ECT WHAT ACTS 2:28 REALLY MEANS !!

[God's Truth]

The gospel of Christ is that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). All of our sins were in the future when He did so, so he died for ALL of them/every single one of them whether one believes that or not! Do try and think!

Jesus died for the sins for the whole world, for everyone.

What does that mean?

That means that we no longer have to make ourselves clean by doing the ceremonial works, just so we can go to a temple where God's Spirit was. It means Jesus' blood washes us clean just by believing it does. We have access to that grace by having faith that the sins we committed and repented of are washed clean. See Romans 5:2.

It means we are washed clean and become the temple of the Living God. We are then reconciled to God.

It does not mean we do not have to repent of our sins, for what are you being washed of if not repented sins? Do you think you are washed of sins that you are still dirty from doing?

You need to think.

GT does not believe that Christ died for all of her sins. She is not saved.

You are not speaking the truth about me.

 

[heir]

Jesus died for the sins for the whole world, for everyone.

What does that mean?

That means you should trust what Christ did and be saved!

 

[heir]

You are not speaking the truth about me.

You believe he only died for the sins you "confess and repent of". That is not true.

Colossians 2:11-13 KJV

 

[God's Truth]

That means you should trust what Christ did and be saved!

Christ died for the sins we repent of doing.

 

[God's Truth]

You believe he only died for the sins you "confess and repent of". That is not true.

Colossians 2:11-13 KJV

We do NOT have access to that grace unless we have faith.


Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

 

[kayaker]

I appreciate the humor and it takes a lot to offend me. I’ve been called names and told I was evil and so on but it doesn’t bother me.

Then we are kindred Spirits, indeed! My biological brother has made slanderous remarks about my ancestry, ROFLOL!

Yes, what JTB did was ceremonial but after Jesus became our savior, baptism took on a whole new purpose.

Agreed that baptism, per se, did take on a whole new meaning being as JTB stated, and he wasn't talking about water baptism.

If it is only ceremonial, then the bible would say so or we would have to gather from it use that is all there is to water baptism. I believe the bible tells us much about water baptism. For example, here Peter is telling us that water baptism saves us, what it does and he uses an OT example to show water saves.

1 Pt. 3:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you -not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

He is clearly talking about water baptism in saying the 8 were brought safely through water and baptism is not a bath but an appeal.

Excellent reference, btw! Jesus also referred to said times in Matthew 24:35 KJV, Matthew 24:36 KJV, Matthew 24:37 KJV, Matthew 24:38 KJV. Jesus made no mention of being baptized in those verses. Had water baptism been a prerequisite to salvation (flesh, that is, at least), I suspect Jesus would have said so. Those eight souls were saved by water from being in the ark. Then, I see no direct reference water baptism spiritually saves anyone, the ark did, and Jesus is our ark through His resurrection. Many proponents of water baptismal spiritual regeneration suggest one utterly must be "born of water", referring to Nicodemus, in order to be "born again." May I please refer you to a few verses earlier in 1 Peter:

1Peter 1:22, 23, KJV: "22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."​

So, I conclude water baptism does not convey being "born again." We are "born again" 'receiving' the Holy Ghost unveiling the truth not abundantly obvious in Scripture (John 14:26 KJV). And, I'm only aware of Paul getting the 20-gig download, all fell swoop.

Also, we have in Acts 19 where Paul baptized people again who were baptized previously. They received John’s baptism but that doesn’t have Jesus blood behind it, they needed to be baptized into Jesus’ name.

Acts 19:2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

There are two baptisms being referred to here. We agree with JTB's water baptism of repentance. Here, JTB explains both baptisms:

Mark 1:6, 7, 8, KJV "6) And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; 7) And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost."​

Baptism of repentance is a water baptism. Baptism 'with' the Holy Ghost is a Spiritual event. I do not hear JTB saying Jesus will baptize you with the water baptism of repentance, or of water conveying of the Holy Ghost. Receipt of the Holy Ghost is a Spiritual event, and I find no direct relationship between water and the Spirit as baptismal spiritual regeneration advocates extrapolate from Jesus' encounter with ole Nicky. Take a listen now to John 14:16 KJV, John 14:17 KJV, John 14:26 KJV. No water there. And, John 14:26 KJV are Jesus' words I suggest Peter was talking about in 1Peter 1:23 KJV being "born again... by the word of God." Via the Holy Spirit of truth (John 14:26 KJV), our minds and hearts are impacted opening our depth perception (for the lack of a better word) of the Word of God (feed my sheep was OT knowledge).

I would suggest to you being baptized (water) into Jesus’ name is how we are added to Christ. If you will notice all conversions, that have any detail, end with the convert being baptized.

