Who can count to forty two?

daqq

Well-known member
So then, no doubt, the man Yeshua is born of a woman and is the Netser Yishay:

Fourteen generations from Abraham to David:

1) Abraham
2) Yitschak
3) Yaakob
4) Yhudah
5) Pherez
6) Hezron
7) Ram
8) Amminadab
9) Nahshon
10) Salmon
11) Boaz
12) Obed
13) Yishay
14) David

Fourteen generations from Solomon to Jechoniah:

15) Sholomoh
16) Rehoboam
17) Abiyah
18) Asa
19) Yehoshaphat
20) Yhoram
21) Uzziah
22) Yotham
23) Ahaz
24) Hezekiah
25) Manassheh
26) Amon
27) Yosiah
28) Yechoniah

Fourteen generations from Shealtiel to Yeshua the Messiah:

29) Shealtiel
30) Zerubbabel
31) Abiud
32) Eliakim
33) Azor
34) Tzadok
35) Achim
36) Eliud
37) Eleazar
38) Matthan
39) Yaakob
40) Yoseph the andraMariam
41) Yeshua son of Yoseph - Netser Yishay (Jesse) - Isaiah 11:1
42) Yeshua HaMeshiach - Tsemach Branch - Zec 3:8 - Zec 6:12

However Messiah Yeshua is not born of a woman and that one is he whose name is Tsemach-Branch and Anatole-Rising Light, (also rendered "Dayspring" in the Luke 1:78 KJV). That is the Testimony of the man Yeshua, for testimony is spirit, and the words that Yeshua speaks are Spirit and they are Life. That Word is the Seeker and the Judge, the Memra-Logos-Word, the Son of Elohim, and the Son of man who descended from the heavens in bodily form as a dove and abode-remained with the man Yeshua from the time when he was immersed. And because he is called the Son of man he is clearly not born of a woman: for of men having been born of women, in the days of both Yeshua and Yochanan Eliyahu the Immerser, there had arisen none greater than Yochanan; but he that was at that time the least in the kingdom of the heavens was greater than Yochanan, (that is, the Son of man, who was made to be a little lower than the messengers because he is the Word that the messengers speak). :)
 

RBBI

New member
Great posts. As to your opening question, I can. WE are one with that 42 generation, the offspring of the Lamb standing on the mount, a generation (who shall declare/show openly HIS generation?) that spans all generations because it is SPIRIT, because the Seed is Spirit. When He comes He comes with myriads of His saints. Peace
 
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oatmeal

Well-known member
Hello everyone. Is there anyone here that can show a count that comes up with forty two generations in the Matthew genealogy since that is the number which the author gives for his own writing? Or is there another logical and acceptable explanation for why the numbers do not add up according to modern theology experts? For the purposes of this thread topic I simply post the KJV. However the translation is really not all that important for this simple opening point, (which, yes, I know it is a well known problem) so please feel free to quote your own favorite translation if you so desire. I will start my own count at the logical place in the beginning with Abraham but first I quote verse seventeen which clearly states that the author gives fourteen plus fourteen plus fourteen generations for a total of forty two beginning with Abraham:

Matthew 1:17 KJV
17. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.


14 + 14 + 14 = 42 Generations:

Matthew 1:1-17 KJV
1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2. Abraham [1] begat Isaac; and Isaac [2] begat Jacob; and Jacob [3] begat Judas and his brethren;
3. And Judas [4] begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares [5] begat Esrom; and Esrom [6] begat Aram;
4. And Aram [7] begat Aminadab; and Aminadab [8] begat Naasson; and Naasson [9] begat Salmon;
5. And Salmon [10] begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz [11] begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed [12] begat Jesse;
6. And Jesse [13] begat David the king; and David [14] the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7. And Solomon [15] begat Roboam; and Roboam [16] begat Abia; and Abia [17] begat Asa;
8. And Asa [18] begat Josaphat; and Josaphat [19] begat Joram; and Joram [20] begat Ozias;
9. And Ozias [21] begat Joatham; and Joatham [22] begat Achaz; and Achaz [23] begat Ezekias;
10. And Ezekias [24] begat Manasses; and Manasses [25] begat Amon; and Amon [26] begat Josias;
11. And Josias [27] begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12. And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias [28] begat Salathiel; and Salathiel [29] begat Zorobabel;
13. And Zorobabel [30] begat Abiud; and Abiud [31] begat Eliakim; and Eliakim [32] begat Azor;
14. And Azor [33] begat Sadoc; and Sadoc [34] begat Achim; and Achim [35] begat Eliud;
15. And Eliud [36] begat Eleazar; and Eleazar [37] begat Matthan; and Matthan [38] begat Jacob;
16. And Jacob [39] begat Joseph [40] the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, [41] who is called Christ.


:sheep:

Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille shows clearly that the word translated "husband" in husband of Mary should have been translated "father", not "husband". That the father of Mary would have the same name as her husband is not unusual. Joseph is not an uncommon name. Joseph of Genesis was an incredibly great believer and disciple with a wonderful legacy.

