We seem to be in agreement, except for the Hebrews being fooled. The Law as from God to the Hebrews for a divine purpose. They suffered when they did not follow the guidelines and prospered when they didn't. The Law was for His purpose for the world, to give a Saviour for all. I am not bound by it but they were. I am bound by a stronger Law, the Law of Love. and gratitude
Whom Jesus called dead in “let the dead bury the dead”(Lk9-60)?
- Thread starter stephengoswami
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They were fooled by Moses who did not tell them that the law was for temporary use and not eternally applicable. Moses did not use great plain-ness of speech . . . re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verses: 12 to 15, KJV N.T..
Indeed love is the final frontier.
There are no shades of loves or different kinds of love. God is love and urgings of love which arises and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within our individual hearts or spirits for those specific people, things and circumstance in our environment reveals to us God's individualized will for us. We are to obey these urgings of love unconditionally even if we have to transgress the Ten Commandments.
Of course many people who do not know Love or who have not experienced love's urgings mistake all kinds of things to be love.
God or Love is discerned only as urgings of love which arises and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within our individual hearts or spirits for those specific people, things and circumstance in our environment. One must be spiritually aware in order to be aware of these urgings of love.
The dead would know actually know Love or love's urgings. However they would not know that they do not know Love or love's urgings. They will hold an intellctual idea of love and erroneously mistake many circumstances to be love and love's urgings.
Love's urgings is an intuition and only the spiritually aware are aware of their intuitions which are the faculties of one's spirit or inward man or heart. 'The dead' means spiritually dead or unaware of one's own spirit or heart. By definition the dead are not aware of their spirit or heart or inward man. They cannot be aware of God's direct and individual guidance which are urgings of love which arises and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within our individual hearts or spirits for those specific people, things and circumstance in our environment.
The dead are also called the unawares. They cannot be under grace of God. Being in Christ is about being led by the Spirit of Jesus as dicerned within one's own heart or spirit. The mind of the Spirit of Jesus as dicerned within our own heart is always centered on urgings of love which arises and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within our individual hearts or spirits for those specific people, things and circumstance in our environment.
What the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for us to pray for say and do as dicerned within our own heart or spirit does not uphold the Ten Commandments or anyother ideal or law of society, morality and/or religosity.
Being in Christ is not for the unaware. They are dead within. They must be under the law (i.e. the Ten Commandments) for their righteousness.
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moses didn't know. He was being obedient to God's will. There was no deception.
No, God's love will not cause us to disobey law.
love is a higher standard than legalism.
we don't steal because we love God
I wouldn't use intuitions but God's leading. He leads us to love correctly. as God does.
yes the spirituslly dead do not respond to God's leading for various reasons.
well stated, gurucam.
No, God's love will not cause us to disobey law.
love is a higher standard than legalism.
we don't steal because we love God
I wouldn't use intuitions but God's leading. He leads us to love correctly. as God does.
yes the spirituslly dead do not respond to God's leading for various reasons.
well stated, gurucam.
Fact is Moses did not use great plain-ness of speech . . . re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verses: 12 to 15, KJV N.T..
Now (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit of Jesus 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17 .
God sent the Spirit of Jesus sent into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted childrten of God (re. Galatains: 4 verses: 5 to 7)
And where the Spirit is there is liberty . . . 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17
. . . for the law is done away with for those in communion with the Spirit of Jesus and are led into their works by this Spirit 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 7
Only the dead or the unaware will discern wisdom in the Ten Commandments. More precisely only righteous seeking unaware people will discern wisdom in the Ten Commandments and esteem these laws.
One who discern wisdom in the law must be unaware (i.e. not spiritually aware). If they are righteous seeking they will esteem the law and seek to uphold them.
If you admit that what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for, say and do as discerned within your heart will not require you to transgress the Ten Commandments. I will concluded that you are not spiritually aware or in awareness of urgings of love within your own heart.
for those who knew Moses, then the veil is certainly remove unto Grace... but to those who do NOT have a knowledge of Moses... what do you suggest? to first learn of Moses to then discard the Law unto Grace.?
