What is the express image of God?

[aikido7]

The reality of God has and always will be static. Apostasism is what men fall into and think they have changed their perception of truth when in reality they have stopped believing in the truth and taken on their own perceptions.

The divine and the sacred are always mediated through a particular belief system.
Otherwise, we would never acknowledge the abrupt changes in people's experience of God.

The evidence for different opinions, interpretations, traditions and theologies can be found all through the Bible. It is natural and is what we should expect.

 

[StanJ]

The divine and the sacred are always mediated through a particular belief system.
Otherwise, we would never acknowledge the abrupt changes in people's experience of God.
The evidence for different opinions, interpretations, traditions and theologies can be found all through the Bible. It is natural and is what we should expect.

As Christians, we only have ONE mediator...Jesus. Growth is always something we should experience as a Christian, not regression.
I'm afraid those things are found in MAN, not the Bible.

 

[keypurr]

So now we don't inherit Eternal LIFE, we become pillars in a building?
WOW, you are VERY confused.

You did see where Jesus said he has a God, right?

If Jesus has a God he can not be God.

I know that this is above your intellectual level, but try to understand it.

 

[keypurr]

As Christians, we only have ONE mediator...Jesus. Growth is always something we should experience as a Christian, not regression.
I'm afraid those things are found in MAN, not the Bible.

Is Jesus the mediator or God.
Can't be both.

 

[StanJ]

You did see where Jesus said he has a God, right?

If Jesus has a God he can not be God.

I know that this is above your intellectual level, but try to understand it.

You did see where Jesus said He is God right?

If Jesus said this why don't you believe Him.

I know this involves some form of intellect which you don't have much of, but TRY.

 

[StanJ]

Is Jesus the mediator or God.
Can't be both.

Of course He can and we've been over this bridge keypurr. You're just going around in circles because you are STUCK in your apostate condition.

 

[keypurr]

You did see where Jesus said He is God right?

If Jesus said this why don't you believe Him.

I know this involves some form of intellect which you don't have much of, but TRY.

No, I do not see where Jesus said he was God.
This verse tells you about HIS God.

But you do not wish to see that, do you?

 

[Bright Raven]

No, I do not see where Jesus said he was God.
This verse tells you about HIS God.

But you do not wish to see that, do you?

Well you need to look closer. According to the Pharisees, who could forgive sin?

Mark 2:2-12 King James Version (KJV)

2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.

4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

 

[keypurr]

Well you need to look closer. According to the Pharisees, who could forgive sin?

Mark 2:2-12 King James Version (KJV)

2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.

4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

You forget that Christ came with the fullness of his father. God gave him this ability. But that does not make him God friend. All authority was given to him by his God.

This is why folks get confused. Christ is said to be a form of God in Phil 2, he took the form of man by dwelling in the body prepared for him, Jesus.

 

[Bright Raven]

You forget that Christ came with the fullness of his father. God gave him this ability. But that does not make him God friend. All authority was given to him by his God.

This is why folks get confused. Christ is said to be a form of God in Phil 2, he took the form of man by dwelling in the body prepared for him, Jesus.

John 10:37-38 King James Version (KJV)

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

 

[keypurr]

John 10:37-38 King James Version (KJV)



37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.



38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

We can be one with God and his Christ also. But Christ is the only one who was given the power of the father. Christ is a god, theos if I understand it correctly. Christ was created by the Father. I know that s a strange idea to digest, but it is true. Christ came to do the will of his Father, he was sent. This is what I have been trying to show you friend. Christ is a spirit that needed a body to become a man. He died as a man for our sins. God can not do that, he needed a son to do that. Christ told you that his Father is greater than ALL. Only the Father is the true God, every thing else is created.

 

[meshak]

We can be one with God and his Christ also. But Christ is the only one who was given the power of the father. Christ is a god, theos if I understand it correctly. Christ was created by the Father. I know that s a strange idea to digest, but it is true. Christ came to do the will of his Father, he was sent. This is what I have been trying to show you friend. Christ is a spirit that needed a body to become a man. He died as a man for our sins. God can not do that, he needed a son to do that. Christ told you that his Father is greater than ALL. Only the Father is the true God, every thing else is created.

It is all written clearly and simply yet trins cannot see it.

It is so strange.

 

[Bright Raven]

We can be one with God and his Christ also. But Christ is the only one who was given the power of the father. Christ is a god, theos if I understand it correctly. Christ was created by the Father. I know that s a strange idea to digest, but it is true. Christ came to do the will of his Father, he was sent. This is what I have been trying to show you friend. Christ is a spirit that needed a body to become a man. He died as a man for our sins. God can not do that, he needed a son to do that. Christ told you that his Father is greater than ALL. Only the Father is the true God, every thing else is created.

