What is the Gospel?

[daqq]

My point is that we are not saved just because we have correct understanding of the Bible.

Jesus does not care much about our knowledge how much we know.

He cares if we are striving to be like Him, meaning strive to love God and love one another.

Arguing about the doctrines and ostracizing other believers as non-believer, unsaved, child of devil is so unchristian.

That is going on most churches and of course in this site too.

You do not think the Master cares much about whether or not you understand his doctrine?

Matthew 10:34-37
34 Think not that I am come to send peace upon the land: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come sever a man at from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law.
36 And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household.^{(Micah 7:5,6, Dt 13:6,7,8,9)}
37 The one loving father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and the one loving son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Matthew 15:3-4
3 And he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of Elohim because of your tradition?
4 For Elohim said, Honor your father and your mother: and, The one speaking evil of father or mother, let him die the death.

Matthew 19:16-19
16 And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why do you ask me concerning what is good? One there is who is good: but if you would enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He said to him, Which? And Yeshua said, You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness:
19 Honor your father and your mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as thyself.

Luke 12:51-53
51 Do you suppose that I am come to spread peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay, but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Somehow I do not think you understand what you truly do need to understand.

 

[meshak]

You do not think the Master cares much about whether or not you understand his doctrine?

His doctrine is love God and love one another.

 

[daqq]

His doctrine is love God and love one another.

His doctrine is not his own, (John 7:16,17), and that means it comes from the Tanach-O/T, (which is the Word of the Father). And according to that passage you cannot know the doctrine unless you have a will to do the will of the Father: and the will of the Father is that you cut off sin from your "members", that is, the "unruly members" of your own household.

 

[meshak]

His doctrine is not his own, (John 7:16,17), that means it comes from the Tanach-O/T.

His doctrine comes from His Father.

His Father loves Him so much because Jesus knows love.

God is love, remember?

 

[meshak]

Your knowledge is complicating Jesus' simple teaching of love.

 

[daqq]

Your knowledge is complicating Jesus' simple teaching of love.

Nope, but rather you just ignored the passages which I quoted because you apparently do not care to understand them. That is neither showing love for the Father nor His Son.

 

[meshak]

Nope, but rather you just ignored the passages which I quoted because you apparently do not care to understand them. That is neither showing love for the Father nor His Son.

I am a simple Jesus' follower and servant.

I know we don't need so much knowledge like you to serve Him and learn love from Him.

Do you know Jesus says to have a child like faith?

Your faith is not childlike.

I need to get some sleep.

we can continue later.

thanks,

blessings.

 

[marhig]

If you were IN Christ, you'd know she is not IN Jesus Christ. It's wrong to give people false confidence in a salvation they do not have. You both need to be saved, and stop the deception. :nono:

If Meshak lives as she speaks, she is definitely in Christ, I think you need to look at yourself before you judge the hearts of others and remember the parable of the pharasee and the publican in the temple!!

 

[daqq]

Do you know Jesus says to have a child like faith?

Your faith is not childlike.

I believe all the passages which I quoted to you in post #3301 above, (very simply, like a child), but you apparently do not simply believe them like a child because you ignored and avoided them as if they do not say what they say. Moreover do you not see yourself in the mirror how you are now judging my heart by condemning my faith? How is it that you know me? I first believed, (like a child), in 1979. Perhaps it is time for you to grow up into the knowledge of the Messiah: but how can you grow while you are ignoring his Testimony? And is this not a place specifically designed for people to come and discuss/debate the scriptures? This really is not the greatest place to come and openly ignore the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to love: it shows that your words are only just that, words. No wonder you do not like Paul: he teaches just like the Master does. :chuckle:

 

[marhig]

I believe all the passages which I quoted to you in post #3301 above, (very simply, like a child), but you apparently do not simply believe them like a child because you ignored and avoided them as if they do not say what they say. Moreover do you not see yourself in the mirror how you are now judging my heart by condemning my faith? How is it that you know me? I first believed, (like a child), in 1979. Perhaps it is time for you to grow up into the knowledge of the Messiah: but how can you grow while you are ignoring his Testimony? And is this not a place specifically designed for people to come and discuss/debate the scriptures? This really is not the greatest place to come and openly ignore the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to love: it shows that your words are only just that, words. No wonder you do not like Paul: he teaches just like the Master does. :chuckle:

