real captive, they had the power and intent to rule according to Torah,
and they had the authority to kill if needed.

Your personal agenda and bias prevents you from seeing the incident
as 1st century Jews actually saw it.


Good luck with that, when you can't even read the Mishnah, never mind the Torah.
Long on bluster and rhetoric but short on documented facts!
 

Nazaroo

New member
Long on bluster and rhetoric but short on documented facts!


The commentaries I posted quote Hillel, Shimei, and 30 other scholars,
and cover expert opinions over a period of 400 years.



Bibliography

Cited Authors and works:

Burgon, John, Causes of Corruption..., (1882)
Bushnell, Katharine, God's Word to Women, (1925)
Clarke, Adam, Commentary, (1826)
DeLashmutt, Gary, The Woman Caught In Adultery, (2007)
Derrett, Duncan, New Testament Studies, Vol 10 (1964)
Kelly, William, John - Introductory Lectures, (1886)
Jamieson, Robert, Commentary: John, (1871)
O'Day, Gail, A Study in Misreading, (1992)
Heil, John Paul, The Story of the Adulteress Reconsidered, (1993)
Jackson, Wayne, The Current Perversion of John 8:1-11, (1999)
Painter, John, A Response to 'Liar, Liar', (1999)
Pink, Arthur, Exposition of the Gospel of John, (c. 1950)
Quesnel, Pasquier, Epitome of the Morals of the Evangelists, (c. 1671)
Robertson, A. T. , Word Pictures of the NT, (c. 1950)
Samuel, Rabbi , Talmud, (c. 200 A.D.)
Schneider, Matthew , Writing in the Dust..., (c. 1997)
Stedman, Ray C. , Judging the Judges, (c. 1985)
Stier, Rudolph Ewald, Reden Jesu, (1851)
Wilson, A. W., A Study in Intrinsic Probability, (2004)





The quotation from Deuteronomy (City/Country Law) is probably
the most important Law on Adultery in the whole Torah,
but you apparently didn't know about it at all.

Thanks for your UNexpert opinion.
We'll be sure to file that here:


41ViZP7qhSL._SY300_.jpg
 

jgarden

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Acts 7:54-60 (NIV)
The Stoning of Stephen

54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Whether seeking the permission of the Roman governor, as in the case of Jesus, was also required for the execution of ordinary Jews, such as the women caught in adultery, is unknown.

What is a matter of record, however, is that it was the members of the Sanhedrin and not the Romans, were responsible in Stephen's death and that Paul had been present at the time.

Nazaroo has gone to great lengths to inform us about his vast knowledge of Rabbinical Law and Jewish scholarship BUT he has not articulated as to why Mosaic Law would not apply in this instance, and what was John's purpose for the inclusion of this incident in his Gospel if it was not to show Christ's mercy and forgiveness!
 
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TheDuke

New member
You're in a political forum, but I'll make exceptions.
You're correct, my bad. I meant I'm less interested in talking about politicians (like Cruz) and more about your opinions on the topic.





I'm simply stating that people who have accepted Jesus Christ into their life and are obedient to His Word, have a freedom that you and other proud and unrepentant sinners can't relate to.
That's very much possible. To each his own. That's why I'm not going to criticize your actions with regard to christian doctrine about sin and which commandments in the bible you don't actually follow.
From my perspective: it's your life and your choice. All I'm asking is that you treat others in the same way and don't interfere with their lives.




Companionship, sex and procreation. Those who engage in homosexuality fail at all three.
You couldn't be more wrong.
But as we all know, a picture is worth a 1000 words, so enjoy :)

article-2744123-210EEA2500000578-676_634x926.jpg





Why do you think God-hating liberals defend Islam so much?
"Their common foe is . . . Christianity."
I'm really amazed at how you live in a bubble. Has it ever occurred to you that there are plenty of religious liberals? Has it ever occurred to you that not all are defending islam? (pro-tip: listen to Hitchens) Has is ever occurred to you that muslims hate EVERYONE? the Sharia for instance allows for people with other religions to live under it while they pay a tax, whereas atheists are to be beheaded instantly?

You really should get out more!



Don't you find it rather...ahem...queer that heterosexuals aren't afflicted with it in westernized countries but for some reason it runs rampant amongst heterosexuals in Africa?
Thanks for proving my point with your own data :)





Would you rather have a General Practitioner do heart surgery on you or a specialist? Therapists who have studied what causes homosexual desires have and continue to help people who wish to change.
Oh I see, you think that these "conversion specialists" know what they're doing. So check this out:

http://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy
http://www.livescience.com/50453-why-gay-conversion-therapy-harmful.html

If I were gay, I'd stay the hell away from them! :luigi:



I see that you used the term "gay christians" above, so I strike my earlier comment.
Wait, does that mean you really think that there is no such thing?
Oh the wishful thinking......



Also, I don't want to discuss the contents of the bible with you, since obviously you're much more familiar with it, though do me this one favour and tell me: where does it say that your god is against gays?
He loves mankind so much that He died a horrific death for us. He wants us to repent and accept Him as our Savior instead of spending eternity in damnation. If that isn't love, nothing is.
Well, interesting. But how does your answer relate to my question?


PS: That is one wretched kind o' love. "saving" us from the very hell he created. Great!!!!!
 

aCultureWarrior

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The absence of the male party regarding adultery is irrelevant,...

That's like saying the absence of someone who was a victim of theft is irrelevant.

... while the woman could be innocent, so a trial was required.

You are correct; in a trial someone comes forward to state that he participated in the adulterous act or two witnesses would come forward to testify to observing it.

In the case of Jesus letting the accused adulterous walk free (yet telling her to "sin no more", remember that He is God and knew that she committed the sinful act) no witnesses came forward so it wasn't a prosecutable offense.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

John 8: 10-11

I discussed the ancient Roman justice system briefly in Part 3 with Arthurrrrr Brain.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4270039&postcount=6695

http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub369/item2056.html
 
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