Great post !!!
Why are there monuments of Confederate soldiers
- Thread starter ClimateSanity
- Start date
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
A Southern Woman Shares Her Story of Statues, Lies, and Listening
You want to talk about statues? Let's talk about statues.
This photo is of me at age fourteen posing in front of a Confederate memorial in my own neighborhood where I grew up.
I am a proud Southern woman.
I drink sweet tea like nobody's business, know the difference between a Western and English saddle, and can make a pecan pie from scratch.
Believe me when I say I love my heritage and my culture.
I grew up one block down from the Chickamauga battlefield in Georgia.
I had picnics in that park, went hiking on those trails with my girl scout troop.
Confederate statues are all too familiar to me.
In fourth grade I took a field trip to Stone Mountain to see the faces of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson up close and personal.
This is a very fond memory for me of my childhood.
I remember salt water taffy and blown glass figurines in the park.
I remember riding the Summit Skyride and just looking out for miles and miles.
But you know what I don't remember? Anyone telling me,
"These men carved into this mountain are the men that lost the Civil War.
These are the men who fought to be a separate America and lost.
These are the men that fought to keep slaves."
No one took the time to educate me on the real history of these men.
Instead, I was filled with fun, happy thoughts.
How could these guys be bad people?
I mean, they're riding horses, come on!
Every ten year old thinks someone riding a horse is cool.
Now, there's a chance I just wasn't listening, or I didn't read enough wall plaques because I was an easily distracted kid who didn't care too much for history.
This is entirely possible.
But I guaran-damn-tee no one ever said the word slavery to me while I was there.
Not my parents, not my teachers, not the park employees.
The same goes for the Chickamauga Battlefield, less than half a mile from my front door.
No one ever stopped to say, "this is important history because they fought to keep slaves and lost."
All that time I spent staring at sculptures of these men, I never knew they were fighting on the wrong side of history.
Now you bet I heard phrases like "state rights" and "war of northern aggression". But it was always in passing and vague. What state rights? Aggression about what?
No one ever told me, and I didn't know I was supposed to ask because it was all so normal to me.
That's the thing about these memorials.
Do they offend me? No, not particularly.
Because they've been NORMALIZED my whole life.
This is where it is our job to listen to marginalized people that are offended and hurt by these.
If they say these are bad and we should take them down, they're probably right!
Just because we've been taught our whole lives that they're okay, does not make them okay.
The fact that they don't make me uncomfortable IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM.
These statues aren't there to teach us history.
They're there to rewrite history and feed us false perceptions of the Civil War.
They make us comfortable with a very bad cause.
Do you think these white supremacists were radicalized overnight?
They are a direct product of DECADES of misinformation and misdirection.
Of normalization and an overwhelming acceptance of "how it's always been".
The South can no longer fall behind the ideology of how it's always been.
Times are changing, and we should too.
I love being a Southerner. I love my heritage.
But I can be proud of where I come from without embracing a history that never really was.
I can acknowledge my ancestors' mistakes and appreciate the past without glorifying them on pedestals.
We don't need a single Confederate statue.
Not a single one.
Not until they're all accompanied with real teachings and historical lessons, which can happen in a museum.
Not until we have our picnics beside Robert E Lee and describe him to our children as he REALLY was.
Please share this so all centrists and sympathizers can know that yes, you can be a proud Southerner and NOT defend these terrible things.
It's not our fault that we've been misled our whole lives.
But we're adults now, and we no longer have an excuse for not educating ourselves.
I am a proud citizen of the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America.
You want to talk about statues? Let's talk about statues.
This photo is of me at age fourteen posing in front of a Confederate memorial in my own neighborhood where I grew up.
I am a proud Southern woman.
I drink sweet tea like nobody's business, know the difference between a Western and English saddle, and can make a pecan pie from scratch.
Believe me when I say I love my heritage and my culture.
I grew up one block down from the Chickamauga battlefield in Georgia.
I had picnics in that park, went hiking on those trails with my girl scout troop.
Confederate statues are all too familiar to me.
In fourth grade I took a field trip to Stone Mountain to see the faces of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson up close and personal.
This is a very fond memory for me of my childhood.
I remember salt water taffy and blown glass figurines in the park.
I remember riding the Summit Skyride and just looking out for miles and miles.
But you know what I don't remember? Anyone telling me,
"These men carved into this mountain are the men that lost the Civil War.
These are the men who fought to be a separate America and lost.
These are the men that fought to keep slaves."
No one took the time to educate me on the real history of these men.
Instead, I was filled with fun, happy thoughts.
How could these guys be bad people?
I mean, they're riding horses, come on!
Every ten year old thinks someone riding a horse is cool.
Now, there's a chance I just wasn't listening, or I didn't read enough wall plaques because I was an easily distracted kid who didn't care too much for history.