For a full explanation of the research, see "The Word's Way" or "Jesus Christ Our Passover" by Wierwille.

Either of those books can be purchased new from The Way International or used copies can be found at Amazon and probably other websites.

Both books were decades in the making and well worth the time and money to learn from.

If providing purchasing info on this website is not kosher, my apologies, but since the subject is handled in depth in both publications and long posts are not welcome here, it seems if anyone wants to learn more they should do it from a solid source, from the horse's mouth, so to speak, not from my retyping of pages from copyrighted sources.

Having the privilege of so many ready answers to these kind of questions is a true God send.

The genealogy in Matthew is Jesus Christ's royal lineage, his legal right to the throne of David, which culminates in Mary being in the royal bloodline. Since Joseph, Mary's husband, is not the biological father of Jesus, this royal genealogy is meaningless if it culminates in Joseph, Mary's husband, instead of Joseph, Mary's father.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille shows clearly that the word translated "husband" in husband of Mary should have been translated "father", not "husband". That the father of Mary would have the same name as her husband is not unusual. Joseph is not an uncommon name. Joseph of Genesis was an incredibly great believer and disciple with a wonderful legacy.

For a full explanation of the research, see "The Word's Way" or "Jesus Christ Our Passover" by Wierwille.

Either of those books can be purchased new from The Way International or used copies can be found at Amazon and probably other websites.

Both books were decades in the making and well worth the time and money to learn from.

If providing purchasing info on this website is not kosher, my apologies, but since the subject is handled in depth in both publications and long posts are not welcome here, it seems if anyone wants to learn more they should do it from a solid source, from the horse's mouth, so to speak, not from my retyping of pages from copyrighted sources.

Having the privilege of so many ready answers to these kind of questions is a true God send.

The genealogy in Matthew is Jesus Christ's royal lineage, his legal right to the throne of David, which culminates in Mary being in the royal bloodline. Since Joseph, Mary's husband, is not the biological father of Jesus, this royal genealogy is meaningless if it culminates in Joseph, Mary's husband, instead of Joseph, Mary's father.

Not to worry, I am not the kind that will report you for replying with "too long" of a post. However the argument you present I have read several times in several places, (and debated it more than once) although I have not read it straight from the author you mention. The argument presented is more of an argument for a literal physical virgin birth but still does not address the problem of the forty-two generation count addressed in this thread. Even if you replace "Yosef the man (or husband) of Mariam" with "Yosef the father of Mariam" you still come up short counting forty-two generations within the text, (unless you see that Messiah is the Word which the man Yeshua is legomenos-laying-forth-speaking; for his Testimony is Spirit). But as for the argument itself it is nothing more than a desperate attempt to salvage a flesh minded paradigm that puts its faith in the literal understanding of a physical virgin birth, (which Paul hints at being "old wives tales"). The main problem raised in this thread is that the forty-two generation count, as explicitly stated to be the case by the author of Matthew himself, cannot be reconciled from a physical mindset. But as for "aner", (andra) being rendered as "father", (as according to the author you referred to says it should be rendered) there is nowhere that I know of where this is done in the Greek text. We have a word for "father" and it is "pater" in all places including Matthew:

Matthew 2:22 KJV
22. But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father [GSN#3962 pater] Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:

Strong's Ref. #3962
Romanized pater
Pronounced pat-ayr'
a primary word; a "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote):
KJV--father, parent.

The man Yeshua is the son of Yosef: to ignore this natural fact completely dissolves the entire purpose of the Matthew genealogy because the entire point is that the man Yeshua is of the lineage of the royal line of David, through Yosef, and the genealogy is man-to-man, that is, father-to-son. The holy seed is Spirit and that is why all through the holy seed line "men beget men" just as it is in the Matthew genealogy. While everyone knows that the wife of Adam was Eve still yet that is not how it reads in the first genealogy of the holy seed line from Genesis 5:3. If you forsake this precept at the very end of the genealogy, which precept builds precept upon precept, and you make Yosef to instead be "the father" of Mariam, then you have effectually subverted the entire process by pulling a fast one at the literal end of an age-old tradition going all the way back to Genesis 5:3. The author you mention has merely pulled the old switcheroo at the very end to suit his own means and ends. It is the tactic of the unstable and unlearned who are not willing to follow precept upon precept and actually adhere to and believe what is written. It is blatant error to have "fathers begetting sons" throughout the holy seed line, all the way back from Adam, and then at the very end of the genealogy have a woman suddenly inserted into the final position breaking the most critical rule laid out from the beginning of the genealogy and flowing through all other portions of it. Abraham begat Yitschak, Yitschak begat Yakob, Yakob begat Yhudah, and what the author you mention is suggesting is that at the very end of the same genealogy, out of nowhere, wham-bam-kapow: the father of Mariam gets inserted at the very end, breaking the entire rule of example which came before going all the way back to Adam. And this he apparently believes despite the fact that the word for father, (pater) is not found anywhere in the text, and despite the fact that the word for man or husband, (aner) is nowhere else rendered as "father" by anyone, anyplace, anytime. The failure in understanding is that the virgin birth concerns supernal and allegorical things. Who and what does Eve represent in the beginning? Who does Sarah the wife of Abraham represent according to Paul? Who does Rachel the wife of Yakob and mother of Yosef and Benyamin represent? Mariam is the final allegorical typology of Yerushalem of Above, who is the mother-covenant of us all, (Galatians 4:22-31).

