What does God's Holy Law Demand?

[God's Truth]

Which makes the new law a different law than the old law. We have to keep up. Things change.

The old law is still useful for teaching, training, and rebuking. It is still USEFUL.

There is a new law, and it what Jesus taught when he walked the earth, and it is what all the apostles taught, including Paul.

 

[God's Truth]

GT does not have the truth.

There are no new laws. Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and the law. Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

Jesus fulfilled the old law and gave us the new law, the new covenant.

Paul says he is NOT WITHOUT the law of God.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.


Lol...Pate, what do you think God's law is?

 

[God's Truth]

Agreed, much confusion, and I'm not saying I've sorted it all.
But I have come to the conclusion that Jesus didn't abolish the law, not one iota of it.
If that were true, and love was all that mattered, we can all do what we want on the basis that it's loving.
But love must have a framework, and it's the law of God which gives this framework.
I know that adultery etc is unloving because the law tells me so.
Jesus fulfilled these things, but he didn't abolish them.
Certainly Jesus in his life fulfilled all aspects of the law, but that doesn't mean he abolished them.
But the reason why ceremonial aspects of the law aren't relevant to me isn't because Jesus abolished them, but because I am a gentile.

You are so close.

However, there are some things that I want to help you with.

I am so patient. I will walk you through this, repeat myself, and keep on, as long as you are willing. I do not want you to be confused. I am an enemy of Satan.

Jesus came and fulfilled the old law, and thus it changed.

We have a new law, it is the old law with some changes.

The old law was abolished, but not in the way many in falseness here claim.

The old law was abolished but is fulfilled in Christ, if you do everything that Jesus says.

Don't make it harder than it has to be.

The Old Testament is about what is earthly.

The New Testament is about what is spiritual.

The Old Testament is PROPHECIES about what was coming.

Jesus Christ came, and prophecies are revealed.

How are they revealed?

By obeying Jesus.

That is what the Word of God says.

If you do not recognize the scriptures just ask and I will show you exactly where they are in which I speak.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me." Since Jesus is the head of the church, I do as he suggested.

All the Sabbaths and feast days were about Jesus.

Since Jesus came, we no longer observe special days, we observe Jesus all day every day.

 

[God's Truth]

What you mean is "according to Christians, the Jews were supposed to give up the law and live by grace..." Being as we are not adherents of the Christian faith, we don't care much about what you think we ought to do.

You have no temple. You have no blood offering. You have no access to God, until you turn to Jesus.

Do not judge God's Truth by what you hear others say.

Get the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament and obey them, and then you will have the truth revealed to you.

See John 14:21, and John 7:14.

 

[JonahofAkron]

GT does not have the truth.

There are no new laws. Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and the law. Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

No. He abolished the enmity. Not the Law. It's clear in Matthew 5:17. Come on, man. Get it together.

Sent from my SM-N910T using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus fulfilled the old law and gave us the new law, the new covenant.

Paul says he is NOT WITHOUT the law of God.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.


Lol...Pate, what do you think God's law is?

Doesn't say that at all.

This is difficult scripture to understand.

To them that are without law, as without law (Gentiles) being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ, that I might gain them that are without law (Gentiles) 1 Corinthians 9:21.

This was about Paul becoming all things to all men that he might win some, 1 Corinthians 9:22.

To be under the law is to be under judgment. This is why Jesus removed us from all laws and rules. Colossians 2:15.

You are under the law and you will be judged by the law and condemned.

 

[God's Truth]

Doesn't say that at all.

This is difficult scripture to understand.

To them that are without law, as without law (Gentiles) being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ, that I might gain them that are without law (Gentiles) 1 Corinthians 9:21.

This was about Paul becoming all things to all men that he might win some, 1 Corinthians 9:22.

To be under the law is to be under judgment. This is why Jesus removed us from all laws and rules. Colossians 2:15.

You are under the law and you will be judged by the law and condemned.

You switched it all up and changed what is written.

