When does the Biblical month begin?

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

According to these verses it starts with the sighting of the new moon:

1 Samuel 20:18 + 24-27
18 Then Jonathan said to David, “Tomorrow is the New Moon feast [Day1] . You will be missed, because your seat will be empty.

24 So David hid in the field, and when the New Moon feast came [Day1], the king sat down to eat. 25 He sat in his customary place by the wall, opposite Jonathan, and Abner sat next to Saul, but David’s place was empty. 26 Saul said nothing that day, for he thought, “Something must have happened to David to make him ceremonially unclean,20 surely he is unclean.” 27 But the next day, the second day of the month, [Day2] David’s place was empty again. Then Saul said to his son Jonathan, “Why hasn’t the son of Jesse come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

This had to be the visible new moon which can be seen by the naked eye when there is just enough light on the moon to be seen as the first crescent of the waxing moon. It could not be the astronomical new moon as this cannot be seen by the naked eye.

However, the modern Jewish calendar sometimes has the month beginning on the astronomical new moon, such as today, the 16th of February, as can be seen in this link: https://www.hebcal.com/converter/?gd...&gy=2018&g2h=1

But as you can see it is the astronomical new moon is on the 16th of February:

The reason why this is so is because the modern Jewish calendar was invented by Jewish Rabbi Hillel II in 359 AD and he used the 19 year repeating lunar cycle known as the Metonic cycle, (named after the Greek astronomer Meton of Athens) to approximate when the observable new moon is but it is only correct about half the time.

This proves that the modern Jewish calendar is man made and was only designed to replicate God's original Calendar that He gave to Moses and which Jesus also used. The reason why this is important is because all of the feasts Jesus fulfilled were calculated using God's original Calendar, such as:

Passover = Easter
Shavuot = Pentecost
Tabernacles = Harvest Festival

These were the three most important feasts in the year:

Deuteronomy 16:16
Three times a year all your men must appear before the LORD your God at the place he will choose:

1. Passover = Easter - FULFILLED BY JESUS
2. Shavuot = Pentecost - FULFILLED BY JESUS
3. Tabernacles = Harvest festival -TO BE FULFILLED BY JESUS AT HIS SECOND COMING!

And that is why this subject should be so important to Christians.

 

[daqq]

According to these verses it starts with the sighting of the new moon:

1 Samuel 20:18 + 24-27
18 Then Jonathan said to David, “Tomorrow is the New Moon feast [Day1] . You will be missed, because your seat will be empty.

24 So David hid in the field, and when the New Moon feast came [Day1], the king sat down to eat. 25 He sat in his customary place by the wall, opposite Jonathan, and Abner sat next to Saul, but David’s place was empty. 26 Saul said nothing that day, for he thought, “Something must have happened to David to make him ceremonially unclean,20 surely he is unclean.” 27 But the next day, the second day of the month, [Day2] David’s place was empty again. Then Saul said to his son Jonathan, “Why hasn’t the son of Jesse come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

This had to be the visible new moon which can be seen by the naked eye when there is just enough light on the moon to be seen as the first crescent of the waxing moon. It could not be the astronomical new moon as this cannot be seen by the naked eye.

However, the modern Jewish calendar sometimes has the month beginning on the astronomical new moon, such as today, the 16th of February, as can be seen in this link: https://www.hebcal.com/converter/?gd...&gy=2018&g2h=1

But as you can see it is the astronomical new moon is on the 16th of February:

The reason why this is so is because the modern Jewish calendar was invented by Jewish Rabbi Hillel II in 359 AD and he used the 19 year repeating lunar cycle known as the Metonic cycle, (named after the Greek astronomer Meton of Athens) to approximate when the observable new moon is but it is only correct about half the time.

This proves that the modern Jewish calendar is man made and was only designed to replicate God's original Calendar that He gave to Moses and which Jesus also used. The reason why this is important is because all of the feasts Jesus fulfilled were calculated using God's original Calendar, such as:

Passover = Easter
Shavuot = Pentecost
Tabernacles = Harvest Festival

These were the three most important feasts in the year:

Deuteronomy 16:16
Three times a year all your men must appear before the LORD your God at the place he will choose:

1. Passover = Easter - FULFILLED BY JESUS
2. Shavuot = Pentecost - FULFILLED BY JESUS
3. Tabernacles = Harvest festival -TO BE FULFILLED BY JESUS AT HIS SECOND COMING!

And that is why this subject should be so important to Christians.

We already had this discussion and you therefore should already know that moon is not found anywhere in the texts you have quoted, (1Samuel 20:18, 24-27). The greater light and the lesser light are made for signs, and moadim, and yamim, and shanim. The signs are given by the Father, and placed in the hand of Moses in Exo4:2-9, and Moses is not just commanded to perform the signs before the people, (who would believe), but also before Pharaoh, (whose heart would be hardened, Exo4:21-23). At the right hand of Moshe is Ahron like the sun: at his left hand, seven yamim, and moon white as snow, and the waters turn to blood.