This is entirely possible.
But I guaran-damn-tee no one ever said the word slavery to me while I was there.
Not my parents, not my teachers, not the park employees.
The same goes for the Chickamauga Battlefield, less than half a mile from my front door.
No one ever stopped to say, "this is important history because they fought to keep slaves and lost."
All that time I spent staring at sculptures of these men, I never knew they were fighting on the wrong side of history.
Now you bet I heard phrases like "state rights" and "war of northern aggression". But it was always in passing and vague. What state rights? Aggression about what?
No one ever told me, and I didn't know I was supposed to ask because it was all so normal to me.
That's the thing about these memorials.
Do they offend me? No, not particularly.
Because they've been NORMALIZED my whole life.
This is where it is our job to listen to marginalized people that are offended and hurt by these.
If they say these are bad and we should take them down, they're probably right!
Just because we've been taught our whole lives that they're okay, does not make them okay.
The fact that they don't make me uncomfortable IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM.
These statues aren't there to teach us history.
They're there to rewrite history and feed us false perceptions of the Civil War.
They make us comfortable with a very bad cause.
Do you think these white supremacists were radicalized overnight?
They are a direct product of DECADES of misinformation and misdirection.
Of normalization and an overwhelming acceptance of "how it's always been".
The South can no longer fall behind the ideology of how it's always been.
Times are changing, and we should too.
I love being a Southerner. I love my heritage.
But I can be proud of where I come from without embracing a history that never really was.
I can acknowledge my ancestors' mistakes and appreciate the past without glorifying them on pedestals.
We don't need a single Confederate statue.
Not a single one.
Not until they're all accompanied with real teachings and historical lessons, which can happen in a museum.
Not until we have our picnics beside Robert E Lee and describe him to our children as he REALLY was.
Please share this so all centrists and sympathizers can know that yes, you can be a proud Southerner and NOT defend these terrible things.
It's not our fault that we've been misled our whole lives.
But we're adults now, and we no longer have an excuse for not educating ourselves.
I am a proud citizen of the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
well, that's different
Climate Sanity writes:
There's that. But even more so, the statues of Confederate soldiers at almost every courthouse in Texas, are there to commemorate the brave men who fought and died for that which they thought was right. Despicable as the alt-right is today, let us not forget that most of those men who fought for the South did so to protect their families and communities.
A misguided motive, but not an evil one.
Lincoln had it right when he told Grant:
"I'd let them up easy."
The surrender was a highly emotional affair for the participants, many of whom had been fighting for four years. Soldiers on both sides cheered and cried – often at the same time – upon hearing the news.
The formal ceremony and collection of weapons took place on April 12 under the supervision of Brig. Gen. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. As ranks of Confederate soldiers came forward to hand over their weapons and flags, Chamberlain ordered his men to salute their defeated adversaries as a gesture of respect. Other witnesses also reported that interactions between Yankees and Rebels were almost entirely kind and friendly.
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/10-facts-appomattox-court-house
We should make a distinction between people who lived in worse times than we, and the modern sewer scum who appropriated symbols like the stars and bars for their own degenerate purposes. My inclination would be to leave the statue up and put a plaque next to if if the person depicted had a less than honorable character. Any evil he did could be put in historic context. That seems to me to be a just solution.
There's that. But even more so, the statues of Confederate soldiers at almost every courthouse in Texas, are there to commemorate the brave men who fought and died for that which they thought was right. Despicable as the alt-right is today, let us not forget that most of those men who fought for the South did so to protect their families and communities.
A misguided motive, but not an evil one.
Lincoln had it right when he told Grant:
"I'd let them up easy."
The surrender was a highly emotional affair for the participants, many of whom had been fighting for four years. Soldiers on both sides cheered and cried – often at the same time – upon hearing the news.
The formal ceremony and collection of weapons took place on April 12 under the supervision of Brig. Gen. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. As ranks of Confederate soldiers came forward to hand over their weapons and flags, Chamberlain ordered his men to salute their defeated adversaries as a gesture of respect. Other witnesses also reported that interactions between Yankees and Rebels were almost entirely kind and friendly.
https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/10-facts-appomattox-court-house
We should make a distinction between people who lived in worse times than we, and the modern sewer scum who appropriated symbols like the stars and bars for their own degenerate purposes. My inclination would be to leave the statue up and put a plaque next to if if the person depicted had a less than honorable character. Any evil he did could be put in historic context. That seems to me to be a just solution.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
so you'd be on board with renaming the capitol (and the state) Washington**
**who owned slaves
In the Korean War we were fighting a form of Marxism, derived from the Bolshevism of the Russian Revolution. We also claimed to be be fighting Communism in the Viet-Nam war. American forces were defeated and driven out of Viet-Nam. The Korean War was not clearly won by the U.S.. It ended in a kind of Mexican Stand-off at the P'anmunjom. peace talks. But - we were successful in preventing South Korea from being overrun and taken over by the North Korean Communists and the Red Chinese. South Korea is still not Communist. Japan is also not communist.