Jeremiah 31:15-22
15. Thus says YHWH; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
16. Thus says YHWH; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, says YHWH; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.
17. And there is hope in thine end, says YHWH, that thy children shall come again to their own border.
18. I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art YHWH my Elohim.
19. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
20. Is Ephraim My dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore My bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, says YHWH.
21. Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Yisrael, turn again to these thy cities.
22. How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for YHWH cuts-down-creates a chadashah-renewed-new thing in the erets: nqebah-female shall encompass gaber-man!

The final line of the above passage is foundational to the renewed covenant understanding: nqabah-female shall encompass gaber-andri-man, (Greek aner-andra is essentially the equivalent of Hebrew geber-gaber). The woman-wife-bride in this understanding is therefore likened to a bride having been prepared for the adornment of her geber-andri-man, (Rev 21:2). It is the New Covenant which is New Yerushalem that descends out of the heavens from the Father, (Mat 3:16-17, Luke 3:22, John 3:27-29, 2 Cor 5:1-4, Rev 3:12, Rev 21:2). :)
 

OCTOBER23

New member
Forty-two is the third primary pseudoperfect number and the pronic number

and an abundant number of its prime factorization 2 · 3 · 7

which makes it the second sphenic number and also the second of the form (2 · 3 · r).

As with all sphenic numbers of this form, the aliquot sum is abundant by 12.

42 is also the second sphenic number

to be bracketed by twin primes; 30 is also a pronic number

and also rests between two primes. 42 has a 14-member

aliquot sequence 42, 54, 66, 78, 90, 144, 259, 45, 33, 15, 9, 4, 3, 1, 0

and is itself part of the aliquot sequence commencing with the first sphenic number 30.

Further, 42 is the 10th member of the 3-aliquot tree.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, see the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy for the Answer to the Ultimate question

which is 42 turned upon itself which is 24 which is the year of the return of JESUS to the Earth.

Sept.24, 2024.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Great posts. As to your opening question, I can. WE are one with that 42 generation, the offspring of the Lamb standing on the mount, a generation (who shall declare/show openly HIS generation?) that spans all generations because it is SPIRIT, because the Seed is Spirit. When He comes He comes with myriads of His saints. Peace

Truly said, for the 144000 which Yochanan immersed are the firstfruits of the All Yisrael of YHWH, that is, the birth of the "man-child" nation in a day, (Isaiah 66:7-8). We read a secret concerning this in the Luke account of the immersion of Yeshua:

Luke 3:21-22 Transliterated Unaccented
21. Egeneto de en to baptisthenai hapanta ton laon kai Iesou baptisthentos kai proseuchomenou aneochthenai ton ouranon:
22. kai katabenai to Pneuma to Hagion somatiko eidei hos peristeran ep auton: kai fonen exouranou genesthai, "Su ei ho Huios mou ho agapetos, en soi eudokesa!"

Luke 3:21-22
21. Moreover it came to pass in the whole of the people [hapas-hapanta: absolutely all, every single one] being immersed that Yeshua also immersed; and praying, the heavens were opened:
22. And the Spirit the Hagion [Holy One? as in Acts 3:14 KJV?] in somatiko-bodily form like a dove descended upon him: and a voice out of heaven came to be, "You are My son, the loved-beloved, ["David" = loved-loving, Re: Eze 34:23-24, Eze 37:24-25] in you I am well pleased!"
 

RBBI

New member
Amen....If we die with Him (water baptism/type of being comfortable to His death), then we shall also be raised with Him (baptism of Spirit/type of being baptized into the life of the Spirit). No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down His life for his friend. The Head with His many membered body pattern was shown that day, along with the qualification for being a part of it. Peace
 

keypurr

Well-known member
The Son of man cannot be born of a woman otherwise it is the most oxymoronic statement ever contrived: for who would say that a man born of a woman is the Son of man? In addition this is according to the Testimony of Yeshua himself who clearly and emphatically states that of those having been born of women there had arisen none greater than Yochanan:

Matthew 11:7-11
7. And as they departed, Yeshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning Yochanan, What went you out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But what went you out for to behold? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in houses of kings.
9. But what went you out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. [Exodus 23:20 Septuagint]
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.


This statement necessarily includes the man Yeshua himself and therefore the Son of man is not born of a woman; otherwise Yochanan would have been the greater. The Son of man is the Testimony Word of the man Yeshua which he himself says is Spirit and Life:

John 6:62-63
62. And what if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.


:sheep:

AMEN
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Amen....If we die with Him (water baptism/type of being comfortable to His death), then we shall also be raised with Him (baptism of Spirit/type of being baptized into the life of the Spirit). No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down His life for his friend. The Head with His many membered body pattern was shown that day, along with the qualification for being a part of it. Peace

Good post friend
 
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