What is the express image of God?

Ardima

New member
Okay, so you have answered the question by stating that the meaning of the word does not change and only God is good. Therefore you do in fact believe that Joseph of Aramathaea and Barnabas are God because according to your understanding of the statement only God is good and Luke says of both of them that they are good.

You need to learn how to read, I mean actually read. There is much more to reading than just knowing what the words are. I explained it to you clearly more than once. If you cannot understand what was actually being said based on context and grammar you might as well throw in the towel or go back to high school and take an English class.

It would have been much easier though if you would have simply relinquished your false understanding of what Yeshua was saying to begin with because if he is claiming to be God by that statement then clearly Joseph and Barnabas are also God.:eek:

It would be much easier if you would attempt to understand the grammatical composition that I have explained to you instead of ignoring it and saying that I claim the exact opposite of the proof I gave you. You are being intentionally dishonest and willingly ignorant of the truth. Nevertheless, I will try only once more (for I do not have the patience that God does).

God is good. Do you understand what that means? It means that His very being, His complete existence, essence is good. God is being equated/defined as good. When you use the word "good" to describe something-- in your case men -- it becomes an adjective, a descriptor. The passage you provide does not say that Joseph was good; it says that Joseph was a good man. It is the exact same thing with Barnabas; it says that Barnabas was a good man. In both cases Joseph and Barnabas are being equated with man.... Barnabas was a good man. Joseph was a good man. They were good men.

Now, with the premise that God is good, we can change "good" to "God" in each instance according to its grammatical use....

"God is good." "Good" here is used as a noun that defines the subject. So in this sentence "good" can be understood as "God is God". It seems a little redundant, but it is extremely accurate.

Now we have, "Joseph was a good man." Since "good" in this sentence is an adjective, we must use the adjective form of "God" which is "godly." So it is then understood to be, "Joseph was a godly man."

Finally we have, "Barnabas was a good man." Again since "good" in this sentence is an adjective, it is again understood to be, "Barnabas was a godly man." Do you see the difference? Now lets apply this to what Jesus said.

"Why do you call me good?" The key to understanding this is knowing how the word "good" is being used. In this sentence "you" is the subject, "call" is the action verb, and "me" is the direct object. That means "good" is the object compliment; that is, a noun that defines the direct object. In this case "good" it the object compliment defining the direct object "me." So this can be understood to be, "Why do you call me God?"

We can go even further with this and use it to present the whole verse in its true meaning....

" Why do you call me God? There is no God but one, that is God." Again it seems redundant, but it simplifies and gives an extremely accurate meaning of what is actually being said.

Now for fun lets apply this to Matthew 7:17...

"Even so every good tree brings forth beautiful fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit." "Good" here is again used as an adjective so it is understood to be, "Even so every godly tree brings forth beautiful fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit." It makes perfect sense because evil is simply the absence of godliness.

If this doesn't help you understand then you are either genuinely slow of mind, or you are a fool (stupid on purpose). If it is the latter case I will just shake the dust off of my feet and move on.
 

daqq

Well-known member
You need to learn how to read, I mean actually read. There is much more to reading than just knowing what the words are. I explained it to you clearly more than once. If you cannot understand what was actually being said based on context and grammar you might as well throw in the towel or go back to high school and take an English class.

From the top here is your scripture quote with your statement:

Red emphasis mine:

Does anyone ever get the reason for context?

(Matthew 19:16-17) And, behold, one came and said unto him, "Good Master, what good thing must I do, that I may have age-abiding life?" (17) And he said unto him, "Why do you call me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if you are determined to enter into life, keep the commandments."


Look at the way Jesus responds to this person. Jesus is not saying that he is not good. It was a rhetorical question to make the person think of the implications of what he was saying. Note how Jesus was quick to put in the "but" indicating that the question preceding it was rhetorical.

"Why do you call me good? There is none good but one, that is, God," is really Jesus way of saying, either call me good because you believe I am God or don't call me good at all.


Not only do you place a severely undue restriction upon the meaning of what is said but you force the issue by putting words into the mouth of Messiah by saying that he wants people to either believe he is God or not even call him good at all. This is nothing more than YOUR way of thinking so that you can force the text to say what YOU desire it to say. This was also previously discussed during this same conversation and the result is that you, as a "little elohim", (to whom supposedly the Logos of Elohim has come) have essentially put yourself and your reasoning before YHWH Elohim and His Word and therefore come awfully close to breaking the first of the Ten Words, (as discussed on the previous page) O ye little elohim. :crackup:

Here you are again in the next posting making your emphatic statement even more clear by plainly stating that Yeshua is claiming to be God in the passage which you quoted from Matthew:

No, my argument was only God is Good. The premise I start off with is God is Good, which then leads to the conclusion that Jesus is claiming to be God as he does at other times in scripture.

