What is your answer to "The Race Problem"?
- Thread starter Alate_One
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Alate_One
Well-known member
Conservatives = You're responsible for your own actions no matter what your circumstances.
"Why can't you get out of my way? Oh you're in a wheelchair? Clearly that's your fault. Got cancer? You should have lived healthier, healthy people don't get cancer!"
You're not fully responsible for how you turn out, that's up to your parents. Is it your fault if your parents didn't raise you correctly? you say "then that's the parent's fault". How do you expect to magically get good parents if there are never any good role models around them?
This is exactly what Divided by Faith: Evangelical Religion and the Problem of Race in America. assessed the problem of the Evangelical response to the race problem as - a complete rejection of any structural factors that could explain the pattern and a reliance on hyper-individualistic explanations.
ClimateSanity
New member
Then it seems the law is st fault. They were conducting business as the penalties were deemed tolerable. Fewer blacks are in these jobs. If they held white collar jobs, they would have lighter sentences too.
Alate_One
Well-known member
Personally I think local school control and local funding is part of the problem in some cases.
In our local school district there was someone trying to get on the school board so his wife would get hired, despite the fact she was fired for incompetence from multiple schools. The district also won't vote for any property tax increase so we can build a desperately needed new school. Kids are learning in trailers which we found out had toxic materials inside. Needless to say I'm hoping to leave the area soon. Of course I can afford it, most families here cannot.
gcthomas
New member
Given the research that black suspects are more likely than white suspects to be convicted once they get to court, I suspect you are wrong here.
Whats wrong with that? Were you never taught as a child that your actions carry consequences both good and bad?
Alate_One
Well-known member
Certainly. It's not that actions don't carry consequences, but you should recognize that a person's circumstances can sometimes lead them to either:
not consider the consequences (Youth, inexperience, out of control emotions)
not care about the consequences (hopelessness)
or not know about the consequences (poor education, mental disease)
Now we usually consider the first case as extenuating circumstances but I already linked a paper showing that people typically extend such deference less to young boys of color. They're seen as older and more dangerous by people of both races. They get sentenced as adults far more often.
Point being, actions have consequences is true, but the real world is a lot more complicated in deciding what those consequences are and how likely you are to undertake particular actions.
Neither of which, makes one not responsible for the consequences.
They are still responsible whether or not they own up to it (other than mental disease)
Do you not understand that having an excuse, doesnt mean not responsible. I think liberals ignore that part.
Example: I did this because i had a poor education.
Question: did you apply yourself in school and show up for classes?
No, i wanted to hang out with my friends and those teachers have no authority over me.
Question: did you apply yourself in school and show up for classes?
No, i wanted to hang out with my friends and those teachers have no authority over me.
Oh and heres a flip side:
I did this because i had a poor education.
Question: Did you apply yourself in school and attend classes?
Yes, but the school wouldnt suspend the troublemakers and drug dealers that kept disrupting classes for those who wanted to learn, so i learned nothing other than to act up like they do.
They also wouldnt suspend the poor teachers because of their unions.
I did this because i had a poor education.
Question: Did you apply yourself in school and attend classes?
Yes, but the school wouldnt suspend the troublemakers and drug dealers that kept disrupting classes for those who wanted to learn, so i learned nothing other than to act up like they do.
They also wouldnt suspend the poor teachers because of their unions.
glassjester
Well-known member
Again, it seems like deconcentration of poverty would help.
Example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautreaux_Project
I disagree that just poverty is the issue, if it were, no one would survive a small town.
Alate_One
Well-known member
Honestly I don't know too many liberals who claim people aren't responsible for their actions.
I have never said people are NOT responsible for their actions, however, the race problem cannot be solved by simply telling everyone they're responsible and stopping there. You throw up your hands and say yep they're responsible and walk away. There are structural forces that tend to lead people to make bad decisions.
Instead you figure out policy that makes it easier for people to make good decisions and see a way out of their situation.
These are the kinds of supports most white people take for granted. Not everyone has those supports.
Or the flip flip side. The school had a lot of disruptive kids but the teacher wasn't allowed to kick them out for more than a few days or send them somewhere else. So I was always distracted by these people and I didn't see any way out. I saw my friends were making good money selling drugs so I decided to do that instead of trying for an education that wasn't going to help me anyway.
Most people need role models and if the only role models they see are athletes, singers and drug dealers, they're going to pick one of those models. And when the first two almost never work out, there you are.
You will have some kids that can work through the environment they're in but they're the exceptions, not the rule. It's very difficult for the average person to pull off.
Because teacher unions cause all problems. Seriously? This is your response? I already showed teachers are leaving in droves, it's not the unions keeping them there, it's the desperate need to fill the spots (AKA market forces)
Then you throw in the push for charter schools (which have never been shown to be better than public schools) and you have reduced resources for schools that remain.
Thats easy, bend the knee to God, receive the gospel of salvation and rely on Him.
glassjester
Well-known member
I don't think it's just poverty, either. But that's a very strong correlate of the issues listed in this thread, isn't it?
Just as in a classroom, you wouldn't keep all the problem students together. Whether the issues are behavioral, academic, or (as in most cases) both, concentrating the students with these issues would only worsen things and put greater strain on whatever supports are available to them. Split 'em up.
glassjester
Well-known member
Alate_One
Well-known member
Personal salvation doesn't solve the societal problems that give rise to the race problem. It saves the person, but not their neighbors or family from the deprivation of poverty and generational despair.
The race problem starts at the most basic level. Blacks like grape soda and different TV shows. They play different music and do strange things with their hair. They talk funny and smell weird - I see no hope of coming together; too many differences.And that's without mentioning slavery.
:chuckle:
