Do you believe the Ishmaelites are Gentiles, yes or no, GT?
All I'm asking for is a yes or a no. I will give you my reasoning for MY position afterwards.
WHICH CHURCH WAS HEBREWS WRITTEN TO?
- Thread starter DougE
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Do you believe the Ishmaelites are Gentiles, yes or no, GT?
All I'm asking for is a yes or a no. I will give you my reasoning for MY position afterwards.
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A Jew is one related to Abraham---through Isaac and Jacob, AND one who obeyed and came into the covenant by circumcision, and one who obeyed the old law.
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YOU SAID THEY WERE GENTILES. You prove it. You brought Ishmael into it as a straw man.
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You are not speaking the truth. I said Jews are those blood related to Abraham AND OBEY THE LAW.
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You are amazingly dense.... A GENTILE is a NON-JEW.
Ishmael is a BLOOD RELATIVE of Abraham and he is a NON-JEW. In other words, Ishmael is a BLOOD RELATIVE of Abraham that is a GENTILE (by definition).
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You wrote that. Change it that's not what you believe because it's WRONG!
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WHO IS DENSE? GOD SAYS through ABRAHAM, ISAAC, and Jacob.
THOSE ARE THE BLOOD RELATED AND THEY OBEYED.
Now prove with SCRIPTURE and quotes from me saying any differently.
Give the scripture that says ABRAHAM WAS a GENTILE.
And I'll give the scripture that says he was a HEBREW.
Give the scriptures that say Ishmael was a Gentile.
Correct. And now I'm asking you what you think of my statement. Do you think my statement is correct?
I will, AFTER you answer my question.
I'll even make it multiple choice for you, GT
Are Ishmaelites Gentiles, ie, non-Jews?
A) Yes, Ishmaelites are Gentiles
B) No, Ishmaelites are Jews
C) I don't know
D) I don't want to be shown that I'm wrong so blablablabla! I can't hear you and you need to prove your position with scripture!
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Straw man nonsense.
I said a JEW IS A BLOOD RELATIVE to Abraham AND ONE WHO OBEYS THE LAW.
You are.
So what is Ishmael, chopped liver?
Do you affirm or deny the fact that Ishmael is Abram's oldest son?
The thread is still here for all to read, GT.
Who made that claim?
By your own position he's a Gentile.
He's blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and he was circumcised according to the covenant, but he was not part of the promise God made to Abraham in Genesis 17.
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You are not telling the truth.
I said a Jews is one BLOOD related to Abraham AND one who is circumcised and obeys the law.
So then you would agree that even though Ishmael was a blood relative to Abraham (his oldest son), because of the fact that Ishmael did not obey the Law makes him a non-Jew.
A non-Jew is, according to the definition you posted in Post #139, a Gentile.
No?
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Give the scripture then!
Give the scriptures about GENTILES being blood related to Abraham.
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Ishmael is what his mother is and his father was a Hebrew.
If that makes him a Gentile, then show it with scripture, and show I SAID ISHMAEL WAS A JEW.
You said I said Ishmael was a Jew. Prove it that I spoke about Ishmael as a Jew or a Gentile.
You are the one who brought up Ishmael.
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Anyone who can see, they can see what I posted.
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Anyone who can see can see that I said a Jew is one blood related to Abraham and obeyed the law.
A Gentile is one NOT blood related to Abraham and does NOT obey the old law.
For instance, a Samaritan is a blood related to Abraham but did not obey God.
A Gentile is one NOT blood related to Abraham and does NOT obey the old law.
For instance, a Samaritan is a blood related to Abraham but did not obey God.
Again, Ishmael is blood related and did not obey God's laws.
That would make him a Gentile by definition.
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John 4 [h=3]Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman[/h]
4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.
7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])
10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”
16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”
17 “I have no husband,” she replied.
Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”
19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
John 8:48
The Jews answered Him, "Are we not right to say that You are a Samaritan and You have a demon?"
4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.
7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])
10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”
16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”
17 “I have no husband,” she replied.
Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”
19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
John 8:48
The Jews answered Him, "Are we not right to say that You are a Samaritan and You have a demon?"