Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?

[Derf]

Once a Christian dies he goes to be with the Lord in heaven. Then when the Lord Jesus descends the Christian will be with Him. And then they will be raised in new bodies just like the Lord Jesus' body.

Then the living saints who are caught up to meet Him in the air will also put on new glorious bodies.

Then you don't see anywhere that dead believers are raised from the earth to meet Jesus? Like here:
[1Th 4:16 NKJV] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[1Th 4:17 NKJV] Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[john w]

Let me get this straight, great one. When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil their hearts starting beating and began to supply blood to their bodies?

Did their bodies change in any other way when that ate of that tree?

There is no doubt whatsoever, we see, it is clear, it is obvious, that you are attacking the messenger, assassinating me, and misquoting me, one of the giants of mid Acts dispensationalism, and misquoting others, ignoring what sir Paul says in Romans-Philemon, and then are running and hiding to your Acts 2 "the Lord Jesus Christ had flesh and blood in heaven before he became a man" laughable, ridiculous, silly theory, and your laughable, silly ridiculous evaporation theory, that says he lost his "flesh and bones" spiritual body,on the way to the third heaven, as it was evaporated, when he was hit by an asteroid. BRILLIANT!

The Lord Jesus was in heaven as Man before He came down to earth and was born of Mary.

And we see that you have no answer, as to, if the LORD God was gracious, in not allowing them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, after the fall, as that would mean that they would live forever in a fallen state, why would they need to eat of the tree, to live forever, if they had no sin in them when born? Why would they die?

 

[God's Truth]

The spirit is not a conscious life, that is the soul.

No, the spirit is the life.

 

[God's Truth]

You seem to be confusing the soul with the spirit.
The spirit is not alive, the spirit makes the body live.

Huh? The spirit is not alive, but it make the body live? lol

 

[genuineoriginal]

So, if John was "in the spirit" and Paul was, too, then is it possible that we could be "in the spirit" in heaven when we are asleep/dead?

Some have suggested that Paul's OOB experience was when he was left for dead in Lystra. If that's the case, do you think it gives some evidence for a spiritual awareness in heaven when the body is dead?

There are many credible reports of people having out-of-body experiences, typically when they become clinically dead for a short period of time.
Is it the soul of a person that has not completely died off that has these experiences or is there a separate "spirit" that does not rely on the life of the body that has these experiences?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Huh? The spirit is not alive, but it make the body live? lol

Yep.
The spirit, when added to a body, creates a living soul according to scripture.

 

[God's Truth]

Yep.
The spirit, when added to a body, creates a living soul according to scripture.

The scripture says the spirit makes the body alive.

 

[Derf]

There are many credible reports of people having out-of-body experiences, typically when they become clinically dead for a short period of time.
Is it the soul of a person that has not completely died off that has these experiences or is there a separate "spirit" that does not rely on the life of the body that has these experiences?

I admit of a great deal of ignorance in this topic. The passages about resurrection seem not to recognize any other kind of existence than with a physical body of some type. And if there is some kind of hope that does not need a resurrection of the body, it isn't a primary focus of any of the books of the bible, though it seems like it should be if that is a preferred state.

What's funny is that Paul called his audience "fools" for not understanding that the body must die to get the final body from God--like they should have understood already what he was telling them.

Are we foolish for not understanding this topic?

 

[Derf]

Yep.
The spirit, when added to a body, creates a living soul according to scripture.

Almost like the spirit is the life energy needed to animate the body, but it isn't the person without the spirit.

 

[glorydaz]

I admit of a great deal of ignorance in this topic. The passages about resurrection seem not to recognize any other kind of existence than with a physical body of some type. And if there is some kind of hope that does not need a resurrection of the body, it isn't a primary focus of any of the books of the bible, though it seems like it should be if that is a preferred state.

What's funny is that Paul called his audience "fools" for not understanding that the body must die to get the final body from God--like they should have understood already what he was telling them.

Are we foolish for not understanding this topic?

1 Cor. 15:36-38 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.​

People were closer to the earth in those days. They actually took seeds from a dead plant and put them in the ground....instead of going to the grocery store like we do.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Almost like the spirit is the life energy needed to animate the body, but it isn't the person without the spirit.

That is how I understand it.

 

[Derf]

That is how I understand it.

So that life energy returns to God when we die, and I suppose returns to us forever when He resurrects us.

I'm not sure that completely satisfies all of the scriptures that talk of "spirit", but still thinking it through.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Then you don't see anywhere that dead believers are raised from the earth to meet Jesus? Like here:
[1Th 4:16 NKJV] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[1Th 4:17 NKJV] Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

They will be raised up in new bodies first. The Greek word translated "rise" does not carry a meaning which you are trying to place on it but it does speak of being raised from the dead.

In the second verse you quoted the living saints will be caught up to meet the saints who had already died physically and are already in the clouds and will have already been raised in new bodies.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So that life energy returns to God when we die, and I suppose returns to us forever when He resurrects us.

I'm not sure that completely satisfies all of the scriptures that talk of "spirit", but still thinking it through.

One thing that confuses the issue is the translation of several different words from the original languages into the English word "spirit".
I have highlighted the ones that match the concept of life energy in yellow and the ones that are used for phantasms in green.

H178	אוֹב	'owb	familiar spirit(s), bottles
H5397	נְשָׁמָה	nĕshamah	breath, blast, spirit, inspiration, souls
H7307	רוּחַ	ruwach	Spirit or spirit, wind, breath, side, mind, blast, vain, air, anger, cool, courage, misc
H7308	רוּחַ	ruwach (Aramaic)	spirit, wind, mind
G4151	πνεῦμα	pneuma	Spirit, Holy Ghost, Spirit (of God), Spirit (of the Lord), (My) Spirit, Spirit (of truth), Spirit (of Christ), human (spirit), (evil) spirit, spirit (general), spirit, (Jesus' own) spirit, (Jesus' own) ghost
G5326	φάντασμα	phantasma	spirit

 

[genuineoriginal]

They will be raised up in new bodies first. The Greek word translated "rise" does not carry a meaning which you are trying to place on it but it does speak of being raised from the dead.

In the second verse you quoted the living saints will be caught up to meet the saints who had already died physically and are already in the clouds and will have already been raised in new bodies.

You are skipping over the words "together with them" in verse 17.
The believers that remained alive are not caught up by themselves.
They are caught up together with the believers that were raised from the dead.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are skipping over the words "together with them" in verse 17.
The believers that remained alive are not caught up by themselves.
They are caught up together with the believers that were raised from the dead.

The following translation makes the order of the events more clear:

"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thess.15-17).​

The Christians who have already died physically will be with the Lord when He descends from heaven and they will be raised in new bodies first. Then after that the living saints will meet them in the air.

Besides that, can you tell me what Paul was referring to when he used the words "naked" and "unclothed" in the following verses?:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life" (1 Cor.5:1-4).​

Thanks!

 

[genuineoriginal]

The following translation makes the order of the events more clear:

"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thess.15-17).​

The order of events begins with the word "For."

1. The Lord comes down from heaven
2. The dead are made alive
3. All believers are caught up together
4. All believers meet the Lord in the air

The Christians who have already died physically will be with the Lord when He descends from heaven and they will be raised in new bodies first. Then after that the living saints will meet them in the air.

The Christians who have already died physically will not be with the Lord until they meet Him in the air.
(I notice you are trying to change the wording of the verse from "meet the Lord" to "meet the Christians who have already died")

Besides that, can you tell me what Paul was referring to when he used the words "naked" and "unclothed" in the following verses?:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life" (1 Cor.5:1-4).​

As the verses show, Paul is equating being in a body as being "clothed" with a house.
So, when Paul says we shall not be found naked, he is saying we shall not be without a body.
The two choices for bodies are the mortal body (earthly house of this tabernacle) and the immortal body (house not made with hands).
Therefore, the transition is instantaneous from the mortal body to the immortal body.
Now, find out when that transition happens.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So, when Paul says we shall not be found naked, he is saying we shall not be without a body.
The two choices for bodies are the mortal body (earthly house of this tabernacle) and the immortal body (house not made with hands).

So when Paul uses the word "naked" then that can only mean that a person can indeed be without either body. After all, it would make absolutely no sense for him to speak of being without a body unless it is possible for a person to be without a body.

Therefore, the transition is instantaneous from the mortal body to the immortal body.
Now, find out when that transition happens.

If it is instantaneous then there would never be a time when it could be said that the Christian is "naked" or "unclothed." But Paul speaks of such a state.

Now let's look at this passage again:

"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thess.15-17).​

Here are the order of events beginning with what is in "bold"."

First we see that the saints who have already died are raised in new bodies and that happens in the clouds.

And then "after that" the living saints will be caught up together in the clouds to meet those who were already in the clouds and who have already been raised in new bodies. The saints who will have already died descended with the Lord Jesus and that is why they are in the clouds before the living saints are caught to meet them in the air.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So when Paul uses the word "naked" then that can only mean that a person can indeed be without either body. After all, it would make absolutely no sense for him to speak of being without a body unless it is possible for a person to be without a body.

If it is instantaneous then there would never be a time when it could be said that the Christian is "naked" or "unclothed." But Paul speaks of such a state.

Paul specifically states, "we shall not be found naked," showing the transition happens instantly.

First we see that the saints who have already died are raised in new bodies and that happens in the clouds.

That does not happen in the clouds.
The dead in Christ do not even make it to the clouds until they are caught up together with the believers who are still alive at His coming.

 

[God's Truth]

The spirits of those who have died go to be with Christ in heaven.

When Jesus comes again, those spirits come with him.

Those spirits go to the earth and rise up with new bodies

and at the same time, those who have not died, their bodies are changed to new bodies

then all together they meet Jesus in the air.