Yet, as also already shown on the previous page, the passage which you originally quote to make the foundation of your point is actually a passage in dispute and more likely does not even say anything near what you, the KJV, and the Textus Receptus purport it to say. In this passage the one asking the initial question NEVER EVEN CALLS HIM GOOD AND "GOD" IS NOT MENTIONED:

Matthew 19:16-17 ASV
16. And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:16-17 RSV
16. And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"
17. And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 19:16-17 NIV
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”


You already lost the initial argument two or three posts back.
I've just been going with the flow, ehem, and reading. :)
 

daqq

Well-known member
Daqq, I wish I had your ability to retain things like you do.

A scripture prayer you: :)

Numbers 21:16-18
16. And from there they continued to Beer; that is the well of which YHWH said unto Moses, "Gather the people together, and I will give them water."
17. Then Israel sang this song: "Spring up, O well!--Sing to it!--
18. The well which the princes dug, which the nobles of the people delved, with the lawgiver and with their staves." And from the wilderness they went on to Mattanah:


Spring up, O well! :)
Honey from the Cela-Rolling-Rock, (Son)
And Shemen Oil from the flinty Tsur-Foundation-Rock, (Father).
 

Ardima

New member
From the top here is your scripture quote with your statement:

Red emphasis mine:Not only do you place a severely undue restriction upon the meaning of what is said but you force the issue by putting words into the mouth of Messiah by saying that he wants people to either believe he is God or not even call him good at all. This is nothing more than YOUR way of thinking so that you can force the text to say what YOU desire it to say. This was also previously discussed during this same conversation and the result is that you, as a "little elohim", (to whom supposedly the Logos of Elohim has come) have essentially put yourself and your reasoning before YHWH Elohim and His Word and therefore come awfully close to breaking the first of the Ten Words, (as discussed on the previous page) O ye little elohim. :crackup:

Here you are again in the next posting making your emphatic statement even more clear by plainly stating that Yeshua is claiming to be God in the passage which you quoted from Matthew:



Yet, as also already shown on the previous page, the passage which you originally quote to make the foundation of your point is actually a passage in dispute and more likely does not even say anything near what you, the KJV, and the Textus Receptus purport it to say. In this passage the one asking the initial question NEVER EVEN CALLS HIM GOOD AND "GOD" IS NOT MENTIONED:

Matthew 19:16-17 ASV
16. And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:16-17 RSV
16. And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"
17. And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 19:16-17 NIV
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”


You already lost the initial argument two or three posts back.
I've just been going with the flow, ehem, and reading. :)

You couldn't even respond to my last post so you have to go back to try to save your argument another way. Its sad really, I was hoping you wouldn't turn out to be a fool. I am brushing the dust off of my feet.
 

daqq

Well-known member
You couldn't even respond to my last post so you have to go back to try to save your argument another way. Its sad really, I was hoping you wouldn't turn out to be a fool. I am brushing the dust off of my feet.

Once again you prove that you do not truly believe the words of Messiah and likewise neither do you believe he is God as you claim because if you did you would fear, respect, and heed his words, and do them. However your brainwashing has engrained in you that God took your place and became your sin so that you could become perfect like God by trading places with God and sending him off into the wilderness like a scapegoat with all your sins upon his mortally wounded head, (while nothing could be further from the truth). Therefore now you are become as God, knowing good and evil, but none of the laws, rules, not even the words of Messiah apply to you because you are "saved" and therefore get to murder-death-kill all the day long without consequence.

Matthew 5:22
22. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


And no one but the brainwashed would try to tell everyone that this statement actually means the opposite of what it says:

"Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, Elohim."

It is clearly and plainly not a claim to Godhead status but rather appears to be claiming just the opposite because Yeshua objects to being called good, and this rightly so, out of the genuine reverential fear of YHWH which is the beginning of wisdom.

Here is an example for you in simpler terms as also you offered me.
I will use the descriptive "happy" instead of "good" to make my point:

Why do you call me happy? No one is happy but one, the King of Happy.

Now do you suppose I just claimed to be the King of Happy?
If you do, I say you are the king of boni macaroni word twistaroni.
I'm no fool, no sirey, I'm gonna live to be a hundred and twenty three. :crackup:
 
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Jacob

BANNED
Banned
I will not break the commandments of God to follow the established churches. The church of the Bible is not an organized religious club house. The church in scripture in written in the hearts and minds of the folks that love God and the son he sent. I do not reject God, I reject the man made false teaching that have crept into the established churches. There is no other true God than the Father. Christ is not God, he is the son of God.

The son of a plumber is not a plumber. He is the son of the plumber. So it is with the son of God. He is a servant of his Father. He obeys his Father out of love for his Father. That does not make him God or his Father.

Christ is the spiritual son of the most high God. He is a created form of God for it was given the fullness of the Father, and the Father was pleased with that.