I do not have to have a knowlwdge of the Law in order to receive Grace.
I am spiritually alive because I am in Christ. you seem to be claim to be spiritual by upholding the Law of Moses
Where the Spirit is there is Liberty is certainly true but it is freedom from SIN , free to choose God's way,not freedom from the Law of Moses. (although freedom from sin includes the freedom from condemnatuion that comes through the Law)
I can be saved without ever knowing of Moses.
I do not have to have a knowlwdge of the Law in order to receive Grace.
I am spiritually alive because I am in Christ. you seem to be claim to be spiritual by upholding the Law of Moses
Where the Spirit is there is Liberty is certainly true but it is freedom from SIN , free to choose God's way,not freedom from the Law of Moses. (although freedom from sin includes the freedom from condemnatuion that comes through the Law)
I can be saved without ever knowing of Moses.
Grace is in no way connected to Moses laws (i.e. the Ten Commandments) . Moses simply gave the law as a schoolmaster. Moses did not bring Grace and/or Truth. Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ. Grace does not come through the physical Jesus. Grace comes through the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God.
This is the path to grace:
One must obtain the first fruit of the Holy Spirit. That is one must become aware of one's own heart or spirit. This is described as being 'born again'. The unaware is the dead. The dead describes one who is not aware of his own heart or spirit. Such a person is aware of only his natural man or physical body. He is not aware of his inward man or spirit body. Such a person must awaken to his own spirit or heart (i.e. awaken to his own inward man) then he will become given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. This is the first fruit of the Holy Spirit.
However awakening to one's own heart (i.e. being born again) is simply the first fruit of the Holy Spirit and this does not make one a Christain. That is this does not make one "in Christ'. This simply enables one to search one's own heart to discern the Spirit of Jesus within one's own heart. This is a small first step.
We are told that those with the first fruit of the Spirt have not make it yet. They still wait in groaning for the adoption (i.e. the adoption as children of God)
To be in Christ is to be like Jesus as he was when he was a man on earth. This means that one must become a child of God.
God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God.
Therefore after receiving the first fruit of the Spirit one must go to the next step. One must seek to become an adopted child of God in order to differ in no way from Jesus as he was on earth and so become 'in Christ'. Those in Crist differs in no way from Jesus, as he was on earth as a man. 'To differ in no way from Jesus' is be become a child of God like Jesus. This is to be 'in Christ. This is to be a Christian. Only this is to be a Christian.
To give those humans a change to achive this goal, God sent Jesus a second time to earth among those under the law. God sent Jesus this second time, in His Spirit. This was the second comming of Jesus. This occured some 2000 odd years ago. After Jesus died on the cross and rose to heaven God sent Jesus back among those under the laws a second time. This time in His Spirit. God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God (Galatians: 4 verses: 5 to 7).
The adoption as a child of God comes when one search one's own heart and disceren precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do as discerned within one's individual heart or spirit. Then when one is led into all of one's works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus (which God sent into our hearts) has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, one come onto Christ, i.e. one is 'in Christ'. One become an adopted child of God. One differs in no way from Jesus for this is how Jesus was led on earth.
What the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do as discerned within one's own heart is always in line with the will of God. When one is led into one's works unconditionally (i.e. even if one has to transgress the Ten Commandments), by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do as discerned wthin one's own heart, in real time, one does the real time will of God and one is under grace of God. This is the only way to be under grace of God.
This is how to come onto Christ. This is described as obedience onto righteousness. This is righteousness of God without any law. This is righteousness of God with God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the Ten Commandments and not get sin.
Nothing that deny this revelation, (even if it is the nices and sweetest sounding idea) can be or is Truth. Only this is the path to Truth, salvation, deliverance and Christianity.
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First, this entire existance is an act of Mercy and/or Grace. Grace began before the Cross. Grace began in Gen 1:3 notice the Spirit moves and remember your quote "where the Spirit is there is Liberty" This is the first of Grace.
We are not adopted into a position of children , we are children of God who fell are redeemed and fufill the legal reposition requirements ( salvation)to be reconciled to God.
are you saying the Spirit of Christ is suffecient to save to those under the Law?
if so then why would Jesus have to die?