The Left now appears to be made up of many people of the Millennials. the generaton now coming of age, though there are older people in the Leftist movement. And - although the Leftist Millennials are fixated on the slogans of Political Correctness or Identity Politics, they do not know and apparently don't want to know where this ideology comes from. It comes from the Frankfurt School.
See: https://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/
"Political Correctness is cultural Marxism. It is Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. It is an effort that goes back not to the 1960s and the hippies and the peace movement, but back to World War I. If we compare the basic tenets of Political Correctness with classical Marxism the parallels are very obvious."
"In 1923 in Germany, a think-tank is established that takes on the role of translating Marxism from economic into cultural terms, that creates Political Correctness as we know it today, and essentially it has created the basis for it by the end of the 1930s. This comes about because the very wealthy young son of a millionaire German trader by the name of Felix Weil has become a Marxist and has lots of money to spend."
"In 1933 the Nazis came to power in Germany, and not surprisingly they shut down the Institute for Social Research. And its members fled. They fled to New York City, and the Institute was reestablished there in 1933 with help from Columbia University. "
"Some of them go to work for the government, including Herbert Marcuse, who became a key figure in the OSS (the predecessor to the CIA), and some, including Horkheimer and Adorno, move to Hollywood."
"The terror against anyone who dissents from Political Correctness on campus is part of it. It’s exactly what we have seen happen in Russia, in Germany, in Italy, in China, and now it’s coming here.........it’s here, it’s growing and it will eventually destroy, as it seeks to destroy, everything that we have ever defined as our freedom and our culture."
"The theory was simple: criticize every pillar of Western culture—family, democracy, common law, freedom of speech, and others. The hope was that these pillars would crumble under the pressure."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america
"Next was a book Theodor Adorno co-authored, The Authoritarian Personality. It redefined traditional American views on gender roles and sexual mores as “prejudice.” Adorno compared them to the traditions that led to the rise of fascism in Europe.
Is it just a coincidence that the go-to slur for the politically correct today is “fascist”?"
Marx as a young man was part of the Young Hegelian Group in Berlin. But Marx invented an anti-Christian form of the Hegelian dilectic. So the Frankfurt School in the U.S. by the early fifties began using the dialectic of fascism, that is, they made fascists the bad guys and themselves the good guys. Whoever was not a Marxist was therefore a fascist, though the Frankfurt School avoided the use of the term Marxist.
After making use of the dialectic focused on fascism as the evil, Political Correctness moved on to racism and sexism and later homophobia, and phobias regarding Islamic terrorists.
Here are quotes from the site linked above: "The Frankfurt School’s work has had a deep impact on American culture. It has recast the homogenous America of the 1950s into today’s divided, animosity-filled nation."
"In turn, this has contributed to the undeniable breakdown of the family unit, as well as identity politics, radical feminism, and racial polarization in America."
So, in 1950-53 both World War II Veterans and a gounger age group of Americans are fighting the Bolshevik form of Marxism in Korea. Then, after the Frankfurt School of German Marxists helped inspire the Counterculture in the sixties and seventies, after Second-wave Feminism, after the first and second Bill and Hillery administrations, two of Obama and Third Wave Feminism, we have a Marxist Left movement which is dividing the country.
Is not this 2016-2017 Marxist Left movement acting in a dialectic "game" against the patriots, populists, Christians, much of the Lower Middle Class, the prolifers, the defenders of the Bill of Rights, and those who want to have more jobs and more small businesses to be free of monoply capitalism?
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and
hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it
costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for
he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst
those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor
appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he
wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies
deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he
infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is
less to fear.” Marcus Tullius Cicero
The Left now appears to be made up of many people of the Millennials. the generaton now coming of age, though there are older people in the Leftist movement. And - although the Leftist Millennials are fixated on the slogans of Political Correctness or Identity Politics, they do not know and apparently don't want to know where this ideology comes from. It comes from the Frankfurt School.
See: https://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/
"Political Correctness is cultural Marxism. It is Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. It is an effort that goes back not to the 1960s and the hippies and the peace movement, but back to World War I. If we compare the basic tenets of Political Correctness with classical Marxism the parallels are very obvious."
"In 1923 in Germany, a think-tank is established that takes on the role of translating Marxism from economic into cultural terms, that creates Political Correctness as we know it today, and essentially it has created the basis for it by the end of the 1930s. This comes about because the very wealthy young son of a millionaire German trader by the name of Felix Weil has become a Marxist and has lots of money to spend."
