What and who did Paul preach?

[JudgeRightly]

I disagree on a lot of things with @Tambora, but she is right on with this.

So then maybe you can...

Show where they believed something wrongly and show where they were corrected (particularly Paul).

Otherwise you're just full of hot air.

... Just as full of hot air as she is.

 

[Gary K]

So then maybe you can...



... Just as full of hot air as she is.

Sometimes, like now, I get the feeling you don't like anyone who disagrees with you. All the name calling gives you away.

 

[Right Divider]

I disagree on a lot of things with @Tambora, but she is right on with this.

That's wonderful news!! It's all settled folks, now that we know that Gary K agrees with Tambora!!

How about you prove it? Your opinions prove absolutely nothing!

Make a case; give some arguments!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Sometimes, like now, I get the feeling you don't like anyone who disagrees with you. All the name calling gives you away.

How about addressing what was said, instead of responding with how much your feelings got hurt...

Can you support the claim Tambora made? Or are you just going to continue to waste server bandwidth and people's time?

 

[Right Divider]

Can you support the claim Tambora made? Or are you just going to continue to waste server bandwidth and people's time?

Can I take a guess at his answers to those questions?

No and yes.

 

[Gary K]

That's wonderful news!! It's all settled folks, now that we know that Gary K agrees with Tambora!!

How about you prove it? Your opinions prove absolutely nothing!

Make a case; give some arguments!

I can't "prove " anything to you anymore than you can "prove" anything to me. Scripture is accepted by faith.

Hebrews 11:
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The existence of God cannot be proven. His existence is accepted by faith. Intellectual arguments do no good, They will never "prove" He exists or convert anyone. Only the HS can move the human heart.

The same with arguments over theology. As they are accepted by faith logical are useless."proofs". Some of the smartest people in this world are atheists. So if intellectual arguments don't convert them how do expect to "prove" your beliefs to me? You should have realized vy now I reject your beliefs as you reject mine.

I was just supporting Tambora as she was being bullied and I don't care much for bullies.

 

[Right Divider]

I can't "prove " anything to you anymore than you can "prove" anything to me. Scripture is accepted by faith.

So in other words, you are not going to try to support the claim that you said was true.

I was just supporting Tambora as she was being bullied and I don't care much for bullies.

There was no "bullying" going on.

Tambora made a CLAIM that she then refused to SUPPORT. Just like you are now doing.

So stop dodging and support the claim or you're just another poser with an opinion.

 

[Gary K]

So in other words, you are not going to try to support the claim that you said was true.

There was no "bullying" going on.

Tambora made a CLAIM that she then refused to SUPPORT. Just like you are now doing.

So stop dodging and support the claim or you're just another poser with an opinion.

It sounds to me like you are denying the work of the HS on the human heart. If that's true you are getting close to committing the unpardonable sin.

Luke 12: 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I can't "prove " anything to you

Because you refuse to even try, coward.

anymore than you can "prove" anything to me.

Because you refuse to even consider your opponent's arguments.

Scripture is accepted by faith.

Indeed. But that doesn't mean we do so blindly...

Hebrews 11:
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

This verse has nothing to do with this topic.

These verses are what you are probably looking for... oh wait, they support my position and not yours... HA!

“Come now, and let us reason together,”Says the Lord,“Though your sins are like scarlet,They shall be as white as snow;Though they are red like crimson,They shall be as wool.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 1:18 - New King James Version

“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool.

www.biblegateway.com

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 11:1 - New King James Version

By Faith We Understand - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

www.biblegateway.com

God is rational, so should you be.

Faith is evidence, and my faith is based on evidence. Yours seems to be based on nothing more than wishy-washy feelings, whatever feels right...

The existence of God cannot be proven.

False. For:

The heavens declare the glory of God;And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech,And night unto night reveals knowledge. There is no speech nor languageWhere their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth,And their words to the end of the world.In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun,

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 19:1-4 - New King James Version

The Perfect Revelation of the Lord - To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge. There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard. Their...

www.biblegateway.com

And:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 1:18-20 - New King James Version

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His...

www.biblegateway.com

All of these things are evidence for the creator.

His existence is accepted by faith.

Blind faith is not faith at all.

Real faith is evidence based.

Intellectual arguments do no good,

Through what intellectual argument did you arrive at that conclusion?

Seriously, do you not even stop for five seconds to consider whether what you're saying is self-refuting?

They will never "prove" He exists or convert anyone.

Not with that attitude.

Only the HS can move the human heart.

The Holy Spirit uses means.

Rational arguments are an example of such means.

The same with arguments over theology. As they are accepted by faith logical are useless."proofs".

There is nothing "useless" about proofs.

Some of the smartest people in this world are atheists.

