Why didn't Jesus want His disciples to make Him known before the 'DBR' ?

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
"
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

16 And charged them that they should not make him known:

17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
"

It had something to do with Gentiles. That's Paul's bailiwick.

Jesus did teach His disciples the then-future 'DBR' (the death, burial and Resurrection of Christ) during His earthly ministry. And He taught them to not preach about Himself, and this scripture, quoted above, is the reason why.

(Matthew 12 above.)
 
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glorydaz

Well-known member
"
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

16 And charged them that they should not make him known:

17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
"

It had something to do with Gentiles. That's Paul's bailiwick.

Jesus did teach His disciples the then-future 'DBR' (the death, burial and Resurrection of Christ) during His earthly ministry. And He taught them to not preach about Himself, and this scripture, quoted above, is the reason why.

(Matthew 12 above.)
Jesus came to die.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from henc
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Jesus came to die.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from henc
Which part of the OP do you disagree with? Do you 'take issue' with anything in the OP?
 

Tambora

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"
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

16 And charged them that they should not make him known:

17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
"

It had something to do with Gentiles. That's Paul's bailiwick.

Jesus did teach His disciples the then-future 'DBR' (the death, burial and Resurrection of Christ) during His earthly ministry. And He taught them to not preach about Himself, and this scripture, quoted above, is the reason why.

(Matthew 12 above.)
Because the Gentile nations were giver over to the rulers (gods/elohim) of this world at the Tower of Babel, and if the rulers (gods/elohim) had known that His death would be the nail in the coffin for them (gods/elohim) then they would not have influenced to have Him killed.

1 Corinthians 2 ESV
(6) Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away.
(7) But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory.
(8) None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


Ephesians 6 ESV
(11) Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
(12) For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Because the Gentile nations were giver over to the rulers (gods/elohim) of this world at the Tower of Babel, and if the rulers (gods/elohim) had known that His death would be the nail in the coffin for them (gods/elohim) then they would not have influenced to have Him killed.

1 Corinthians 2 ESV
(6) Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away.
(7) But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory.
(8) None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


Ephesians 6 ESV
(11) Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
(12) For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Yep, the god of this world.

Had satan known about the mystery kingdom of God, where all men could FREELY enter through faith in His blood.....

1 Cor. 1:1-2
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Of course, there were other things that satan would want to stop like our assurance of salvation when we're sealed with the Spirit. That was also part of the mystery kept secret.
 

Tambora

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The significance of the Tower of Babel and the dividing of mankind

Here's the short version ......

God gave up (for lack of a better term) mankind at Tower of Babel because they rebelled against YHWH and went after other gods.
So God says, "You want to serve other gods/elohim, have at it".
He divided them into 70 nations (according to the number of the sons of God (sons of God = elohim), and allotted those gods/elohim to be rulers of them.

Deuteronomy 32:7-8 ESV​
(7) Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you, your elders, and they will tell you.​
(8) When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.​
Deuteronomy 4:19 ESV​
(19) And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them, things that the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.​
Deuteronomy 29:25-26 ESV​
(25) Then people will say, ‘It is because they abandoned the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt,​
(26) and went and served other gods and worshiped them, gods whom they had not known and whom he had not allotted to them.


And from the 70 nations divided out at the Tower of Babel God would create from them His own remnant that would be called by His name.
God chooses Abraham to create His own group of people, a nation separate from all others.
God chose a man (Abraham) with a barren wife so everyone would know God's remnant people were supernaturally created by The Most High God (YHWH), not according to the flesh but according to promise.

Remember, Israel was created from Gentiles.

Eze_16:3 and say, Thus says the Lord GOD to Jerusalem: Your origin and your birth are of the land of the Canaanites; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite.​
Eze_16:45 You are the daughter of your mother, who loathed her husband and her children; and you are the sister of your sisters, who loathed their husbands and their children. Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite.​

And with Israel YHWH would battle with the gods of those nations and the people that serve them on many occasions throughout scripture.

But let us not forget that it was not only Abraham and his descendants that had people who worshipped The Most High God (YHWH).
Recall the story of Melchizadek who was not a descendant of Abraham but had the faith of Abraham for the same Most High God.
The same with Naaman.

Likewise (as at the Tower of Babel), Israel would be divided and dispersed due to idolatry, which made even more little remnant cells of believers throughout the Gentile nations.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Good stuff! Especially referencing Namaan . . .
... Remember, Israel was created from Gentiles. ...
... Recall the story of Melchizadek who was not a descendant of Abraham ...
The same with Naaman. ...
Look at Luke 4:25
"
. . . I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. 28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
"
Namaan was even baptized!
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Gods, plural.
The gods/elohim allotted to the 70 nations at the Tower of Babel when mankind was divided.
A distinction without a difference. Satan is the only one called the god of this world, and he isn't a "GOD" at all.
I like the way Paul puts it here --- "rulers of the darkness"

Ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
 

Tambora

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Good stuff! Especially referencing Namaan . . .