Jesus is not a god. He is God Almighty. Until you come to know this, you will never have peace.

Isaiah 9:6King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Good luck if continue to believe anything else.

 

[StanJ]

It is all written clearly and simply yet trins cannot see it.
It is so strange.

As you yourself don't seem to be able to actually SHOW where it is clearly written, this doesn't really carry much import.

 

[StanJ]

No, I do not see where Jesus said he was God.
This verse tells you about HIS God.

Well I guess that puts you and those Pharisees on the same level of non-understanding. They didn't believe Him either when He said;

• I and the Father are one.
• If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
  [*]If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
  [*]You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
  [*]If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
  [*]You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
  [*]Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
  

But you keep on ignoring the truth. You won't have a leg to stand on when asked why you didn't confess Him as your God and Savior.

 

[keypurr]

Well I guess that puts you and those Pharisees on the same level of non-understanding. They didn't believe Him either when He said;

• I and the Father are one.
• If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
  [*]If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
  [*]You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
  [*]If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
  [*]You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
  [*]Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
  

But you keep on ignoring the truth. You won't have a leg to stand on when asked why you didn't confess Him as your God and Savior.

I pray that someday you will know what you just posted.

 

[freelight]

'God' is the One and Only Source of reality....no matter how distorted by humans

'God' is the One and Only Source of reality....no matter how distorted by humans

Jesus is not a god. He is God Almighty. Until you come to know this, you will never have peace.

That the 'logos' was 'a' god, is a possible translation of John1:1, or simply that the logos was 'divine', being of the nature of 'God', since the 'logos' has no other source but 'God', as everything else that is 'generated' from 'God'

While the 'word'(creative thought) was ever with-in 'God' (Universal Consciousness), being eternally inherent in 'God', the 'word' is still an eternal creation or generation of 'God'. A 'father' is always ancestral to a 'son',....hence a 'son' is always understood to be 'begotten' of a father. A 'son' is always subordinate to a 'father', being his 'offspring', proceeding therefrom.

Isaiah 9:6King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

See: Isaiah 9:6 oly: (same video below with additional commentary)

Is. 9:6 (explained)

A sound biblical Unitarian view of God and Jesus is just as good or logical than an assumed 'trinitarian' one. As 'Christology' evolved within Christianity, theologians spent centuries debating over the precise 'ratio' of Jesus assumed 'human' and/or 'divine' natures. From there you have every imaginable 'doctrine' and 'heresy' come forth, as attempts to define Jesus constitution....became so critical. That he serves as or is 'Messiah', an anointed man of 'God' is enough for orthodox Jews and some Unitarians, but not good enough for those who would wholly divinitize Jesus.

Again,...there is no reason to make Jesus 'God Almighty' since the Jewish Messiah by definition is not that. We could go into all the kinds of 'Christology', but I find none that convince me to became a staunch or dogmatic Trinitarian (imagine that ) over a more liberal Unitarian of sorts, although I often do give Jesus all kinds of nuances of being 'divine', in a metaphysical sense, as Jesus does hold the pure archetype of being BOTH 'Son of Man' & 'Son of God', being the perfect epitome of both human and divine natures in perfect concord. Such is the 'divine Man', the 'second' or last Adam, or the 'Adam Kadmon'. All men bear this divine image, imprint, expression and POTENTIAL,....as they become partakers of the divine nature and choose to foster sonship with God, doing His will. These universal truths and principles are pretty fundamental.

~*~*~

My former post also holds, as all there is...is CONSCIOUSNESS. - since 'God' is INFINITE INTELLIGENCE....everything and everyone is an image of 'God', born from, derived out of the One and Only Consciousness existing. All there is...is that! God is One. God is All. So,...whether you want to exalt one 'image' or 'person' above another, is pretty much a relative exercise of the mind(ego), comparing 'this' with 'that',...just a role playing game of duality, a kaleidoscope of varied perceptions.


In-joy,





pj

 

[daqq]

Jesus is not a god. He is God Almighty. Until you come to know this, you will never have peace.

Isaiah 9:6King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Good luck if continue to believe anything else.

The Young's Literal Bible Translation has already been posted in this thread and it totally refutes your version and your understanding:

Isaiah 9:6 YLT
6. For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.

The Princely Power, (of the empire, "ha-misrah") was upon the shoulder of the man Yeshua and the man Yeshua calls His Name: "Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace."