God won't be judging people on Judgement day based on how smart they were, but on whether they placed their trust in Him or not.

So if intellectual arguments don't convert them

All I can hope to do is let the Lord work through me using logic and reason, so that maybe a seed is planted in his heart.

how do expect to "prove" your beliefs to me?

I don't.

All I expect is that through rational discourse, a seed gets planted, that you might recognize that your beliefs are not correct, and be humble enough to admit such, and seek the truth.

You should have realized vy now I reject your beliefs as you reject mine.

How many times are you going to keep repeating this, and how many times am I going to have to repeat my response that we don't care that you disagree, what we care about is that you DEFEND your beliefs.

I was just supporting Tambora

Mindlessly affirming what someone says without being able to defend it yourself isn't very supportive.

It's just lip service.

as she was being bullied

No, she wasn't.

She was being called out for being an irrational hypocrite who can't defend her beliefs.

Just like you are.

and I don't care much for bullies.

No one cares.

 

[Right Divider]

It sounds to me like you are denying the work of the HS on the human heart.

You're so off-base it's crazy. You're the most illogical and irrational poster here to TOL.

If that's true you are getting close to committing the unpardonable sin.

I'm part of the body of Christ. I have no fear of any accusation that you care to make.
I trust in Christ's death for my sins, His burial and His resurrection for my justification.
So you can stop with your petty threats against me.

Luke 12: 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

You're off on another planet GK.

If you'd ever like to support the claim that was made by Tambora and agree to by you, go for it. Otherwise, you can go off some more of these illogical and irrelevant rabbit trails of yours.

Here, again, is the claim that needs some support:

Paul was very educated on what the scriptures said.
But just like Jesus' disciples had been guilty of, Paul's expectation of the fulfilment (the actual meaning) of those scriptures were skewed until Christ opened their eyes; which often turned out to be something completely different (and even contradicted) what they had previously thought the actual meaning of those scriptures were really all about.

 

[Gary K]

You're so off-base it's crazy. You're the most illogical and irrational poster here to TOL.

I'm part of the body of Christ. I have no fear of any accusation that you care to make.
I trust in Christ's death for my sins, His burial and His resurrection for my justification.
So you can stop with your petty threats against me.

You're off on another planet GK.

If you'd ever like to support the claim that was made by Tambora and agree to by you, go for it. Otherwise, you can go off some more of these illogical and irrelevant rabbit trails of yours.

Here, again, is the claim that needs some support:

This post of yours is a great example of why I completely reject dispensationalism and always will. You can commit the unpardonable sin and excuse yourself because you think the scripture doesn't apply to you. It's the most dangerous belief system I've ever seen.

Catholicism isn't this dangerous. Catholics have a better chance of being saved.

I tell you these things not because I dislike you but because I care for you and myself.

Ezekiel 3: 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

The above doesn't apply just to me but to all Christians.

 

[JudgeRightly]

This post of yours is a great example of why I completely reject dispensationalism and always will.

I doubt it.

More like you've been confronted with the truth, but are too stubborn to admit when you're wrong, and have decided that you will cling to your false beliefs no matter what anyone says.

You can commit the unpardonable sin and excuse yourself because you think the scripture doesn't apply to you.

Bearing false witness is a sin, Gary. Don't do that.

It's the most dangerous belief system I've ever seen.

Catholicism isn't this dangerous. Catholics have a better chance of being saved.

Catholics have their own problems.

I tell you these things not because I dislike you but because I care for you and myself.

Good intentions pave the road to hell.

Try learning and teaching what is ACTUALLY true, instead.

Ezekiel 3: 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

The above doesn't apply just to me but to all Christians.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

 

[Right Divider]

This post of yours is a great example of why I completely reject dispensationalism and always will.

You don't even know what dispensationalism is.

You can commit the unpardonable sin and excuse yourself because you think the scripture doesn't apply to you. It's the most dangerous belief system I've ever seen.

I'm saved Gary K. You should get saved too. Then you'd know the truth about the scripture that you claim to believe but do not even understand.

Catholicism isn't this dangerous. Catholics have a better chance of being saved.

Again, since you have no idea that dispensationalism is or what it teaches, you are in no place to compare anything.

I tell you these things not because I dislike you but because I care for you and myself.

Same to you Gary K. I want you to get saved and know the truth. But you fight against the truth tooth and nail.

Ezekiel 3: 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

The above doesn't apply just to me but to all Christians.

The above is being taken OUT OF CONTEXT by YOU, which is all to common of those that claim that they are Christian.

BACK TO THE TOPIC OF THIS ARGUMENT.

Tambora made a claim that YOU agreed with, but NEITHER of you will make any attempt to SUPPORT it whatsoever. Is it hard for you to understand that you are BOTH simply full of HOT AIR?

