Why are there monuments of Confederate soldiers

patrick jane

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The Left as used on TOL is not clearly defined. The Left seems to be understood as being an ido9logy which is not Marxist, but some other vague set of ideas. The Left has been called "liberalism." In fact Michael Save wrote a book he called "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder."

But the social scientists - a psychiatrist, a couple of historians, a sociologist a psychologist or two - Herbert Hendin, Christopher Lasch, Daniel Yankelovitch and Michael W. Doyle - who studied the Counterculture of the Sixties and Seventies were aware that there was a Marxist influence upon that movement. Most of them were also aware that the Counterculture, especially in the sixties, came as much out of the Beat Poets, the Art Bohemians and the LSD drug movement as from the New Left, which was Marxist.

Keven MacDonald, a psychologist, has been more specific in his study of the influence of Marxism upon the Counterculture of the sixties and seventies. He has pointed out that the Counterculture grew out of the Frankfurt School's Transformational Marxism. The Political Correstness movement of the Marxist Left which is so dominant in the politics of the Democratic Party and used over and over by the contemporary younger Leftists comes out of Transformational Marxism and more specifically out of the Frankfurt School's interest in anti-semitism, and the causes of the authoritarian personality - Christianity and the family - racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamic-phobia and etc. Identity Politics is another name for Political Correctness.

The possible alliance between the Islamic jihadists and the present day Marxist Left is politically incorrect to mention and even more politically incorrect is talking about a possible connection between high level Democratic operatives and Pedophilia. Any talk of Pedophilia and the Marxist Left is "Made Up" and "Fake News."

Marxism is fundamentrally anti-Christian. Marx turned Hegel, who was not ant-Christian "on his head<' and made Marxism very anti-Christian. Marxism is a form of the spirit of anti-Christ of I John 4: 3.

"Once the earthly family is discovered to be the secret of the
heavenly family, the former must be destroyed (annihilated), in theory
and in practice." Karl Marx, Feuerbach Thesis #4

"In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)

But the Left people of 2016-2017 know nothing or very little of the Beat Poets and the Art Bohemians. Almost none of the present day Leftists who are under 40 would know who Lawrence Ferlinghetti is. He was born in 1919 and is still alive.

Our Mass Media had been so taken over by the Marxist Left that even wikipedia had an article on the Leftist bias of that Mass Media. The public approval rating of the Mass Media had dropped drastically in the last few years.

See: http://www.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

"September 14, 2016.
Americans' Trust in Mass Media Sinks to New Low..... Americans' trust and confidence in the mass media "to report the news fully, accurately and fairly" has dropped to its lowest level in Gallup polling history, with 32% saying they have a great deal or fair amount of trust in the media. This is down eight percentage points from last year."

We are still in the era of "Fake News."
Great post !!!
 

Tambora

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annabenedetti

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A Southern Woman Shares Her Story of Statues, Lies, and Listening

You want to talk about statues? Let's talk about statues.

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This photo is of me at age fourteen posing in front of a Confederate memorial in my own neighborhood where I grew up.

I am a proud Southern woman.

I drink sweet tea like nobody's business, know the difference between a Western and English saddle, and can make a pecan pie from scratch.
Believe me when I say I love my heritage and my culture.

I grew up one block down from the Chickamauga battlefield in Georgia.
I had picnics in that park, went hiking on those trails with my girl scout troop.
Confederate statues are all too familiar to me.
In fourth grade I took a field trip to Stone Mountain to see the faces of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson up close and personal.

This is a very fond memory for me of my childhood.
I remember salt water taffy and blown glass figurines in the park.
I remember riding the Summit Skyride and just looking out for miles and miles.
But you know what I don't remember? Anyone telling me,
"These men carved into this mountain are the men that lost the Civil War.
These are the men who fought to be a separate America and lost.
These are the men that fought to keep slaves."

No one took the time to educate me on the real history of these men.
Instead, I was filled with fun, happy thoughts.
How could these guys be bad people?
I mean, they're riding horses, come on!
Every ten year old thinks someone riding a horse is cool.

Now, there's a chance I just wasn't listening, or I didn't read enough wall plaques because I was an easily distracted kid who didn't care too much for history.
This is entirely possible.