"In 1933 the Nazis came to power in Germany, and not surprisingly they shut down the Institute for Social Research. And its members fled. They fled to New York City, and the Institute was reestablished there in 1933 with help from Columbia University. "
"Some of them go to work for the government, including Herbert Marcuse, who became a key figure in the OSS (the predecessor to the CIA), and some, including Horkheimer and Adorno, move to Hollywood."
"The terror against anyone who dissents from Political Correctness on campus is part of it. It’s exactly what we have seen happen in Russia, in Germany, in Italy, in China, and now it’s coming here.........it’s here, it’s growing and it will eventually destroy, as it seeks to destroy, everything that we have ever defined as our freedom and our culture."
"The theory was simple: criticize every pillar of Western culture—family, democracy, common law, freedom of speech, and others. The hope was that these pillars would crumble under the pressure."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america
"Next was a book Theodor Adorno co-authored, The Authoritarian Personality. It redefined traditional American views on gender roles and sexual mores as “prejudice.” Adorno compared them to the traditions that led to the rise of fascism in Europe.
Is it just a coincidence that the go-to slur for the politically correct today is “fascist”?"
Marx as a young man was part of the Young Hegelian Group in Berlin. But Marx invented an anti-Christian form of the Hegelian dilectic. So the Frankfurt School in the U.S. by the early fifties began using the dialectic of fascism, that is, they made fascists the bad guys and themselves the good guys. Whoever was not a Marxist was therefore a fascist, though the Frankfurt School avoided the use of the term Marxist.
After making use of the dialectic focused on fascism as the evil, Political Correctness moved on to racism and sexism and later homophobia, and phobias regarding Islamic terrorists.
Here are quotes from the site linked above: "The Frankfurt School’s work has had a deep impact on American culture. It has recast the homogenous America of the 1950s into today’s divided, animosity-filled nation."
"In turn, this has contributed to the undeniable breakdown of the family unit, as well as identity politics, radical feminism, and racial polarization in America."
So, in 1950-53 both World War II Veterans and a gounger age group of Americans are fighting the Bolshevik form of Marxism in Korea. Then, after the Frankfurt School of German Marxists helped inspire the Counterculture in the sixties and seventies, after Second-wave Feminism, after the first and second Bill and Hillery administrations, two of Obama and Third Wave Feminism, we have a Marxist Left movement which is dividing the country.
Is not this 2016-2017 Marxist Left movement acting in a dialectic "game" against the patriots, populists, Christians, much of the Lower Middle Class, the prolifers, the defenders of the Bill of Rights, and those who want to have more jobs and more small businesses to be free of monoply capitalism?
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and
hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it
costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for
he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst
those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor
appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he
wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies
deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he
infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is
less to fear.” Marcus Tullius Cicero
I read an article about the statues at the University of Texas that were removed and it said that they were put up during the Jim Crow era. That timing doesn't suggest that the intent was to give dignity back to people who went wrong. It seems to be more about celebrating people who were fighting on the side of slavery. A reminder to black people.
But for sure, that doesn't mean that all monuments were done for that purpose, or in that era. I'd be interested to know the history of the statues that are coming up in the news.
I remember seeing statues of Caesar Chavez and Martin Luther King. And yes, the cavalry statue group near the LBJ Library, I think.
Don't remember confederates, though. There very well might be. I just don't remember seeing any.
Don't remember confederates, though. There very well might be. I just don't remember seeing any.
Robert E Lee is just another left wing liberal in the service of corporate globalists who had slaves (just not Chinese) and they tried to destroy this country. The states should tear down their statutes. And the civilians that did it should be prosecuted for vandalism.
University of Texas takes down four Confederate statues overnight
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ate-statues-overnight/?utm_term=.a16d128d92a4
I found your error, and it's right there are the outset.
The Civil War was many things, but it wasn't a fall from grace for America. For several states, yes, but for America it was the painful beginning of the hard work of making a more perfect union.
Lincoln's grace and the grace of a nation willing to try to reconcile rather than dominate.
Funny how you only seem to see the good in old racist slavers and never see it in black people who stand up to injustice.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/8/15/16153220/trump-confederate-statues
View attachment 25913
I think the history of these monuments adds some perspective to the debate. Many/most of these were not constructed to innocently preserve history of the Southern states or the Confederate army. They were constructed out of racial hatred.
View attachment 25913
I think the history of these monuments adds some perspective to the debate. Many/most of these were not constructed to innocently preserve history of the Southern states or the Confederate army. They were constructed out of racial hatred.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
OP: Why are there monuments of confederate soldiers?
Because people thought we ought to remember them.
Because people thought we ought to remember them.
A great many of them are in memory of those who died in a battle near the location or served in the war, many of which also are black people.
Why should they be removed?
should we start ripping down tombstones of those we dont like or whose ideas we dont like?