What is the express image of God?

[StanJ]

Stan

I am asking a simply question based on your statements. Why can't you simply answer it without getting a such a fleshly, childish attitude? And neatly evade actually dealing with the question which is the crux of the issue ....
Aner

This fake piousness won't fly here Aner...we already KNOW you.
When you start answering questions, I will reciprocate. I've been doing this a very long time and I KNOW people like you, or at least the spirit behind you.

How many profiles do you have on TOL?

 

[Aner]

This fake piousness won't fly here Aner...we already KNOW you.
When you start answering questions, I will reciprocate. I've been doing this a very long time and I KNOW people like you, or at least the spirit behind you.

How many profiles do you have on TOL?

re: Profiles
As far as I know, I only have this one but I may have one other because I don't like pseudonyms but simply started again with this one.

Stan

I started to write the below - then I realized that I have asked you such a simple and basic question - that you don't even have either the consideration or integrity to answer, then it really does not make sense for me to do the work. We have no fellowship in Christ - you are in your own little religious world and that is where you want to be and that is where you stay. The reality of course is that you know if you answer my question, the fatal flaw of your Christology will be exposed - your whole system will come crumbling down. I know that and you know that. That is why you run and hide. I know that and you know that.

My best wishes in your life,

Aner

Stan

I am willing to humble myself before you - as we are called to do - though I know that for you that is just "fake piety". Regardless, I will answer one specific question of yours - if you agree then to fully respond to my question above.

 

[keypurr]

He had to be fully man; otherwise, He could not represent you or me. [you are of the human race as am I, right? :chuckle:]



He had to be fully God; otherwise, He could not save you or me or anyone else for that matter.



And angels long to look into these things (1 Peter 1:12).

Why do you say he had to be fully God to be the Lamb of God?

The Lamb had to be human to know the feelings and trials of mankind. He had to be a sinless man. Without blemish. God can not die, Jesus died. If he did not die our faith is on vain.

 

[Bright Raven]

How could He be sinless?

Romans 3:23 New King James Version (NKJV)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

[Aner]

How could He be sinless?

Romans 3:23 New King James Version (NKJV)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Great question - please ICor15

27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.

28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

The disciples of Jesus are simply aware that Jesus is excepted as so many other texts state this. Otherwise God's Word is simply reduced to just a word game.

 

[Aner]

How could He be sinless?

Romans 3:23 New King James Version (NKJV)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Just curious - are you able to answer the following simple questions that will clarify the hypostatic union Christological model?

Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

You believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

 

[StanJ]

re: Profiles
As far as I know, I only have this one but I may have one other because I don't like pseudonyms but simply started again with this one.

So what username is the other profile under?

I started to write the below - then I realized that I have asked you such a simple and basic question - that you don't even have either the consideration or integrity to answer, then it really does not make sense for me to do the work. We have no fellowship in Christ - you are in your own little religious world and that is where you want to be and that is where you stay. The reality of course is that you know if you answer my question, the fatal flaw of your Christology will be exposed - your whole system will come crumbling down. I know that and you know that. That is why you run and hide. I know that and you know that.

How could we possibly have fellowship IN Christ when you are not? I reciprocate Aner, and as you stared with the avoidance and answering my posts with questions instead of answers or support for your pet dogmas, it does NOT matter how much you try to avoid it or obfuscate, I KNOW who you are. I don't expect you have the guts to expose yourself on a public forum like TOL.

I am willing to humble myself before you - as we are called to do - though I know that for you that is just "fake piety". Regardless, I will answer one specific question of yours - if you agree then to fully respond to my question above.

Like I said, answer my direct questions and I will reciprocate. Play games and I will ignore you.

 

[Bright Raven]

Just curious - are you able to answer the following simple questions that will clarify the hypostatic union Christological model?

Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

You believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

This is what I believe. (From CARM.org)


Hypostatic Union
This is the union of the two natures (Divine and human) in the person of Jesus. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8). He is fully God and fully man (Col. 2:9); thus, He has two natures: God and man. He is not half God and half man. He is 100% God and 100% man. He never lost His divinity. He continued to exist as God when He became a man and added human nature to Himself (Phil. 2:5-11). Therefore, there is a "union in one person of a full human nature and a full divine nature." Right now in Heaven there is a man, Jesus, who is our Mediator between us and God the Father (1 Tim. 2:5). (For related information on Jesus and His two natures, see Incarnation and the errors concerning His natures known as Eutychianism, Monophycitism, and Nestorianism).

Jesus as God Jesus as Man

He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33). He worshiped the Father (John 17).
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59). He prayed to the Father (John 17).
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15). He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).
He knows all things (John 21:17). He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
He gives eternal life (John 10:28). He died (Rom. 5:8).
All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9). He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

 

[StanJ]

Just curious - are you able to answer the following simple questions that will clarify the hypostatic union Christological model?
Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??
You believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

Seems I'm not the only one you avoid answering?

 

[StanJ]

Great question - please ICor15

27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.

28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

The disciples of Jesus are simply aware that Jesus is excepted as so many other texts state this. Otherwise God's Word is simply reduced to just a word game.

Yes it was, to bad you didn't have an answer for BR.

 

[Aner]

This is what I believe. (From CARM.org)


Hypostatic Union
This is the union of the two natures (Divine and human) in the person of Jesus. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8). He is fully God and fully man (Col. 2:9); thus, He has two natures: God and man. He is not half God and half man. He is 100% God and 100% man. He never lost His divinity. He continued to exist as God when He became a man and added human nature to Himself (Phil. 2:5-11). Therefore, there is a "union in one person of a full human nature and a full divine nature." Right now in Heaven there is a man, Jesus, who is our Mediator between us and God the Father (1 Tim. 2:5). (For related information on Jesus and His two natures, see Incarnation and the errors concerning His natures known as Eutychianism, Monophycitism, and Nestorianism).