I appreciate your suggestion, T6. Then, what's in Jesus 'name' besides five letters? Jesus' arrival generation was prophesied all the way back in Genesis 4:24 KJV. "Seventy and sevenfold"... Begin in Luke 3:38 KJV counting from God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3, and so forth. Whose name shows up as the 77th generation from God, inclusively? The Jews suggest "seventy and sevenfold" spoken by Lamech, a descendant of Cain (Genesis 4:16, 17, 18), is merely an "undesignated coincidence." How do you reconcile Jesus being a descendant of Pharez, son of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar? Pharez was both born and conceived out of wedlock in a relationship contrary to Leviticus 18:15 KJV, Leviticus 20:12 KJV, Leviticus 21:7 KJV, Leviticus 21:9 KJV, Leviticus 21:13 KJV, Leviticus 21:14 KJV? The Jewish Talmud teaches Judah married Tamar in an effort to whitewash King David, also a descendant of Judah and Tamar via Pharez. But, they can't throw a little whitewash on Jesus?

See, T6... being baptized in the 'name' of Jesus is about authenticating His ancestry, His 'name', and water has no purpose in those debates. Are we simply going to tell a Jew he needs to be dunked, sprinkled, splashed, or IV infused with consecrated Catholic holy water to utterly and irrefutably know Jesus is Messiah? Well, many Jews are quite astute in the OT, unlike most Christians. Then, please explain how water is supposed to impart the irrefutable OT Scriptural truth Jesus is Messiah? We are "born again... by the word of God" (1Peter 1:23 KJV), OT included! And, the Holy Spirit plays an integral role unveiling His Word (John 14:16 KJV).

So, how about it, T6? How does water baptism open up Scripture unveiling the irrefutable and utter truth in Jesus' 'name' His ancestry? I suggest many folk are water baptized, and will get shot out of the pulpit with it comes down to authenticating Jesus 'name', His ancestry, all 77 unadulterated generations, thereof.

kayaker

 

[kayaker]

This is what JESUS says.

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Don’t you think it matters what is in your heart?

As long as I keep my clothes on... does that count for anything? If not, then go for it, right? I'm already convicted, might as well embrace the opportunity, right?

The thief on the cross obeyed Jesus’ commands to be saved.
He feared God; he was sorry for his sins and repented of them. He confessed Jesus in front of others. He called on Jesus to remember him.

Got any Scripture the dude asked forgiveness, then?

You have no life if you do not obey Jesus.

Then I suppose you're the only one on TOL that has a life. Congratulation, GT!

KAY: In your alleged Scriptural prowess... give me an example or two of what their sins were... (Scriptural coordinates, please). Something akin to Jesus telling folk, "thy sin(s) be forgiven thee." To your surprise, Jesus NEVER directly and explicitly forgave a specific individual (there is one exception as I recall requiring further discussion). Otherwise, it would have been a 'beam him up, Scottie' scenario. And, I've not seen anyone disappear during a baptism, either, btw.

GT: You are going to have to explain what you are trying to convey.

I'm not trying to "convey" anything. I'm asking a question that is hard to capture with your ears closed, your blood-thirsty flagrum in your hand, and riding blind drunk on your unbridled war horse. Since you can't grasp the question, being persistently insistent to not hear anything besides repentant echoes from your war sermons, then simply disregard this entire post, from the get-go.

Thanks, GT...

kayaker

 

[turbosixx]

Excellent reference, btw! Jesus also referred to said times in Matthew 24:35 KJV, Matthew 24:36 KJV, Matthew 24:37 KJV, Matthew 24:38 KJV. Jesus made no mention of being baptized in those verses. Had water baptism been a prerequisite to salvation (flesh, that is, at least), I suspect Jesus would have said so.

This is how I understand it.

I agree, before Jesus' D,B & R being baptized in his name wasn't practiced and would not profit anyone because his blood was not backing it. After his sacrifice, he does establish baptism as a means of salvation.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Those eight souls were saved by water from being in the ark. Then, I see no direct reference water baptism spiritually saves anyone, the ark did, and Jesus is our ark through His resurrection.

I see what you’re saying, but if water baptism wasn't Peters point why even mention the water? Also, when he says baptism saves us he tells us what is happening during the baptism process in the hyphenated section -not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-
How would being HS baptized remove dirt from the body? Being baptized in water would do that, but he is telling us that is not what baptism is doing. By being water baptized we are making an appeal to God.

If we move the hyphenated section to the end we get this, which does not change the integrity of the sentence.
21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not the removal of dirt from the flesh but an appeal to God for a good conscience.

I see harmony with Romans 6.
Rom. 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death…… 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

I can easily see how being water baptized is like a death, burial and resurrection. I cannot see how being baptized with the HS is. Also, it doesn't say HS baptism.