But daqq, she never said that she doesn't believe the scriptures, but rather that she believes that we don't have to have a deep knowledge of them to belong to Christ, and I agree. Yes we are to read the scriptures but we won't all have deep understanding of them. God gives us progressive revelation so it's gradual, and we grow in God and Christ. But just as the smallest members are important to the natural body, so are those members who are young in God within the body of Christ. They all have the same blood flowing they them which is the blood of Christ.

It's not understanding the depths and the ins and outs of the scriptures, and that comes in time as we live by the will of God and grow in him, and he enlightens us. It's having faith and living by his will first and foremost. And we will know God's true people by their fruits not by their knowledge in knowing every verse. Many study and know the ins and outs of the Bible but they don't have the Spirit and they don't live it out. They are great with words but their hearts are in the world. It's the heart that counts, and those with the right heart will be given wisdom and understanding gradually in God's time.

 

[meshak]

But daqq, she never said that she doesn't believe the scriptures, but rather that she believes that we don't have to have a deep knowledge of them to belong to Christ, and I agree. Yes we are to read the scriptures but we won't all have deep understanding of them. God gives us progressive revelation so it's gradual, and we grow in God and Christ. But just as the smallest members are important to the natural body, so are those members who are young in God within the body of Christ. They all have the same blood flowing they them which is the blood of Christ.

It's not understanding the depths and the ins and outs of the scriptures, and that comes in time as we live by the will of God and grow in him, and he enlightens us. It's having faith and living by his will first and foremost. And we will know God's true people by their fruits not by their knowledge in knowing every verse. Many study and know the ins and outs of the Bible but they don't have the Spirit and they don't live it out. They are great with words but their hearts are in the world. It's the heart that counts, and those with the right heart will be given wisdom and understanding gradually in God's time.

Just to be clear, I have been reading the Bible both OT and NT many times.

MY faith is based on how I understand God and Jesus' overall context of the Bible. If I don't read the bible, I cannot get conclusion of simple faith.

thanks.

 

[meshak]

I believe all the passages which I quoted to you in post #3301 above, (very simply, like a child), but you apparently do not simply believe them like a child because you ignored and avoided them as if they do not say what they say. Moreover do you not see yourself in the mirror how you are now judging my heart by condemning my faith? How is it that you know me? I first believed, (like a child), in 1979. Perhaps it is time for you to grow up into the knowledge of the Messiah: but how can you grow while you are ignoring his Testimony? And is this not a place specifically designed for people to come and discuss/debate the scriptures? This really is not the greatest place to come and openly ignore the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to love: it shows that your words are only just that, words. No wonder you do not like Paul: he teaches just like the Master does. :chuckle:

first of all, your writing style is so poor to be honest.

It is not kind to readers to read.

I believe you will get an F from English teacher.

Second, I have been reading your posts. do you notice I have been giving you tons of thank you reps?

So please judge about my faith fairly.

I have been giving tons of pos reps for not so violent posters.

I cannot give pos reps without knowing their faith and claims.


finally, I ignore lengthy explanation to avoid miscommunication. Especially your kind of writing style is easy to misunderstand.

I know you get offended if I did not read as you intended.

To avoid confusion, I get one point at a time.

I have been refuting every point you are making. I know most of you don't like my kind of communication.

I get to the point without lengthy post.

 

[meshak]

PS,

Besides too many posters quote with tons of references.

Who has time to check if they are quoting correctly?

Lengthy arguments are not smart way if you want readers to read and understand where you are coming from.

thanks.

I have caught many times posters changed the verses.

 

[marhig]

Just to be clear, I have been reading the Bible both OT and NT many times.

MY faith is based on how I understand God and Jesus' overall context of the Bible. If I don't read the bible, I cannot get conclusion of simple faith.

thanks.