You cannot see the signs, O prophet? :chuckle:

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

We already had this discussion and you therefore should already know that moon is not found anywhere in the texts you have quoted, (1Samuel 20:18, 24-27). The greater light and the lesser light are made for signs, and moadim, and yamim, and shanim. The signs are given by the Father, and placed in the hand of Moses in Exo4:2-9, and Moses is not just commanded to perform the signs before the people, (who would believe), but also before Pharaoh, (whose heart would be hardened, Exo4:21-23). At the right hand of Moshe is Ahron like the sun: at his left hand, seven yamim, and moon white as snow, and the waters turn to blood.

You cannot see the signs, O prophet? :chuckle:

You think Samuel, David and Johnathon were either liars or insane (like you), or do you think months do not exist to God. :chuckle:

 

[daqq]

You think Samuel, David and Johnathon were either liars or insane (like you), or do you think months do not exist to God. :chuckle:

As I said to you before: the word therein is חדש, (H2320, Hodesh or Chodesh).
The word for moon is ירח, (H3394, Yareach).
The word for a month is based on yareach.

It is not Samuel or David or Yonathan who are lying or insane: and since you have already been shown this, and reject the truth in favor of your favorite English translations, it is you who is lying or insane. Again, a Hodesh is neither 29 days, nor 30 days, nor 31 days, nor a month, nor what you consider to be the new moon because you do not understand from the Torah what is a new moon because you imagine it to be the black moon. This immediately gets right back to what has already been shown to you about a "hodesh of yamim", and what is a yom according to Gen1, Num7, and the Testimony of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts, and one of the multiple plural forms of yom, that is, yamim: all of these things which you have already mocked and lambasted to your own hardheartedness and blindness. The veil over your heart, mind, and eyes when you read these things will not be removed until your heart is turned toward the Father and His Word because the understanding is only made available though and in the Testimony of the Messiah, (as Paul teaches in 2Cor3:14-16 KJV, the veil is only done away in Messiah).

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

As I said to you before: the word therein is חדש, (H2320, Hodesh or Chodesh).
The word for moon is ירח, (H3394, Yareach).
The word for a month is based on yareach.

It is not Samuel or David or Yonathan who are lying or insane: and since you have already been shown this, and reject the truth in favor of your favorite English translations, it is you who is lying or insane. Again, a Hodesh is neither 29 days, nor 30 days, nor 31 days, nor a month, nor what you consider to be the new moon because you do not understand from the Torah what is a new moon because you imagine it to be the black moon. This immediately gets right back to what has already been shown to you about a "hodesh of yamim", and what is a yom according to Gen1, Num7, and the Testimony of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts, and one of the multiple plural forms of yom, that is, yamim: all of these things which you have already mocked and lambasted to your own hardheartedness and blindness. The veil over your heart, mind, and eyes when you read these things will not be removed until your heart is turned toward the Father and His Word because the understanding is only made available though and in the Testimony of the Messiah, (as Paul teaches in 2Cor3:14-16 KJV, the veil is only done away in Messiah).

Look everyone, daqq can't read, he said; "you do not understand from the Torah what is a new moon because you imagine it to be the black moon."

Again this shows your lack of reading ability as the OP is all about the opposite of what you have said. :rotfl:

You do make me laugh.

 

[daqq]

Look everyone, daqq can't read, he said; "you do not understand from the Torah what is a new moon because you imagine it to be the black moon."

Again this shows your lack of reading ability as the OP is all about the opposite of what you have said. :rotfl:

You do make me laugh.

Oh I can read alright, and that is precisely what I am getting at: your OP is 180 degrees opposite the truth, and the passages which reveal it have already been discussed with you, and you rejected them in favor of your paradigm-calendar-gods which are no gods at all but based on the natural and beggarly elements of the cosmos despite what both Moses and Paul warn you about, (also already discussed with you).

Have a nice thread: I will leave you to your delusion.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Oh I can read alright, and that is precisely what I am getting at: your OP is 180 degrees opposite the truth, and the passages which reveal it have already been discussed with you, and you rejected them in favor of your paradigm-calendar-gods which are no gods at all but based on the natural and beggarly elements of the cosmos despite what both Moses and Paul warn you about, (also already discussed with you).

Have a nice thread: I will leave you to your delusion.