There is a reason why BOTH of you are failed to even to try to support this claim. It CANNOT be done. The claim is blatantly and completely FALSE!

P.S. If you want to get saved, just ask and we'll tell you how.

P.P.S. Stop lying about my beliefs.

 

[Right Divider]

The only context in which I mentioned contradiction was in the context of what the disciples and Paul had previously thought was the actual meaning of scripture until Christ opened their understanding.
It's right there in my post for all to read.

@Gary K Go ahead and support this claim.

 

[Gary K]

@Gary K Go ahead and support this claim.

John 16: 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

As the trinity is one God in three persons the Holy Spirit telling them is no different than Jesus telling them.

 

[Right Divider]

John 16: 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So you think that more OUT OF CONTEXT scriptures will be convincing?

As the trinity is one God in three persons the Holy Spirit telling them is no different than Jesus telling them.

Again, this has nothing to do with the question at hand.

You need to SHOW where PAUL misunderstood scripture and was CORRECTED by the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm particularly interested in the ones that Tambora mentioned where the correction was CONTRADICTORY to Paul's understanding.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? It's really a simple concept.

Try rereading the quote from Tambora in post #74 until you actually understand the issue.

 

[Gary K]

So you think that more OUT OF CONTEXT scriptures will be convincing?

Again, this has nothing to do with the question at hand.

You need to SHOW where PAUL misunderstood scripture and was CORRECTED by the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm particularly interested in the ones that Tambora mentioned where the correction was CONTRADICTORY to Paul's understanding.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? It's really a simple concept.

Try rereading the quote from Tambora in post #74 until you actually understand the issue.

Simple. Paul was a Pharisee. They never admitted to misunderstanding of the prophecies concerning Jesus and murdered Him on the cross. He held the coats while the rest stoned Stephen. When Jesus met Paul in the road to Damascus Paul was miraculously converted. Even though this is all scriptural I doubt very much whether you will listen to me. You'll deny it out of prejudice towards me. You might accept it but it is highly unlikely.

I'm praying for you and have been for months. You're on my prayer list and I'm asking my heavenly Father to change your heart.

 

[Right Divider]

Simple. Paul was a Pharisee. They never admitted to misunderstanding of the prophecies concerning Jesus and murdered Him on the cross. He held the coats while the rest stoned Stephen. When Jesus met Paul in the road to Damascus Paul was miraculously converted. Even though this is all scriptural I doubt very much whether you will listen to me. You'll deny it out of prejudice towards me. You might accept it but it is highly unlikely.

Again, we need a specific SCRIPTURE that Paul used during his ministry that he misunderstood. Then... we need the Lord Jesus Christ's correction.

I fully understand that Paul was in opposition to Christ and was changed on the road to Damascus. But we are talking about SPECIFIC SCRIPTURE here and not just about vague generalities here.

I'm praying for you and have been for months. You're on my prayer list and I'm asking my heavenly Father to change your heart.

You're lost Gary K. You need to get saved first, then there is a chance that the Holy Spirit can help you understand the Word of God.

 

[Lon]

I have yet to see where it says that we are grafted into the body of Christ .

1 Cor 12:14 - 17 that the b o c has many members .

the b o c are Christ , eyes , are his feet , his hands , his ears , his sense of hearing , and sense of smell

I say we are Christ as we a new creation and are // este in Christ

dan p

Could a few of you weigh in on this please: Romans 11: 11-31 Verse 17 specifically. I'm trying to grasp what the dispensationalist means.

I have to disagree with this "grafting in the body of Christ".

The body of Christ is a new creation and is not grafted into anything.

If you are referring to Romans 11, that particular passage is not about this dispensation, but the previous one.

https://graceambassadors.com/books/romans-46

How were believers grafted in at the time, and how specifically, to / in Israel? I'm not quite there grasping the Mid Acts point and difference.

 

[Right Divider]

Could a few of you weigh in on this please: Romans 11: 11-31 Verse 17 specifically. I'm trying to grasp what the dispensationalist means.

Paul's point with this passage is that Israel is fallen... but not permanently.

As Paul says, by their (Israel's) fall salvation has come to the gentiles (this salvation is the gospel of the grace of God, i.e., the current dispensation, ie., saved by grace through faith without works).

Rom 11:12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:12) Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?​

Their (Israel's) fullness will be their restoration and the establishment of their kingdom.

Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?​

Again, the "receiving of them" is "life from the dead", i.e., the restoration of Israel and the establishment of their kingdom on the earth. (And, no, life from the dead there is not talking about resurrection).

Rom 11:25 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. ​

​

Again, blindness to Israel UNTIL... at the catching away of the body of Christ, Israel will once again be the focus of God's attention on the earth.