But I guaran-damn-tee no one ever said the word slavery to me while I was there.
Not my parents, not my teachers, not the park employees.
The same goes for the Chickamauga Battlefield, less than half a mile from my front door.
No one ever stopped to say, "this is important history because they fought to keep slaves and lost."

All that time I spent staring at sculptures of these men, I never knew they were fighting on the wrong side of history.

Now you bet I heard phrases like "state rights" and "war of northern aggression". But it was always in passing and vague. What state rights? Aggression about what?
No one ever told me, and I didn't know I was supposed to ask because it was all so normal to me.

That's the thing about these memorials.
Do they offend me? No, not particularly.
Because they've been NORMALIZED my whole life.


This is where it is our job to listen to marginalized people that are offended and hurt by these.
If they say these are bad and we should take them down, they're probably right!

Just because we've been taught our whole lives that they're okay, does not make them okay.
The fact that they don't make me uncomfortable IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM.
These statues aren't there to teach us history.
They're there to rewrite history and feed us false perceptions of the Civil War.
They make us comfortable with a very bad cause.
Do you think these white supremacists were radicalized overnight?
They are a direct product of DECADES of misinformation and misdirection.
Of normalization and an overwhelming acceptance of "how it's always been".

The South can no longer fall behind the ideology of how it's always been.

Times are changing, and we should too.
I love being a Southerner. I love my heritage.
But I can be proud of where I come from without embracing a history that never really was.
I can acknowledge my ancestors' mistakes and appreciate the past without glorifying them on pedestals.
We don't need a single Confederate statue.
Not a single one.
Not until they're all accompanied with real teachings and historical lessons, which can happen in a museum.
Not until we have our picnics beside Robert E Lee and describe him to our children as he REALLY was.

Please share this so all centrists and sympathizers can know that yes, you can be a proud Southerner and NOT defend these terrible things.

It's not our fault that we've been misled our whole lives.

But we're adults now, and we no longer have an excuse for not educating ourselves.
I am a proud citizen of the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America.​
 

The Barbarian

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Climate Sanity writes:
The monuments are there basically to give back dignity to good people who went wrong. Evil ideas can become acceptable in a society and we have no place as a modern enlightened society to judge them according to our full moral understanding today.

There's that. But even more so, the statues of Confederate soldiers at almost every courthouse in Texas, are there to commemorate the brave men who fought and died for that which they thought was right. Despicable as the alt-right is today, let us not forget that most of those men who fought for the South did so to protect their families and communities.

A misguided motive, but not an evil one.

Lincoln had it right when he told Grant:
"I'd let them up easy."

The surrender was a highly emotional affair for the participants, many of whom had been fighting for four years. Soldiers on both sides cheered and cried – often at the same time – upon hearing the news.

The formal ceremony and collection of weapons took place on April 12 under the supervision of Brig. Gen. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. As ranks of Confederate soldiers came forward to hand over their weapons and flags, Chamberlain ordered his men to salute their defeated adversaries as a gesture of respect. Other witnesses also reported that interactions between Yankees and Rebels were almost entirely kind and friendly.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/10-facts-appomattox-court-house

We should make a distinction between people who lived in worse times than we, and the modern sewer scum who appropriated symbols like the stars and bars for their own degenerate purposes. My inclination would be to leave the statue up and put a plaque next to if if the person depicted had a less than honorable character. Any evil he did could be put in historic context. That seems to me to be a just solution.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
My inclination would be to leave the statue up and put a plaque next to if if the person depicted had a less than honorable character. Any evil he did could be put in historic context. That seems to me to be a just solution.


so you'd be on board with renaming the capitol (and the state) Washington**

**who owned slaves
 

northwye

New member
In the Korean War we were fighting a form of Marxism, derived from the Bolshevism of the Russian Revolution. We also claimed to be be fighting Communism in the Viet-Nam war. American forces were defeated and driven out of Viet-Nam. The Korean War was not clearly won by the U.S.. It ended in a kind of Mexican Stand-off at the P'anmunjom. peace talks. But - we were successful in preventing South Korea from being overrun and taken over by the North Korean Communists and the Red Chinese. South Korea is still not Communist. Japan is also not communist.