Sorry but I wasn't talking about you personally, I did say we need to read the scriptures but not everyone will have a deep understanding of them. I myself only know a little bit, i always say that how much I understand is like a raindrop worth in a cloud full of rain. We only have a limited understanding of the wisdom of God whilst we are in flesh, and it's those who love God from their hearts and are willing to lay down their lives for Christ's sake who receive the most. And you are right, it's all based on love. And those truly following Jesus and living by the will of God will be increasing in knowledge and understanding as they grow on God.

 

[meshak]

Sorry but I wasn't talking about you personally, I did say we need to read the scriptures but not everyone will have a deep understanding of them. I myself only know a little bit, i always say that how much I understand is like a raindrop worth in a cloud full of rain. We only have a limited understanding of the wisdom of God whilst we are in flesh, and it's those who love God from their hearts and are willing to lay down their lives for Christ's sake who receive the most. And you are right, it's all based on love. And those truly following Jesus and living by the will of God will be increasing in knowledge and understanding as they grow on God.

Jesus does not mind at all child like faith, in fact, He recommends it.

Do you think the child understands complicated explanation?

So called "deep understanding" is just show off to me to get accepted by the majority.

I believe deep understanding is to adopt and accept simple and clear messages of Jesus' word.

 

[marhig]

Jesus does not mind at all child like faith, in fact, He recommends it.

Do you think the child understands complicated explanation?

So called "deep understanding" is just show off to me to get accepted by the majority.

I believe deep understanding is to adopt and accept simple and clear messages of Jesus' word.

So do i, and to understand who he truly is and his true message. His message and the scriptures are far more simple than what many try to work out in their own minds. You are missunderstanding what I'm saying it's not all complicated like many say, people complicate God's word. God is love and everything in the Bible is based on love. Anyway, I'm out and about ATM, speak soon.

 

[meshak]

So do i, and to understand who he truly is and his true message. His message and the scriptures are far more simple than what many try to work out in their own minds. You are missunderstanding what I'm saying it's not all complicated like many say, people complicate God's word. God is love and everything in the Bible is based on love. Anyway, I'm out and about ATM, speak soon.

If you believe scripture is simple why do you think we should have deep understanding or complicated to grow in the faith?

Do you think prophesy is simple?

There are many, many prophesies in the Bible. Do you understand Daniel's whole prophesy?

And they use the expression about it they don't understand.

Peter said Paul's teaching is hard to understand.

It seems clear to me many Christians believe understanding complicated verses are proof of mature faith or Christian.

I hope you get my point.

 

[marhig]

If you believe scripture is simple why do you think we should have deep understanding or complicated to grow in the faith?

Do you think prophesy is simple?

There are many, many prophesies in the Bible. Do you understand Daniel's whole prophesy?

And they use the expression about it they don't understand.

Peter said Paul's teaching is hard to understand.

It seems clear to me many Christians believe understanding complicated verses are proof of mature faith or Christian.

I hope you get my point.

I didn't say that we have to have deep understanding or that it is complicated to grow in faith.

When the disciples said increase our faith, Jesus spoke to them. We receive faith by hearing the word, and we also grow in faith by the word of God.

And it's not having a deeper understanding that's the most important thing, it's truly following Jesus, having true faith in God and Christ and living by the will of God. But the understanding comes over time through progressive revelation.

Do you see that the scriptures have a deeper meaning? As in allegories and metaphors etc?

 

[Right Divider]

Peter said Paul's teaching is hard to understand.

Why would Peter say such a thing if God gave them both the identical message to preach?

 

[meshak]

I didn't say that we have to have deep understanding or that it is complicated to grow in faith.

When the disciples said increase our faith, Jesus spoke to them. We receive faith by hearing the word, and we also grow in faith by the word of God.

And it's not having a deeper understanding that's the most important thing, it's truly following Jesus, having true faith in God and Christ and living by the will of God. But the understanding comes over time through progressive revelation.

Do you see that the scriptures have a deeper meaning? As in allegories and metaphors etc?

I will not debate or argue what is deeper understanding.

That will muddy the discussion which I always try to avoid.

My posts are mostly simple so everyone can get my point unless you don't want to agree with my claims.

And I understand that is target for my opponent to discredit my claims.