I am more than adopted, Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God.
you are applying adoption to the relationship and ignoring" Abba" Father
other than this I agree with everything else you wrote
We are not adopted into a position of children , we are children of God who fell are redeemed and fufill the legal reposition requirements ( salvation)to be reconciled to God.
are you saying the Spirit of Christ is suffecient to save to those under the Law?
if so then why would Jesus have to die?
I am more than adopted, Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God.
you are applying adoption to the relationship and ignoring" Abba" Father
other than this I agree with everything else you wrote
Yes! We were children of God as Adam was, but adopted Devil as father being lured by him. Now those who realise their mistake again return to God like Prodigal Son.
Well said.
Do you apply the same love to your parents and God which you apply to your spouse during intimacy?
Jesus' death on the cross was not for everyone. Jesus' death on the cross was for the Jew and it was simply ritualistic.
Under Moses teaching (which was for the Jews) nothing was forgiven without a lfe blood sacrifice. Therefore for those who esteemed Moses ideals, Jesus was made a live blood sacrifice for their past sin up to that time under the traditions of Moses-ism. That was strictly for those under the tradition of Moses.
However Jesus death on the cross did not take care of any furture sin that they might accrue.
In order to be delivered from furture sin the Jew and everyone else had to become 'born again' and discern the Spirit of Jesus within their own hearts or spirits and be led into all their works, in real time, all the time, by preciesly what this Spirit has in mind for them to pray for, say and do as discerned within their own hearts or spirits in real time, all the time, unconditionally, . . . . even if they have to transgress the Ten Commandments.
Those who continue to esteem the law and did not pick up God's offer of the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into their hearts or spirit so that they might become adopted children of God have benifited nothing from Jesus and His coming. Jesus (and the New Testament) became of no valve or no good to them. For them it is as if Jesus never came. They remained Old people. They remained children of the flesh, also called 'the dead'.
Did you pick up the offer of Jesus' Spirit which God sent into our human hearts or spirit or are under the teachings and spell of traditional Christianity were many are called but the very great majority (i.e. all but a few) err becaue they do not know or get Truth and they do not make it?
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now you are so far off
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
His death was for everyone. It covered all sin. but is only applied to those who accept the offering of pardon from judgement.
We are new in Christ whether a knowledge of the Law ever existed in our hearts.
The spirituall dead may or may not have a knowledge of the Law ,They don't care about the Law or anything spiritual. In any culture, not just those from the Judeo Christian who had axcess to the Law of Moses
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
His death was for everyone. It covered all sin. but is only applied to those who accept the offering of pardon from judgement.
We are new in Christ whether a knowledge of the Law ever existed in our hearts.
The spirituall dead may or may not have a knowledge of the Law ,They don't care about the Law or anything spiritual. In any culture, not just those from the Judeo Christian who had axcess to the Law of Moses
The message is Jesus is the propitiation. This is on going. It was not a done deal on the cross. The message is not Jesus was the propitiation.
We cannot know Jesus in the flesh at this time. However we all have the opportunity to know Jesus in His Spirit, intuitively, through our own heart or spirit.
Indeed so. We are kept in good standing with God but not by Jesus' death on the cross but though His living Spirit which God sent into our hearts or spirits.
That is, by unconditional obedience to precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for us to pray for, say and do as discern within our own hearts or spirits, we accrue (get) no sin even when we transgress the Ten Commandments.
This is how Adam lived originally.
This is how it was for humans in the begining.
This is how one lives in the light. This was the way in the begining, that is even before Moses delivered the law.
In the begining described a time before the fall of mankind. This describes the ways of the original Adam. Moses laws were introduced, long after the begining, to fallen people who were in darkness. They included the Jews. Moses law was the righteous way in the darkness for the dead.
Being led by the Spirit of Jesus is righteous way in the light among the spiritually aware who are in the light. This is how it was in the begining. The opportunity is now made clear for the return to the way it was in the begining.
Bottom line, Jesus is the propitiation for the whole world but not through his death on the cross. The physical Jesus is of no consequence at this time.
Jesus is, currentlly and eternally, the propitiation for the whole world through His living Spirit which God sent into the hearts or spirit of all humans.
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GURU!! totally backwards of the Truth
We can live in the Spirit , we can be led by the Spirit by Because of His FINISHED work on the CROSS. The physical(and spiritual) death on the cross is the ONLY Reason we can have life in Christ. It is the payment for my sins and my reconciliation.
How can you mix so much truth which such grievious basic errors? Is this type of teaching common in your area or is this a solo belief?
We can live in the Spirit , we can be led by the Spirit by Because of His FINISHED work on the CROSS. The physical(and spiritual) death on the cross is the ONLY Reason we can have life in Christ. It is the payment for my sins and my reconciliation.
How can you mix so much truth which such grievious basic errors? Is this type of teaching common in your area or is this a solo belief?
Now (i.e. since some 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17). The lord is no longer the physical Jesus.
God sent Jesus a second time among those under the law. Jesus cannot be seperated from His Spirit. Jesus is the Truth within His Spirit. God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under law so that they might become adopted children of God (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 to 7).
This is the only path to becoming a child of God. It has nothing to do with the physical Jesus.
Did you pick up this offer of Jesus' Spirit, from God or are you still erroneously and misguidely waiting for the return of Jesus in a fleah and bone body?
If you have picked up the offer of Jesus Spirit from God then you are among the few who have Truth and therefore do not err and are chosen first.
If you are still waiting on the return of Jesus in a physical body you have ignored or missed His second coming. You hae been misguided by false prophets who came in Jesus' name. As Jesus prophesized, you are among the very great majority (all but a few) of those called to Chritianity who have been misled and therefore err and do not make it.
I am not waiting on a physical return ofJesus, and i see more clearly your point.
Where did God send Jesus a second time to those under the Law?
It does have to do with Jesus a a physical man.
I must believe that Jesus came in the flesh and died for me to be saved, do you not agree?
are you saying when one becomes a believer one accepts Jesus spirit?
Where did God send Jesus a second time to those under the Law?
It does have to do with Jesus a a physical man.
I must believe that Jesus came in the flesh and died for me to be saved, do you not agree?
are you saying when one becomes a believer one accepts Jesus spirit?
Ιλάσκομαι and atonement are the two most abused words used by christian translators. The connotation of hebrew atonement is covering of sin and correcting wrongs, which Yeshua the messiah could not have done for anyone alive to today. The Passover sacrifice was not a sin offering either, because it was not used for the pardoning of sins. We are accountable for the real wrongs which we do, not the phony ones.
No you do not have to belive that Jesus came in the flesh and died for you in order for you to be saved. That has nothing to do with your salvation and deliverance. That believe in all pervading in traditional Christianity. Howeve it is an erronous belief. In fact holding that belief is a stumbling block to your spiritually actualization and your salvation and deliverance.
This is why the very great majority of those called to traditional Christianity err and do not make it. They hold the belief that they have to belive that Jesus came in the flesh and died for them in orderfor them to be saved. They are gravely misledled. They do not know Truth.
The path to salvation and deliverance is only through the Spirit of Jesus.
You have to initiate some kind of effort to become 'born again' (which happen under grace of God). To be 'born again' is to become aware of your own heart or spirit. Then once you are aware of (i.e. awakened to) your own heart or spirit, you have to search your own heart or spirit and discern precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for, say and do from within your heart. This identifies your individual God given mission in the body of Christ.
Then you have to be led into all you works by this, even if you have to transgress all ideals and laws of society, morality and religosity (including the Ten Commandments). Then you become saved and delivered. This is the only path.
Repeating or confessing slogans without first seeking and capturing the kingdom of God within your own heart counts for absolutely nothing.
Jesus is the Truth.
Jesus told his disciples that it is expedient that He physically go away so that the Spirit of Truth will come and bring all Truth.
Since Jesus is the Truth, the Spirit of Truth is the Spirit of Jesus.
Then after Jesus died and rose to heaven, God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might get all Truth and be led into their works by all Truth and so become adopted children of God. Children of God are the saved and delivered.