The Left now appears to be made up of many people of the Millennials. the generaton now coming of age, though there are older people in the Leftist movement. And - although the Leftist Millennials are fixated on the slogans of Political Correctness or Identity Politics, they do not know and apparently don't want to know where this ideology comes from. It comes from the Frankfurt School.

See: https://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/

"Political Correctness is cultural Marxism. It is Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. It is an effort that goes back not to the 1960s and the hippies and the peace movement, but back to World War I. If we compare the basic tenets of Political Correctness with classical Marxism the parallels are very obvious."

"In 1923 in Germany, a think-tank is established that takes on the role of translating Marxism from economic into cultural terms, that creates Political Correctness as we know it today, and essentially it has created the basis for it by the end of the 1930s. This comes about because the very wealthy young son of a millionaire German trader by the name of Felix Weil has become a Marxist and has lots of money to spend."

"In 1933 the Nazis came to power in Germany, and not surprisingly they shut down the Institute for Social Research. And its members fled. They fled to New York City, and the Institute was reestablished there in 1933 with help from Columbia University. "

"Some of them go to work for the government, including Herbert Marcuse, who became a key figure in the OSS (the predecessor to the CIA), and some, including Horkheimer and Adorno, move to Hollywood."

"The terror against anyone who dissents from Political Correctness on campus is part of it. It’s exactly what we have seen happen in Russia, in Germany, in Italy, in China, and now it’s coming here.........it’s here, it’s growing and it will eventually destroy, as it seeks to destroy, everything that we have ever defined as our freedom and our culture."

"The theory was simple: criticize every pillar of Western culture—family, democracy, common law, freedom of speech, and others. The hope was that these pillars would crumble under the pressure."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america

"Next was a book Theodor Adorno co-authored, The Authoritarian Personality. It redefined traditional American views on gender roles and sexual mores as “prejudice.” Adorno compared them to the traditions that led to the rise of fascism in Europe.

Is it just a coincidence that the go-to slur for the politically correct today is “fascist”?"

Marx as a young man was part of the Young Hegelian Group in Berlin. But Marx invented an anti-Christian form of the Hegelian dilectic. So the Frankfurt School in the U.S. by the early fifties began using the dialectic of fascism, that is, they made fascists the bad guys and themselves the good guys. Whoever was not a Marxist was therefore a fascist, though the Frankfurt School avoided the use of the term Marxist.

After making use of the dialectic focused on fascism as the evil, Political Correctness moved on to racism and sexism and later homophobia, and phobias regarding Islamic terrorists.

Here are quotes from the site linked above: "The Frankfurt School’s work has had a deep impact on American culture. It has recast the homogenous America of the 1950s into today’s divided, animosity-filled nation."

"In turn, this has contributed to the undeniable breakdown of the family unit, as well as identity politics, radical feminism, and racial polarization in America."

So, in 1950-53 both World War II Veterans and a gounger age group of Americans are fighting the Bolshevik form of Marxism in Korea. Then, after the Frankfurt School of German Marxists helped inspire the Counterculture in the sixties and seventies, after Second-wave Feminism, after the first and second Bill and Hillery administrations, two of Obama and Third Wave Feminism, we have a Marxist Left movement which is dividing the country.

Is not this 2016-2017 Marxist Left movement acting in a dialectic "game" against the patriots, populists, Christians, much of the Lower Middle Class, the prolifers, the defenders of the Bill of Rights, and those who want to have more jobs and more small businesses to be free of monoply capitalism?

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and
hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it
costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for
he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst
those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor
appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he
wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies
deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he
infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is
less to fear.” Marcus Tullius Cicero
 

kmoney

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http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/08/why_are_there_monuments_of_confederate_soldiers.html

In the Civil War, America suffered a fall from grace. But grace was used to turn enmity into comity.