Again this shows your total lack of understanding of what God said about His Calendar that He reveals in the Bible. You even think there are no such things as months! And think I am worshipping gods? You are very strange and I find you highly amusing.:rotfl:

 

[daqq]

Again this shows your total lack of understanding of what God said about His Calendar that He reveals in the Bible. You even think there are no such things as months! And think I am worshipping gods? You are very strange and I find you highly amusing.:rotfl:

That isn't me but again, Paul, as already discussed elsewhere, (Gal4:8,9,10,11, Dt4:19, 17:3). Your calendar by its very definition serves and honors the sun and the moon: all one needs to do is look at the image file you have posted herein with the phases of the moon. The sun and moon are not named as the greater light and the lesser light luminaries of Gen1, and they also are not the signs given to Moses, which lead up to the Rishon Hodesh and the Passover in the opening chapters of the Book of Exodus. Scrap what you think you know and start over because, like the fallen watchers of Enoch, you have received a reprobate mystery. :chuckle:

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

That isn't me but again, Paul, as already discussed elsewhere, (Gal4:8,9,10,11, Dt4:19, 17:3). Your calendar by its very definition serves and honors the sun and the moon: all one needs to do is look at the image file you have posted herein with the phases of the moon. The sun and moon are not named as the greater light and the lesser light luminaries of Gen1, and they also are not the signs given to Moses, which lead up to the Rishon Hodesh and the Passover in the opening chapters of the Book of Exodus. Scrap what you think you know and start over because, like the fallen watchers of Enoch, you have received a reprobate mystery. :chuckle:

:blabla: :yawn:

 

[daqq]

Again this shows your total lack of understanding of what God said about His Calendar that He reveals in the Bible. You even think there are no such things as months! And think I am worshipping gods? You are very strange and I find you highly amusing.:rotfl:

Moreover you speak disingenuously and in falsehood, and should have known that what you say is untrue because of what I said above herein, ("The word for a month is based on yareach", (the moon)), and because of what I have said to you before, for which you called me an idiot for believing the scripture:

Exodus 2:2
2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months [yerachim].

H3391 יֶרחַ yerach (yeh'-rach) n-m.
1. a lunar cycle (new moon to new moon, around 29 days).
2. (generally) a lunar month (beginning and ending on the new moon).
[from a unused root of uncertain signification]
KJV: month, moon.

Sorry for your luck.

And again, sorry for your luck, pseudo-prophet of the left hand side. And now, please stop making statements which you know to be false so that I can leave you to your delusion.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Moreover you speak disingenuously and in falsehood, and should have known that what you say is untrue because of what I said above herein, ("The word for a month is based on yareach", (the moon)), and because of what I have said to you before, for which you called me an idiot for believing the scripture:

And again, sorry for your luck, pseudo-prophet of the left hand side. And now, please stop making statements which you know to be false so that I can leave you to your delusion.

"of the left hand side"

:rotfl: :wave2:

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

The month of Adar (month 12) starts this evening with the first light being seen over Jerusalem on the new moon:

But for 'Jews' like [MENTION=5582]Jacob[/MENTION] it started yesterday on the astronomical new moon that cannot even be seen: https://www.hebcal.com/converter/?gd=16&gm=2&gy=2018&g2h=1

The reason why this is so is because the modern Jewish calendar was invented by Jewish Rabbi Hillel II in 359 AD and he used the 19 year repeating lunar cycle known as the Metonic cycle, (named after the Greek astronomer Meton of Athens) to approximate when the observable new moon is but it is only correct about half the time.

This proves that the modern Jewish calendar is man made and was only designed to replicate God's original Calendar that He gave to Moses and which Jesus also used. The reason why this is important is because all of the feasts Jesus fulfilled were calculated using God's original Calendar, such as:

Passover = Easter
Shavuot = Pentecost
Tabernacles = Harvest Festival

These were the three most important feasts in the year:

Deuteronomy 16:16
Three times a year all your men must appear before the LORD your God at the place he will choose:

1. Passover = Easter - FULFILLED BY JESUS
2. Shavuot = Pentecost - FULFILLED BY JESUS
3. Tabernacles = Harvest festival -TO BE FULFILLED BY JESUS AT HIS SECOND COMING!

And that is why this subject should be so important to Christians.

 

[Jacob]

The month of Adar (month 12) starts this evening with the first light being seen over Jerusalem on the new moon:

But for 'Jews' like [MENTION=5582]Jacob[/MENTION] it started yesterday on the astronomical new moon that cannot even be seen: https://www.hebcal.com/converter/?gd=16&gm=2&gy=2018&g2h=1

The reason why this is so is because the modern Jewish calendar was invented by Jewish Rabbi Hillel II in 359 AD and he used the 19 year repeating lunar cycle known as the Metonic cycle, (named after the Greek astronomer Meton of Athens) to approximate when the observable new moon is but it is only correct about half the time.