Look at Luke 4:25
"
. . . I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. 28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
"
Namaan was even baptized!
Yeppers.
Patterns everywhere of how Christ/God will restore believing mankind to Himself as the only elohim above all other elohim to be served.
Luke does a good job of pointing out patterns.
Not surprising since Luke was a scribe of Paul, and Paul does an excellent job of pointing out patterns also.
It's amazing to see the many ways God uses Israel to show mankind of the whole world that He is the only Most High God worth being served instead of the other gods.

Notice this also:

Luke 10:1 KJV​
(1) After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.​
.​
.​
(17) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.​


Some scholars consider this specific number to be a reference corresponding to the 70 nations of mankind divided at Tower of Babel.
I also find it interesting that for the feast of the Day of Atonement 70 bulls were sacrificed.
Some scholars also consider this number to be a reference corresponding to the 70 nations of mankind in that the sacrifice of Christ would not just atone for the believing remnant of Israel, but would be sufficient for the atonement of the believing remnant of the whole world.
 

Tambora

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A distinction without a difference. Satan is the only one called the god of this world, and he isn't a "GOD" at all.
I like the way Paul puts it here --- "rulers of the darkness"

Ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Right, rulers (plural).
 

Tambora

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Good stuff! Especially referencing Namaan . . .

Look at Luke 4:25
"
. . . I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. 28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
I had a thread at another site a while back called "Two Mules Loaded with Dirt" that was about Naaman's story.
Naaman the Gentile that didn't have to join Israel to be a man of God, or be circumcised, or observe the Mosaic law, or keep the Feast days, or read the Torah, or anything else except believe in YHWH only as the Most High God.
When he was healed of leprosy he wanted to pay the prophet Elisha.
But Elisha refused payment. It was a free gift, an unmerited gift (grace) from the LORD.


Namaan was even baptized!
In the Jordan River, no less!
The same river John baptized the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Good stuff! Especially referencing Namaan . . .

Look at Luke 4:25
"
. . . I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. 28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
"
Namaan was even baptized!
And in 2 Kings 5:10 Elisha says to Naaman to WASH / RAHAS in the Jordan 7 times and that his flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shall be clean .

The Hebrew words WASH / RAHAL , stem is Qal and that means to wash off , or wash away , or bath one self and where did anyone , like John baptize 7 times or wash yourself 7 times ?

dan p
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Notice this also:


Luke 10:1 KJV​
(1) After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.​
.​
.​
(17) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.​


Some scholars consider this specific number to be a reference corresponding to the 70 nations of mankind divided at Tower of Babel.
Certainly plausible and interesting.
I also find it interesting that for the feast of the Day of Atonement 70 bulls were sacrificed.
Some scholars also consider this number to be a reference corresponding to the 70 nations of mankind in that the sacrifice of Christ would not just atone for the believing remnant of Israel, but would be sufficient for the atonement of the believing remnant of the whole world.
Numbers 29
And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days:

13 And ye shall offer a burnt offering, a sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; thirteen young bullocks ... 17 And on the second day ye shall offer twelve young bullocks ... 20 And on the third day eleven bullocks ... 23 And on the fourth day ten bullocks ... 26 And on the fifth day nine bullocks ... 29 And on the sixth day eight bullocks ... 32 And on the seventh day seven bullocks ....

13
+12
+11
+10
+9
+8
+7
=70

Interesting that no one agrees when Christ was actually born, but it is beyond dispute and controversy that Jerusalem and the Temple was completely ruined in AD 70. I ran across a Jesuit saying that goes something like "Coincidence is how God remains anonymous." :)
 

Tambora

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Interesting that no one agrees when Christ was actually born,
What I find interesting is that the magi (the wise men from the east) knew a King was born in the land of Judaea and came to honor Him, but no one in Judaea seemed to know or care about His birth when it happened with the exception of a small group of shepherds.

I ran across a Jesuit saying that goes something like "Coincidence is how God remains anonymous." :)
I have heard a scholar or two say that the Hebrew language didn't have a word for "coincidence".
 

Nick M

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Jesus did teach His disciples the then-future 'DBR' (the death, burial and Resurrection of Christ) during His earthly ministry.
Technically, it was hidden from them. For the same reason already given, nobody knew what Isaiah 53 or Psalm 22 meant, so the plan could not be stopped by the rulers of the day.

44 “Let these words sink down into your ears, for the Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand this saying, and it was hidden from them so that they did not perceive it; and they were afraid to ask Him about this saying.

And later Luke testifies again.

31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be [f]accomplished. 32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.”


34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.
 
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