But besides this and all of the other things that have already been shown and discussed in this thread the primary error in what you have said is that you make a worse mistake than Moses did, (and he only made one mistake which he paid dearly for). How then will you escape the Judgement that comes with not giving the Father the glory? You will certainly NEVER enter "the Land" if you do not repent and give the Father the glory. Moses was kept from leading the people into the Land for the same reason, (but he entered the Land afterwards because we see him in the Land when he appears with Elijah, and they with Yeshua, in the holy mount at the transfiguration event). When you make Yeshua equal to the Father you ignore just about everything written in the Torah and Tanach before he came. He did not do what you do and neither did he ever ask or command anyone to bow down and worship himself: you do that of your own accord, and it is essentially a works and rewards based form of religion no different than the heathen nations of old, turning a man into your god. You have not only the one great "work" which you did when you prayed the so-called "sinners prayer" and decided for yourself on which day and in what hour you would be "saved" by your prayer, (which in itself is heretical and preposterous, as if you get to decide when and where you will be "saved" by doing your one great work and "giving yourself to God") but likewise you elevate a man to Godhead equality status so that you can essentially replace the Father with the man Yeshua. You may say that you do not do this but that is invariably always the result when you make yourself two equal masters: the man will always choose the one he prefers over the other, and he will love the one and hate the other, for a man cannot serve two masters, and this is the direct Testimony of Yeshua himself. Your second great "work" is your reward to Yeshua for "saving" you and that is your worship of him, as God Almighty, as a reward for supposedly taking all of your punishment which you apparently assume allows you to continue in your sins. For the same reason this is why the Trinitarian view has become so critically important to mainstream Christianity; for if one does not agree with your atonement theology and worship Jesus as God Almighty, so as to reward him for "saving" the individual, then the same cannot be "saved" because he or she completely disrupts and violates your pagan reward system.

Isaiah 45:1-13
1. Thus says YHWH to his Mashiyach-Christos, to Kyros, [Septuagint Kyros-Kuros-Kyrios-Kurios] whose right hand I have taken, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates, and the gates shall not be shut:
2. I will go before you, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3. And I will give you treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, [Matthew 13:35] that you may know that I am YHWH, He that calls you by your name, Elohey Yisrael.
4. For the sake of Yacob My servant, and Yisrael My chosen one, I have even called you by your name: I have surnamed you, [Elohey Yisrael] though you have not known Me.
5. I am YHWH, there is no other, there is no Elohim but Me: I gird you, though you have not known Me.
6. That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me. I am YHWH, and there is none else:
7. I form the light, and cut down darkness: I make peace, and cut down evil: I, YHWH, do all these things.
8. Drop down you heavens from above, and let the skies pour down tsedek-righteousness; let the earth open up, and let it bring forth the fruits of yesha-deliverance, and let tsdaqah-righteousness tsamach-sprout-shoots united: I YHWH did cut him down.
9. Woe unto him that strives with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashions it, What are you making? or, Your work has no handles?
10. Woe unto him that says unto his Father, What begettest you? or to the woman, What have you brought forth?
11. Thus says YHWH, the Holy One of Yisrael and his Maker, Of things to come inquire you concerning My sons? and concerning the work of My hands command you Me?
12. I make the earth, and a man cut down upon it: I, even My hands, stretch out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13. I raise him up in tsdaqah-righteousness, and all his ways shall be straight: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, says YHWH Tsabaoth.

You fail to give the glory to the Father, just as Moses did in Numbers 20:10, but instead you make it twofold worse by replacing the Father with His Own Right Arm which He sent to you with the good news gospel and message of the kingdom. Therefore in your view no one may be "saved" unless they do as you do and begin rewarding your god with complete adoration and worship. However Yeshua never demanded worship from you or anyone else and the scripture clearly states that he was not ashamed to call those willing to become sanctified his BRETHREN. You therefore destroy the logic in every logical analogy and allegory that is given in the scripture because you replace the Father with the Son and worship him who says he is our brother: you worship the leader of the worship service while he and all his brethren worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

:sheep:

 

[meshak]

You fail to give the glory to the Father, just as Moses did in Numbers 20:10, but instead you make it twofold worse by replacing the Father with His Own Right Arm which He sent to you with the good news gospel and message of the kingdom. Therefore in your view no one may be "saved" unless they do as you do and begin rewarding your god with complete adoration and worship. However Yeshua never demanded worship from you or anyone else and the scripture clearly states that he was not ashamed to call those willing to become sanctified his BRETHREN. You therefore destroy the logic in every logical analogy and allegory that is given in the scripture because you replace the Father with the Son and worship him who says he is our brother: you worship the leader of the worship service while he and all his brethren worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

:sheep:

Exactly.

 

[StanJ]

The Young's Literal Bible Translation has already been posted in this thread and it totally refutes your version and your understanding:

Isaiah 9:6 YLT
6. For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.

So you believe a one man translation over 100 years old is more trustworthy over the modern committee versions? You really think "doth" was in the Greek?

Now if you do then why don't you show keypurr that Jesus' name according to this is also "Mighty God" AND "Prince of Peace"? He is our GOD and our Savior.