This proves that the modern Jewish calendar is man made and was only designed to replicate God's original Calendar that He gave to Moses and which Jesus also used. The reason why this is important is because all of the feasts Jesus fulfilled were calculated using God's original Calendar, such as:

Passover = Easter
Shavuot = Pentecost
Tabernacles = Harvest Festival

These were the three most important feasts in the year:

Deuteronomy 16:16
Three times a year all your men must appear before the LORD your God at the place he will choose:

1. Passover = Easter - FULFILLED BY JESUS
2. Shavuot = Pentecost - FULFILLED BY JESUS
3. Tabernacles = Harvest festival -TO BE FULFILLED BY JESUS AT HIS SECOND COMING!

And that is why this subject should be so important to Christians.

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 12-3.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 12-3.

Shalom.

Jacob

Yes on the man made calendar that started on the astronomical new moon. :chuckle:

 

[Jacob]

Yes on the man made calendar that started on the astronomical new moon. :chuckle:

Shalom.

I do not observe your calendar and I do not know why you have chosen to communicate Chuckle.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Shalom.

I do not observe your calendar and I do not know why you have chosen to communicate Chuckle.

Shalom.

Jacob

Source: https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...odesh-sometimes-one-day-and-sometimes-two.htm

[The original calendar]:

The Jewish calendar was based on the lunar cycle. Since a lunar month is approximately 29 days and twelve hours, we alternate months — one month is twenty-nine days and the next month is thirty. When the Sanhedrin (Rabbinical Supreme Court) was convened, the months were determined by witnesses who testified that they saw the crescent new-moon. The Sanhedrin would assemble on the thirtieth of each month, for perhaps witnesses would come and this day would be designated Rosh Chodesh ("Head of the Month") of the upcoming month (rendering the previous month a 29 day month).

Since the thirtieth day of the month was always potentially Rosh Chodesh, whenever a month has thirty days, the thirtieth day is observed as Rosh Chodesh together with the next day, the first of the following month.

However, if a month has only twenty-nine days, then the Rosh Chodesh of the following month will be only one day—the first of the month.

[On your Hillel II calendar]:

The following months always have two days of Rosh Chodesh (the first day of the month plus the last day of the previous month): Cheshvan, Adar (and Adar II), Iyar, Tammuz, and Elul.

The following months always have one day of Rosh Chodesh: Tishrei,1 Shevat, Nisan, Sivan, and Av.

The months of Kislev and Tevet fluctuate; some years they both have one day of Rosh Chodesh, some years both have two days, and some years Kislev has one day and Tevet has two days Rosh Chodesh.

Jacob. The visually sighted new moon often occurs on different days to the modern Hillel calendar you use as can be seen above. That is a Jewish source: Chabad.

 

[Jacob]

Source: https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...odesh-sometimes-one-day-and-sometimes-two.htm

[The original calendar]:

The Jewish calendar was based on the lunar cycle. Since a lunar month is approximately 29 days and twelve hours, we alternate months — one month is twenty-nine days and the next month is thirty. When the Sanhedrin (Rabbinical Supreme Court) was convened, the months were determined by witnesses who testified that they saw the crescent new-moon. The Sanhedrin would assemble on the thirtieth of each month, for perhaps witnesses would come and this day would be designated Rosh Chodesh ("Head of the Month") of the upcoming month (rendering the previous month a 29 day month).

Since the thirtieth day of the month was always potentially Rosh Chodesh, whenever a month has thirty days, the thirtieth day is observed as Rosh Chodesh together with the next day, the first of the following month.

However, if a month has only twenty-nine days, then the Rosh Chodesh of the following month will be only one day—the first of the month.

[On your Hillel II calendar]:

The following months always have two days of Rosh Chodesh (the first day of the month plus the last day of the previous month): Cheshvan, Adar (and Adar II), Iyar, Tammuz, and Elul.

The following months always have one day of Rosh Chodesh: Tishrei,1 Shevat, Nisan, Sivan, and Av.

The months of Kislev and Tevet fluctuate; some years they both have one day of Rosh Chodesh, some years both have two days, and some years Kislev has one day and Tevet has two days Rosh Chodesh.

Jacob. The visually sighted new moon often occurs on different days to the modern Hillel calendar you use as can be seen above. That is a Jewish source: Chabad.

I do not know how to verify your words. Meaning, this has not been verified to me.

The first month, according to the Torah, is Aviv. I do not know what the words in your post are saying.

I do my Daily Torah Study at Chabad.org. The kippah that I am wearing was given to me as a gift when I visited Chabad.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I do not know how to verify your words. Meaning, this has not been verified to me.

The first month, according to the Torah, is Aviv. I do not know what the words in your post are saying.

I do my Daily Torah Study at Chabad.org. The kippah that I am wearing was given to me as a gift when I visited Chabad.

Shalom.

Jacob

How old are you?

 

[Jacob]

How old are you?

Why?

I was born in the month of Elul.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Why?

I was born in the month of Elul.

If you use Chadbad then why don't you trust what it says about when the month starts?: https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...odesh-sometimes-one-day-and-sometimes-two.htm