Sonnet
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I would expect a clear unambiguous statement that summarises the essential elements of the good news.
Instead, we observe the opposite.
ECT What is the Gospel?
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I would expect a clear unambiguous statement that summarises the essential elements of the good news.
Instead, we observe the opposite.
Sonnet
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Right Divider
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Lon
Well-known member
I know of many who would, including me. Don't get caught up so much in this group or that group: read the scriptures. Even though we may disagree, not one of us who name the Name of Christ, would cut up our Bible nor neglect preaching/teaching the whole thing. God leads. It is my experience that those who read it often disagree less and less, not more and more. Rose-colored glasses? Maybe, but my advice is to not so much listen to advice, though we certainly are to encourage one another, but rather pray for wisdom and read. James 1:5
Eagles Wings
New member
And here is the main attraction, er, I mean distraction, with the OP.
Divide, confuse and conquer.
Divide, confuse and conquer.
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Perhaps you are relying on the wrong sources.
Rather than ask about their conclusion, ask about the source on which they drew their conclusion.
And then go to that source yourself and see if what they say is true or not.
The source for the truth of the gospel is scripture.
Even the great apostle, Paul, said to not trust his words without checking scripture to see if his words were truth or not.
You are, as usual, economical with the truth.
Right Divider
Body part
Thanks
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: I can summarize the gospel and would expect very few to argue the point. Romans 3:23 All have sinned and fall short of God's glory (not good-news, but a starting point and all of us in need). Romans 5:8 While we were/are yet sinners, Christ died for us (not good news, but a remedy in the making, something God begins to address the need, which is good news - God is addressing the great need). Romans 6:23 The wages of sin, is death, but the gift of God is eternal life (Eternal life from death, this IS the good news, Nobody nobody nobody will disagree that it is good news. They may say something else is a bit more important, but they will not disagree this is good news (gospel). Romans 10:9-11 This is 'how' to have the good news apply to you. THIS is where there are disagreements, not what the good news is, but 'how' to ensure it applies to you. "How you receive and keep" the gospel is where you see disagreements.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Different definition of the word "our".
They still preach the death, burial, and resurrection.
The last few posts sum up salvation and why you should believe the Gospel message very nicely, Sonnet. You should be looking to scripture for your answers, not TOL members.
I see you going around in circles again in this thread trying to divide TOL members against each other I am going to lock this thread.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I see you going around in circles again in this thread trying to divide TOL members against each other I am going to lock this thread.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Sonnet,
Your question is legitimate.
But your assumptions in asking it are false.
The first false assumption you make is that, as a non-believer, you can be interested in knowing what the good news is. Heb 11:6KJV. It's like a man who doesn't believe that water exists saying he is interested in learning to swim.
The second false assumption is that the good news can be understood without first knowing the bad news. The bad news must be believed before the good news can be appreciated. God begins by explaining the bad news in Genesis. But the non-believer does not believe in God or sin. Rom 5:8KJV
All Christians agree on vital specifics. They all confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. The fact that there are differences of opinion on many topics is only proof of how far out of fellowship with our Creator each of us have strayed and how right the Bible is. Rom 3:23KJV. But why is it surprising that there is disagreement? Do all economists, politicians, philosophers, artists agree?
You are an outsider, a blind man, a fool who says there is no God - but please, tell me about His good news!
You cannot believe because you do not have faith. You do not have faith because you will not ask.
But if you do ask, from your heart, for faith, then you will already possess it because you will have believed that the one you have asked can give it to you. John 16:24KJV
Sonnet
New member
I will respond - but I thought the thread had been locked?
In a sense, you have inadvertently touched on your actual problem, unaware that you have touched on it.
Your reading into a thing.
Case in point, Sherman wrote "I see you going around in circles again in this thread trying to divide TOL members against each other I am going to lock this thread."
But how a thing reads, or what it says, is not necessarily the same as what was meant by it.
Obviously, what was meant by what was said - even exactly as it was worded - was IF "I see you going around in circles AGAIN in this thread trying to divide TOL members against each other THEN I am going to lock this thread."
In contrast, you read into that "I am going to lock this thread. Period."
And yet, here you are, demanding all be on some sort of all on the same page to some sort of a satisfaction on your part - a standard you yourself have just proven even you can fall short of :chuckle:
Reminds me of the following - from some two thousand years ago...
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Nevertheless, Romans 5:8 towards you.
Why?
In what sense?
In the sense of...
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
And you have just now proven how less then perfect you yourself are, at meeting the very standard you expect one and all to meet - that of all somehow being on the same page to your satisfaction.
Thank God for Romans 5:8, on your behalf :chuckle:
Sonnet
New member
You are right - I didn't read Sherman's post carefully.
Sonnet
New member
For your water analogy to work then it would have to be the case that two diametrically opposed definitions of water existed.
Sonnet
New member
Romans 5:8 is good news.
In your opinion:
1. Is it a fact that Calvinists deny Christ died for all men without exception?
2. Are Calvinists assumed to be 'real' Christians on these forums?
3. Doesn't the Calvinist view contradict Romans 5:8 and result in two different Gospel's leaving the unbeliever puzzled as to what it is he is being asked to believe in?
Sonnet
New member
Ok Sherman - perhaps if I do transgress the thread could be moved rather than closed, please?
Sonnet
New member
Romans 9:11-24
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
I met a guy on the old BBC christian forum which is now closed down. He'd been brought up in a "Christian Home" and with youthful zeal has accepted everything he was taught. He went Bible College and worked as an evangelist and then a pastor. Then something happened in his life that caused him to pause and equate the circumstance in view of all he had professed and lived by. His conclusion was that Elohim did not exist, because if He did, He could never have allowed...whatever, to occur.
He dedicated his time to trying to convince people like me that what I trusted in was futile. He even opened a website dedicated to his new found zeal.
I sense the same deceptive spirit at work in you. He was far more honest than you, but he would never admit to what had happened...
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