 

[jamie]

If the law ended before Jesus began his ministry, how does this square this with the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said that he had not come to abolish the law?

The Father sent Jesus to offer the kingdom to Israel. The offer is still valid.

Jesus did not have the authority to abolish his Father's law. Jesus taught and spoke what the Father wanted him to speak. There was no harm in Jews keeping God's law, the problem is that they corrupted it and did not abide by Jesus' corrections. Jesus knew the intent of the law.

 

[NicodemusR]

No, Jews ought not to give up the law.
There is much grace in the law/Torah.
How else were the Hebrew people delivered from Egypt except by shear grace?
Sinai was God's grace.

RP above - Ephesians 2:15 is certainly a difficult verse, but I believe a better rendering is,
"in His flesh He has caused to cease the enmity due to the (man made) laws in regulations, that He might in Himself create the two into one new man, making peace."

The laws of God don't produce enmity, why should they? But sin and the traditions of men do. In Christ even Jew and Gentile can be one.

 

[jamie]

In a nutshell I don't believe that "under the law" means "subject to the law" but I think it means "under the condemnation of the law" since this makes most sense of the context. But happy to discuss.

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (Romans 3:19)​

 

[NicodemusR]

If you look at the Greek in that verse you will see it says,

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are in the law ..." (not "under the law")

That is, if even the Jews were unable to keep the law, and so proved to be sinners, then so the whole world.

 

[God's Truth]

If you look at the Greek in that verse you will see it says,

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are in the law ..." (not "under the law")

That is, if even the Jews were unable to keep the law, and so proved to be sinners, then so the whole world.

Are you Jacob with another member name?

You are arguing about words that do not matter. You are arguing about the word 'in'.

 

[God's Truth]

The Father sent Jesus to offer the kingdom to Israel. The offer is still valid.

Jesus did not have the authority to abolish his Father's law.

Why do you speak like that?

Do you know what rude and presumptuous means?

Jesus taught and spoke what the Father wanted him to speak. There was no harm in Jews keeping God's law, the problem is that they corrupted it and did not abide by Jesus' corrections. Jesus knew the intent of the law.

Jesus fulfilled the law and that WAS INSULTING TO THE FAITHLESS PEOPLE.

 

[jamie]

Do you know what rude and presumptuous means?

Yes, I think I do. You have set a fine example of both.

 

[NicodemusR]

I'm not trying to pick at straws, but I think in this case the word does matter especially because (I'd say)of the common misunderstanding of the meaning of "under the law".

Here in the Greek it doesn't say "under the law" (as in Romans 6:14) but "in the law." By doing so I believe Paul is just referring to Jewish people of his time, to show ... and again this doesn't come out particularly well in the English ... that the whole world is under (hypo) judgment.

Just as a disclaimer, I'm far from an expert in Greek, but have a friend who is, and we looked at this verse in detail. And, no, I'm not Jacob.

 

[God's Truth]

No, Jews ought not to give up the law.
There is much grace in the law/Torah.
How else were the Hebrew people delivered from Egypt except by shear grace?
Sinai was God's grace.

RP above - Ephesians 2:15 is certainly a difficult verse, but I believe a better rendering is,
"in His flesh He has caused to cease the enmity due to the (man made) laws in regulations, that He might in Himself create the two into one new man, making peace."

The laws of God don't produce enmity, why should they? But sin and the traditions of men do. In Christ even Jew and Gentile can be one.

What happened to the people who were delivered from Egypt? Please tell us, because I would love to if you cannot.

 

[Robert Pate]

If the law has not been fulfilled and abolished we are all in serious trouble.

Simply because no one can live up to what the law demands, which is perfection.

This is why Paul said to the Galatians "Tell me that you desire to be under the law> Do you not hear the law?" The law demands that you be not like Christ, but Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, I think I do. You have set a fine example of both.

Your defense using accusations does not interest me.

 

[Robert Pate]

What happened to the people who were delivered from Egypt? Please tell us, because I would love to if you cannot.

Almost all of them died in the desert.