Jesus as God Jesus as Man

He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33). He worshiped the Father (John 17).
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59). He prayed to the Father (John 17).
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15). He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).
He knows all things (John 21:17). He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
He gives eternal life (John 10:28). He died (Rom. 5:8).
All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9). He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

Thanks BR. I am quite familiar with old Matt Slick (he is slick as oil - more interested in debate strategy and winning than content and truth and fellowship (similar to some of the posters on this board that I have recently run into) - Matt essentially is CARM. Matt cannot follow the issue of the anhypostasis very well - God knows I tried to work with him on it. In the above you will see he plays games with words - he just throws them out willy nilly without regard to consistency or meaning. However, if you have a reasonably complete understanding of this subject it is pretty easy to see what he is really saying beneath the surface.

If you read this passage above, you will see what the anhypostasis issue is in the highlighted portion. Jesus isn't a man - He is God who has added an IMPERSONAL, functionless human nature. That is not a man. Of course Matt has to throw the term "man" in there since scripture uses that term - but his term "man" is not actually a man - just sounds good to say it and cover the fatal flaw in his Christology. If you follow up, you will see that Matt acknowledges a human nature for Jesus BUT he denies the human person of Christ - and only affirms the divine person - hence, "one person, in two natures". The flaw of course is that a man, at his most fundamental, is a human person....

Thus to clarify this issue, I asked the basic questions I did. Is there any way you can answer them on the basis of your own work? I provide them here for reference.

Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

You believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?


Best,

Aner

 

[lifeisgood]

Any way you can answer the specific questions I am asking??


Originally Posted by Aner
So let me get this straight - you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

You believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

He had to be fully man; otherwise, He could not represent you or me. [you are of the human race as am I, right? ]

He had to be fully God; otherwise, He could not save you or me or anyone else for that matter.

And angels long to look into these things (1 Peter 1:12).

 

[lifeisgood]

Why do you say he had to be fully God to be the Lamb of God?

The Lamb had to be human to know the feelings and trials of mankind. He had to be a sinless man. Without blemish. God can not die, Jesus died. If he did not die our faith is on vain.

YOU cannot die either, keypurr.

 

[keypurr]

YOU cannot die either, keypurr.

I am. So are you.

 

[keypurr]

This is what I believe. (From CARM.org)


Hypostatic Union
This is the union of the two natures (Divine and human) in the person of Jesus. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8). He is fully God and fully man (Col. 2:9); thus, He has two natures: God and man. He is not half God and half man. He is 100% God and 100% man. He never lost His divinity. He continued to exist as God when He became a man and added human nature to Himself (Phil. 2:5-11). Therefore, there is a "union in one person of a full human nature and a full divine nature." Right now in Heaven there is a man, Jesus, who is our Mediator between us and God the Father (1 Tim. 2:5). (For related information on Jesus and His two natures, see Incarnation and the errors concerning His natures known as Eutychianism, Monophycitism, and Nestorianism).

Jesus as God Jesus as Man

He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33). He worshiped the Father (John 17).
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59). He prayed to the Father (John 17).
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15). He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).
He knows all things (John 21:17). He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
He gives eternal life (John 10:28). He died (Rom. 5:8).
All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9). He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Notice it speaks of what was IN Christ Jesus, not Jesus.

What was IN Jesus is a form of God.

You misunderstand the other verses you posted too/

 

[Aner]

He had to be fully man; otherwise, He could not represent you or me. [you are of the human race as am I, right? ]

He had to be fully God; otherwise, He could not save you or me or anyone else for that matter.

And angels long to look into these things (1 Peter 1:12).

Life -

Is there any way you can answer the specific questions I am asking??

Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

 

[keypurr]

Life -

Is there any way you can answer the specific questions I am asking??

Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

Maybe you can make the question easier for them, for they might not understand them.

I see Jesus as a man who God who was anointed with the power of the true spiritual son of God. Heb 1:3 tells us of this express image (spirit) son as God's first creation. All images are creations. This spirit son is the firstborn of all creatures, Col 1:15.

 

[Bright Raven]

Maybe you can make the question easier for them, for they might not understand them.

I see Jesus as a man who God who was anointed with the power of the true spiritual son of God. Heb 1:3 tells us of this express image (spirit) son as God's first creation. All images are creations. This spirit son is the firstborn of all creatures, Col 1:15.

Nice try but wrong. He is uncreated and was with the Father when the world began.

John 17:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

 

[lifeisgood]

Life -

Is there any way you can answer the specific questions I am asking??

Do you believe that the Jesus conceived was a created human person - human center of consciousness - just like you and I??

Do you believe this Jesus that was conceived could fully independently function independent of any incarnated deity just like you and I?

I have responded.
You do not accept the answer.
You will receive the same answer all the time from me.

 

[Aner]

Nice try but wrong. He is uncreated and was with the Father when the world began.

John 17:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

BR - You keep me baffled. In another post you state that Jesus is a man (as do the scriptures). Men are created at conception. Here you state that Jesus is uncreated and personally existed prior to the conception in Mary. Obviously that Jesus is not a man - and not taught in scripture.

I don't get it...

BTW - as to your use of Jn17:4,5 - you are mis-understanding the sense of the text. I suggest reading it in the context of v3 and Rev13:8, Eph1:4, IPet1:20, the whole Jewish conception of notional "pre-existence"etc.