Many proponents of water baptismal spiritual regeneration suggest one utterly must be "born of water", referring to Nicodemus, in order to be "born again." May I please refer you to a few verses earlier in 1 Peter:

1Peter 1:22, 23, KJV: "22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."​

So, I conclude water baptism does not convey being "born again." We are "born again" 'receiving' the Holy Ghost unveiling the truth not abundantly obvious in Scripture (John 14:26 KJV). And, I'm only aware of Paul getting the 20-gig download, all fell swoop.

I do see water baptism as being born agian. The Jews understood that they were God's people and they were born a child of God. They could no longer rely on their physical birth into the nation of Israel to be God’s chosen people anymore. So they needed to be born again. Jesus said make disciples baptizing them and we see conversions completed by baptism. Romans 6 says newness of life. That sounds like a new birth to me.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

I agree we need the HS, but I see the two working together, water and the Spirit. Just like Naaman, did the water cleanse his leprosy? Could he be cleansed without going into the water?

 

[heir]

Christ died for the sins we repent of doing.

Christ died for our sins, every single one of them, 2000 years before we were born! It is then that the debt was forgiven whether you believe it or not! Trust what was accomplished then and there and be saved!

 

[turbosixx]

See, T6... being baptized in the 'name' of Jesus is about authenticating His ancestry, His 'name', and water has no purpose in those debates.

I would suggest you are looking too deeply. What grade level do you understand the bible to be written on?

Then, please explain how water is supposed to impart the irrefutable OT Scriptural truth Jesus is Messiah? We are "born again... by the word of God" (1Peter 1:23 KJV), OT included!

The scriptures prove that Jesus is the Messiah.
Acts 18:28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

Water baptism is how we are coverted.
Matt. 2819 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit

And, the Holy Spirit plays an integral role unveiling His Word (John 14:16 KJV).

I understand the Holy Spirit guided the apostles and they wrote it down for us. That is how the Holy Spirit guides us today.
Jn. 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;
Heb. 5:13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

So, how about it, T6? How does water baptism open up Scripture unveiling the irrefutable and utter truth in Jesus' 'name' His ancestry? I suggest many folk are water baptized, and will get shot out of the pulpit with it comes down to authenticating Jesus 'name', His ancestry, all 77 unadulterated generations, thereof.
kayaker

Jesus said water and the Spirit and that is just what we see.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

 

[kayaker]

WOW! Some really great dialogue, T6...

Wish I could hang around enjoying the engagement. I'm gonna have to take a rain-check anxiously considering your post. I may get back this evening, or it may be in a few days, hopefully sooner!

kayaker

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The gospel of Christ is that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). All of our sins were in the future when He did so, so he died for ALL of them/every single one of them whether one believes that or not! Do try and think!

GT does not believe that Christ died for all of her sins. She is not saved.

Very true.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Jesus died for the sins for the whole world, for everyone.

What does that mean?

That means that we no longer have to make ourselves clean by doing the ceremonial works, just so we can go to a temple where God's Spirit was. It means Jesus' blood washes us clean just by believing it does. We have access to that grace by having faith that the sins we committed and repented of are washed clean. See Romans 5:2.

It means we are washed clean and become the temple of the Living God. We are then reconciled to God.

It does not mean we do not have to repent of our sins, for what are you being washed of if not repented sins? Do you think you are washed of sins that you are still dirty from doing?

You need to think.




You are not speaking the truth about me.

Yeah. I'm afraid she is. You poor soul.

 

[turbosixx]

WOW! Some really great dialogue, T6...

Wish I could hang around enjoying the engagement. I'm gonna have to take a rain-check anxiously considering your post. I may get back this evening, or it may be in a few days, hopefully sooner!

kayaker

I'm enjoying it as well. I do try hard to look past my filters and I appreciate your input. I’ll be away myself for a while here soon.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm enjoying it as well. I do try hard to look past my filters and I appreciate your input. I’ll be away myself for a while here soon.

Can't you see he is patronizing you?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Christ died for the sins we repent of doing.

Scripture verses please?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Romans 6:10 states: "For in that he died, he died unto sin once:
but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God."

 

[God's Truth]

Christ died for our sins, every single one of them, 2000 years before we were born! It is then that the debt was forgiven whether you believe it or not! Trust what was accomplished then and there and be saved!

You do not have access to that grace unless you have faith that Jesus' blood washes you of your sins that you confessed.

Jesus' words are not temporary. His words are forever.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

1 Peter 3:18 states: "For Christ also suffered for sins once for all,
the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God,
after being put to death in the fleshly realm but made alive in the
spiritual realm."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You do not have access to that grace unless you have faith that Jesus' blood washes you of your sins that you confessed.

Jesus' words are not temporary. His words are forever.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Luke was written to the House of Israel, not to the Gentiles.