Then we are told that those with the first fruit of the Spirt have not yet made it. They still groan for the adoption as children of God. Then they are told to search their hearts or spirits to discern precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind fo them to pray for say and do and be led into their works by this and they become children of God.
Then, some 2000 odd years ago, Jesus declared through Paul: Now, the Lord is that Spirit.
The above confirm the path to seeking and capturing the kingdom of God within your own heart or spirit. You must do this first before you can actually know that Jesus died for you as so confess this is the correct manner. Any other form of confession is simply parroting and is of no use.
Believing that Jesus died for you means to know intutively through your own individual heart or spirit, from the Spirit of Jesus, that Jesus died for you. You cannot simply chose to believe. The cofession that Jesus died for you must actually be a confirmation of something that you know (intuitively) from the Spirit of Jesus through your own heart. You cannot simply be physically told that or physically read that and belive it and repeat it and get salvation and deliverance. This is the very grave error which dominates what passes for Christianity everywhere. Is is any wonder why many are called and few chosen?
You cannot make this confession first. You must seek ye first and capture the kingdom of God withn your own heart then this knowing and all other things will be added.
However Jesus knew that only a few will get this mesage. It will inevitably remain hidden from the undeserving.
These are Jesus' prophesies:
Many are called but few chosen.
People err (and are not chosen) because they do not know Truth.
Many false prophets will come in His name and misguide many.
In actually confessing that Jesus died for you does not aid or enables your salvation or deliverance.
This confession is meant to confirm that you have first seek the kingdom of God within your own heart and you have capture it. The first thing that you are required to do is to seek the kingdom of God within your own heart and capture it. Only then can you make confessions and/or hold authentic Christian beliefs.
If you have not gone the path of seeking and achieving direct intuititve communion with the Spirit of Jesus within your own heart. And if you are not led into your works by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for you to pray for say and do, even if you have to transgress all ideals and laws of society, morality and religosity (including the Ten Commandments) then: your confession that Jesus died for you counts for absolutely nothing.
Traditional Christianty is being purified now in these last day. It is my mission, under grace of God, in the body of Christ, to purify traditional Christianity in these last. This will allow those who come to Christinity in these last day to actually get the correct path to Truth. They will be the last to Christianty who will be chosen first.
You have this opportuinty to embrace what I have confirmed here in these last days and so be among the last who are (chosen) first . . . . you are called in these last days. Will you detect the path to Truth and Truth? Will you be led by Truth? Will you be chosen? Or will you remain lost in the err which dominates traditional Christianity?
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but you seem imply that Jesus blood does pardon sin for all., right?
one has to believe what Jesus did as a human in order to accept the reality of salvation today.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
His resurrection is proof to us that He is God, He is Man, He was sinless, His sacrifice was suffecient for our salvation.
You are correct that just believing Christ died for sins is not suffecient. One has to accept that they are a sinner first repent of theor sins and are in need of a saviour to accept that He died for us was necessary for our salvation.
I see you intentions are good, but your doctrine is not presented here correctly. I think you see many people who proclaim themselves to be Christians but do not have the" direct intuititve communion" with Christ are not real Christians. Since we receive the one-on-one relationship as sons of God, when we accept Jesus as our savior, these are probably not saved.
Visit or call John Gosset or Cyril Gumbs or David Long there in Trinidad for a much deeper discussion that here. Our different usus of English also hinder our exchange of ideas on this subject.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
His resurrection is proof to us that He is God, He is Man, He was sinless, His sacrifice was suffecient for our salvation.
You are correct that just believing Christ died for sins is not suffecient. One has to accept that they are a sinner first repent of theor sins and are in need of a saviour to accept that He died for us was necessary for our salvation.
I see you intentions are good, but your doctrine is not presented here correctly. I think you see many people who proclaim themselves to be Christians but do not have the" direct intuititve communion" with Christ are not real Christians. Since we receive the one-on-one relationship as sons of God, when we accept Jesus as our savior, these are probably not saved.
Visit or call John Gosset or Cyril Gumbs or David Long there in Trinidad for a much deeper discussion that here. Our different usus of English also hinder our exchange of ideas on this subject.