What is the basis for the belief that abortion is murder?
- Thread starter john2001
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It's been seven days, firechyld. Where's that verse?
erethnereh
New member
I know the verse that firechyld wanted to find. It exist in the Torah. What it amounts to is that if two men get into a fight and the pregnant women's baby is inadvertently killed(I'm reading manslaughter here) then the pregnant women's husband may demand anything from the.
Since Christians live by the New Testament, the old law really does not hold too much respute.
Since Christians live by the New Testament, the old law really does not hold too much respute.
C
cattyfan
Guest
john2001 is starting this discussion from the perspective he doesn't believe in God in the first place:
he goes on to make derisive comments about souls:
given, then, that he has no affinity for anything sacred, it does no good to try to hold a theological discussion with this intellectual lightweight. He is unable to comprehend anything he cannot see or hold...as that is the basis for faith, it is no wonder he has none.
But to pretend that what is carried within the mother is anything but human is ridiculous. Look at the fetal ultrasounds...what grows within the womb has a heartbeat, brainwaves, and the tiny form of a person within weeks...not months. When then exactly do you think it's a person?
Now take a look at my nephew. Born when my sister was just shy of 6 months pregnant, he was 2 pounds. He is quite obviously a person. (today he's a teenager.) Would he not have been a person for three months then had he stayed in her womb?
I am sorry you are so empty of faith, and in so, are empty of real sustaining life. Perhaps it is you, soul-less and empty, who is not human.
he goes on to make derisive comments about souls:
given, then, that he has no affinity for anything sacred, it does no good to try to hold a theological discussion with this intellectual lightweight. He is unable to comprehend anything he cannot see or hold...as that is the basis for faith, it is no wonder he has none.
But to pretend that what is carried within the mother is anything but human is ridiculous. Look at the fetal ultrasounds...what grows within the womb has a heartbeat, brainwaves, and the tiny form of a person within weeks...not months. When then exactly do you think it's a person?
Now take a look at my nephew. Born when my sister was just shy of 6 months pregnant, he was 2 pounds. He is quite obviously a person. (today he's a teenager.) Would he not have been a person for three months then had he stayed in her womb?
I am sorry you are so empty of faith, and in so, are empty of real sustaining life. Perhaps it is you, soul-less and empty, who is not human.
C
cattyfan
Guest
we frequently hear a phrase tossed about when liberals discuss things like gay marriage: "Just because it's the law doesn't make it right...slavery used to be legal, too." Well...let's apply that phrase to this discussion: just because getting an abortion is currently legal doesn't make it any less wrong or any less a murder.
Go catty! Go catty! :bannana:
firechyld-
It's now been 12 days.
firechyld-
It's now been 12 days.
Ecumenicist
New member
Life for life if the mother dies. If the child is not born alive,
its just a monetary compensation. The life of the mother
is more valuable in the eyes of God than the life of the
unborn child. The "injury" in question applies to the woman,
not the child.
Exodus 21
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [1 (note: also translated as miscarries)] but
there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
Gen 38:
8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.
The issue here is not the spilling of the seed, its denying the
brother's wife, and the dead brother, continuation of the family. This was important to the woman because without male children
to support them, women were doomed to destitution, as they
were considered property, and could not own land or make a
living.
Hence, prostitution was the only sanctioned income producing
profession a woman could take outside of marriage.
djm
Ecumenicist
New member
I'm fine with that being your personal conviction, but that's not
what scripture says. The life of an unborn child is not given
equal value of that of the mother. If the mother is killed
or injured during a fight, its life for life, limb for limb. If the mother
miscarries, money or property is exchanged as payment.
Here's another example, from scripture, at least a metaphorical
parallel:
Dtr 22:6
If you come across a bird's nest beside the road, either in a tree or on the ground, and the mother is sitting on the young or on the eggs, do not take the mother with the young.
The life of the mother is sacred, moreso than the life of the
eggs or young.
djm
Ecumenicist
New member
As I said, it can be considered a metaphorical example which
supports the idea.
Where else is it said that long life is assured through obedience?
The commandment to honor father and mother. The idea of
honoring the mother bird holds a similar promise, thanx
for bringing it up.
Dave
supports the idea.
Where else is it said that long life is assured through obedience?
The commandment to honor father and mother. The idea of
honoring the mother bird holds a similar promise, thanx
for bringing it up.
Dave
Nineveh
Merely Christian
What version?
NIV: gives birth prematurely *
NASB: she gives birth prematurely
KJV: so that her fruit depart from her
NKJV: so that she gives birth prematurely
It seems only NIV denotes an alternative interpretation of the words.
Ya know, even though you are absolutley correct about this, I was hoping firechyld would try to gain some wisdom in the matter
...but after such a glimmer of brilliance:
I still hold out hope for ya, dave...
Ecumenicist
New member
"I still hold out hope for ya, dave... "
And I for you, Ninevah...
djm
And I for you, Ninevah...
djm
Ecumenicist
New member
Since we're lacking a direct "Thou Shalt Not have abortions"
commandment, we need to explore everything we can to
understand how ancient Hebrew Theology would have been
applied.
Knowing what I do about scripture, I would summize that
abortion might have been accepted in cases where the
mother's life was at stake, i.e. choosing between the life of
the mother and the life of the child.
djm
commandment, we need to explore everything we can to
understand how ancient Hebrew Theology would have been
applied.
Knowing what I do about scripture, I would summize that
abortion might have been accepted in cases where the
mother's life was at stake, i.e. choosing between the life of
the mother and the life of the child.
djm
Aimiel
Well-known member
I'm fine with your opinion, though, perhaps I take parts of my Bible more seriously than you do:
"Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man."
That infant is not tissue, whether you believe it is or not, it is a human being, and the life of the murderer of unborn infants should be forfeit for the aborted baby's death.
dave-
I've agreed with you on may subjects, but you've lost it! :kookoo:
I've agreed with you on may subjects, but you've lost it! :kookoo:
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