Tho shall have no other Gods before me says the Lord your God. Ex 20:1-17
There is nothing about the church being a religious club house in the Bible.

There is one God, and I believe the one true God (the living God, creator of heaven and earth) had a son, Jesus the Christ.

Do you believe the Messiah was to come and did not exist yet? Or do you believe there was a Messiah that already existed and was to come? For I believe the prophets spoke of the Messiah who was yet to come who I believe to be Jesus.

My understanding is that the Trinity doctrine agrees that the Son is not the Father, which you or I know whether the Trinity doctrine is brought up or not.

All of this said I question you when you say this: "Christ is the spiritual son of the most high God. He is a created form of God for it was given the fullness of the Father, and the Father was pleased with that."
 

daqq

Well-known member
The express image of God is the invisible God made visible.....God.

The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation: neither shall they say, "Look, here it is!" or, "See, over there!" for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is inside you, (Luke 17:20-21). :)
 

keypurr

Well-known member
There is nothing about the church being a religious club house in the Bible.

But that is what it has become.

There is one God, and I believe the one true God (the living God, creator of heaven and earth) had a son, Jesus the Christ.

We Agree

Do you believe the Messiah was to come and did not exist yet? Or do you believe there was a Messiah that already existed and was to come? For I believe the prophets spoke of the Messiah who was yet to come who I believe to be Jesus.

No question in my mind, Jesus was the Messiah

My understanding is that the Trinity doctrine agrees that the Son is not the Father, which you or I know whether the Trinity doctrine is brought up or not.

Many think they are the same. I don't

All of this said I question you when you say this: "Christ is the spiritual son of the most high God. He is a created form of God for it was given the fullness of the Father, and the Father was pleased with that."

God is a spirit, his son is the exact image of him. A spirit. All images are created. So it is not unreasonable to see that God created a form of God when he gave this form his fullness.

God is the ONLY uncreated being.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
A scripture prayer you: :)

Numbers 21:16-18
16. And from there they continued to Beer; that is the well of which YHWH said unto Moses, "Gather the people together, and I will give them water."
17. Then Israel sang this song: "Spring up, O well!--Sing to it!--
18. The well which the princes dug, which the nobles of the people delved, with the lawgiver and with their staves." And from the wilderness they went on to Mattanah:


Spring up, O well! :)
Honey from the Cela-Rolling-Rock, (Son)
And Shemen Oil from the flinty Tsur-Foundation-Rock, (Father).

Thanks
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
But that is what it has become.



We Agree



No question in my mind, Jesus was the Messiah



Many think they are the same. I don't



God is a spirit, his son is the exact image of him. A spirit. All images are created. So it is not unreasonable to see that God created a form of God when he gave this form his fullness.

God is the ONLY uncreated being.
Jesus is not a spirit. Jesus had a spirit. That is, if the word spirit means breath.

You might be saying Jesus only existed in the form of God after a certain time, which is false. You are also saying Jesus was created, but you have an idea of an image that was created. Who was created? We are all created by God. The subject may be the preexistence of Jesus. You say His existence was in another form.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
The express image of God is the invisible God made visible.....God.

Not even close Totton.

Much more to the Express Image.

1 It is a creation
2 God used it to create the Universe
3 It is a FORM of God for it has his fullness
4 It took the form of man.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Jesus is not a spirit. Jesus had a spirit. That is, if the word spirit means breath.

You might be saying Jesus only existed in the form of God after a certain time, which is false. You are also saying Jesus was created, but you have an idea of an image that was created. Who was created? We are all created by God. The subject may be the preexistence of Jesus. You say His existence was in another form.

I was not discussing Jesus, I was talking about the spiritual son, the express image, Christ who came down from heaven to dwell in Jesus.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
I was not discussing Jesus, I was talking about the spiritual son, the express image, Christ who came down from heaven to dwell in Jesus.
Then you are talking about fiction.

Do you believe the Son of God was ever not Jesus?

Do you believe Jesus was created or do you believe Jesus was not created?
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Then you are talking about fiction.

Do you believe the Son of God was ever not Jesus?

Yes. The son of God was with God when the world was built. Jesus is the body prepared for the true son that God sent.

Do you believe Jesus was created or do you believe Jesus was not created?

Every thing is created except God (the Father)

Jesus was a man, Christ was a spirit, both are creations.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Yes. The son of God was with God when the world was built. Jesus is the body prepared for the true son that God sent.



Every thing is created except God (the Father)

Jesus was a man, Christ was a spirit, both are creations.
The Son that God sent is Jesus.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Your ideas do not come from scripture. I evaluate (have evaluated) from my own paradigm. In the end I really seek the truth.

Wrong, I got them from scripture.
I do think I had help from the Master.

I also seek truth, and I believed some truths were given to me to share.
 
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