ECT Why believers get lost--

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.


Judas was a believer who had part in the ministry of the twelve, but who refused to become clean through his taking to heart the words which Christ spoke to him.

Joh 13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
Joh 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

So it is today that believers who refuse to be cleansed by the word of God from their former thoughts and ways, will eventually be cut off Christ as Judas became.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


LA
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
There is deception in not believing our will plays a part in salvation, I.E. submission to God.

There is deception in not believing God requires practical, heart change, holiness in us.

There is deception in not believing what God can do in us with our submission to Him.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Believers are only those who believe the saving Gospel, not the various false gospels of works or of false christs.

Those who believe the saving Gospel are now in and of Christ and so cannot be lost.

Those who have sincerely believed falseness can be lost because they were never saved.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Believers are only those who believe the saving Gospel, not the various false gospels of works or of false christs.

True believing is to know and trust a living Person, who is Gods son Jesus Christ.

Believing a bible teaching is not salvation.

Those who believe the saving Gospel are now in and of Christ and so cannot be lost.

There is only one Gospel in the believing of which one may be saved by, but anyone can think they have salvation by believing in it, yet not know Christ at all.

Those who have sincerely believed falseness can be lost because they were never saved.

Saved from what and by whom, and by what means and when.

You use the term saved in such a false and misleading way as if it only requires that God has called you and thereafter nothing, especially obedience.

You only assume that you are a member of an elite group of believers called the Body of Christ, but in fact you are not for the Body of Christ is the Bride of Christ and you strongly deny that you are a member of that, as you deny water baptism which even Christ was required to undergo.

The true Church began at Pentecost and your own confession is that you are not a member of that Church.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.



LA
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.


Judas was a believer who had part in the ministry of the twelve, but who refused to become clean through his taking to heart the words which Christ spoke to him.

Joh 13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
Joh 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

So it is today that believers who refuse to be cleansed by the word of God from their former thoughts and ways, will eventually be cut off Christ as Judas became.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


LA

Foolish person

Paul says no whoremonger or unclean person etc hath any inheritance

Be not partakers with THEM....

He doesn't say no whoremonger or unclean person etc hath any inheritance therefore be not one of them.

You are not only foolish you are lazy.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Foolish person

Paul says no whoremonger or unclean person etc hath any inheritance

Be not partakers with THEM....

He doesn't say no whoremonger or unclean person etc hath any inheritance therefore be not one of them.

You are not only foolish you are lazy.

The verses are saying that if the believer walks with the damned by doing the same things as they and not cease then they also will be damned with them.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

LA
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
There is deception in not believing God requires practical, heart change, holiness in us.

There is deception in not believing what God can do in us with our submission to Him.

You are going to hell. He did not die a torturous death so you could turn over a new leaf.
 

Truster

New member
There is deception in not believing our will plays a part in salvation, I.E. submission to God.

There is deception in not believing God requires practical, heart change, holiness in us.

There is deception in not believing what God can do in us with our submission to Him.

If submission were a necessity for salvation I would not have been saved. I was dragged kicking and screaming out of the darkness I loved into glorious light. In me and the likes of me the scripture is fulfilled.

''I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.'' Amen, amen and amen.
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
You are going to hell. He did not die a torturous death so you could turn over a new leaf.

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself, because you the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgement of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you, O man-- you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself--that you will escape the judgement of God? Or do you presume on the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentence?"

Nick how about we let God judge us and let His mercy lead us to repentence?

He died so that we may live for Him!

"And He died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for Him for theit sake died and was raised." 2 Corinthians 5:15
 

ZacharyB

Active member
True believing is to know and trust a living Person, who is Gods son Jesus Christ.
This is true only if ... one's knowing and trusting Jesus leads one to obeying Him!
And co-operating with the Holy Spirit, whom Father God has given to believers!
Here's the Trinity.
True believing also includes works ... re: faith without works is dead.

So, we have a new trinity to believe in (because it is all scriptural):
knowing-trusting-obeying
co-operating
working
 

ZacharyB

Active member
You (LA) are not only foolish you are lazy.
You are an apostate who has lost her way.
Or, were you EVER in The Way?

False teachers will be judged very severely.

IMO, there are different horizontal levels in Heaven (away from the Throne),
and there are different vertical levels in Hell.
Hence, some will be judged for the H-level,
and some will be judged for the V-level.
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
If submission were a necessity for salvation I would not have been saved. I was dragged kicking and screaming out of the darkness I loved into glorious light. In me and the likes of me the scripture is fulfilled.

''I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.'' Amen, amen and amen.
"But now that you have been set free from sin, and have become slaves to God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end eternal life." Romans 6:22

What moves us to this? His love, His grace, Christ's shed blood, His Spirit. It is by our submitted will none the less, not by force. Shared relational love with Him that is freely given because He deserves it. Love is not love if it is by force.
 
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ZacharyB

Active member
Can they be vomited out of Jesus' mouth?
Perhaps only those who have belonged to Laodicean-type churches.
And those who presently belong.
And those who will belong.
Which is about 90% of people in today's N.A. churches!
Read about 'em in Revelation Chapter 3.

Deep prophecy: someone will ask what N.A. means.
 

God's Truth

New member
"But now that you have been set free from sin, and have become slaves to God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end eternal life." Romans 6:22

What moves us to this? His love, His grace, Christ's shed blood, His Spirit. It is by our submitted will none the less, not by force. Shared relational love with Him that is freely given because He deserves it. Love is not love if it is by force.

Jesus saves people by giving them his Holy Spirit.

Jesus gives his Holy Spirit to those who obey him. See Acts 5:32.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
The verses are saying that if the believer walks with the damned by doing the same things as they and not cease then they also will be damned with them.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

LA

Not "be not ye therefore one of them" the reason you don't understand scripture is because you insult the Author of them.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
You are an apostate who has lost her way.
Or, were you EVER in The Way?

False teachers will be judged very severely.

IMO, there are different horizontal levels in Heaven (away from the Throne),
and there are different vertical levels in Hell.
Hence, some will be judged for the H-level,
and some will be judged for the V-level.

You WILL be judged the more harshly

You go around teaching that Christ is a hard taskmaster gathering where He never sowed and winnowing where He never strawed .

Because you scatter rather than gather, you have turned nasty upon those you are supposed to be serving, it's all THEIR fault, so you turn and beat them.

But Jesus will tell you it is because you are a lazy fellow, too lazy to learn and too rebellious to submit to others better than yourself.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Nick how about we let God judge us and let His mercy lead us to repentence?

Why, don't you love your neighbor?

2 Corinthians 5

11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
 
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