This is why the Civil War monuments existed, in part, perhaps in the largest part.* A shattered nation needed to come back together.* Secession was treason.* Treason was disgrace; worse, treason was committed to protect the evil of slavery.* Men died to stop it.* Men died to save it.* We know who won.* But with battlefields stained with blood, and the shops, streets and homes filled with maimed bodies, broken futures, and fractured souls, how do you mend two warring sides?*
The President saw the need to overcome the conceit that a person can own another in servitude; he had to destroy the idea that slavery was acceptable; and once doing that, remove the disgrace from the person.* Let them restore their dignity, sense of place, recognizing those parts of themselves that were honorable and good.* They were made to see that this thing about slavery they got horribly wrong.* He believed that to be at peace and to become neighbors again, to be one nation again, they must forgive; they must get past it; they must see each representative of the former enemy as a whole being, fully vested with all the rights and privileges of citizenship.* There are no spoils for the victors because there is no one vanquished.* We are brothers again.

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The monuments are there basically to give back dignity to good people who went wrong. Evil ideas can become acceptable in a society and we have no place as a modern enlightened society to judge them according to our full moral understanding today.

I read an article about the statues at the University of Texas that were removed and it said that they were put up during the Jim Crow era. That timing doesn't suggest that the intent was to give dignity back to people who went wrong. It seems to be more about celebrating people who were fighting on the side of slavery. A reminder to black people.

But for sure, that doesn't mean that all monuments were done for that purpose, or in that era. I'd be interested to know the history of the statues that are coming up in the news.
 

northwye

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I don't remember any Confederate monuments on the University of Texas campus. I remember several life size statutes of the 8th Texas Cavalry on the grounds of the Texas State capital.
 

The Barbarian

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I remember seeing statues of Caesar Chavez and Martin Luther King. And yes, the cavalry statue group near the LBJ Library, I think.

Don't remember confederates, though. There very well might be. I just don't remember seeing any.
 

Nick M

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The monuments are there basically to give back dignity to good people who went wrong.

Robert E Lee is just another left wing liberal in the service of corporate globalists who had slaves (just not Chinese) and they tried to destroy this country. The states should tear down their statutes. And the civilians that did it should be prosecuted for vandalism.
 

rexlunae

New member
In the Civil War, America suffered a fall from grace.

I found your error, and it's right there are the outset.

The Civil War was many things, but it wasn't a fall from grace for America. For several states, yes, but for America it was the painful beginning of the hard work of making a more perfect union.

But grace was used to turn enmity into comity.

Lincoln's grace and the grace of a nation willing to try to reconcile rather than dominate.

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The monuments are there basically to give back dignity to good people who went wrong. Evil ideas can become acceptable in a society and we have no place as a modern enlightened society to judge them according to our full moral understanding today.

Funny how you only seem to see the good in old racist slavers and never see it in black people who stand up to injustice.
 

kmoney

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https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/8/15/16153220/trump-confederate-statues

Trump is correct that the protest was nominally about protecting a statue. But the notion that that somehow means the protest wasn’t about racism is flat wrong.

As the SPLC report explains:

Two distinct periods saw a significant rise in the dedication of monuments and other symbols. The first began around 1900, amid the period in which states were enacting Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise the newly freed African Americans and re-segregate society. This spike lasted well into the 1920s, a period that saw a dramatic resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan, which had been born in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War. The second spike began in the early 1950s and lasted through the 1960s, as the civil rights movement led to a backlash among segregationists.
It’s not an accident that these statues were mostly built when the South was busy establishing Jim Crow and defending it from the civil rights movement. This is because the purpose of Confederate monuments, as Princeton historian Kevin Kruse argues on Twitter, is not to serve as pure historical markers — but to glorify the Confederate cause. They assert that a war fought on behalf of slavery was a just one, that the people who fought it were morally upright, and that white supremacy should be cherished as part of Southern “heritage.”

That’s why Trump’s equivalency between Confederate statues and one of George Washington misses the mark. Washington was a slave owner, yes, but the meaning of a Washington statue is not necessarily pro-slavery or pro-white supremacy — whereas that’s exactly the point of the vast majority of Confederate memorials in the United States.

Once you understand this point, it becomes obvious why neo-Nazis and white supremacists would rally to the defense of Confederate memorials. The only outstanding question is why the president of the United States would do the same.

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I think the history of these monuments adds some perspective to the debate. Many/most of these were not constructed to innocently preserve history of the Southern states or the Confederate army. They were constructed out of racial hatred.
 
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