Virginia Tech Horror Explained

[Granite]

Actually my concept of honesty is OBjective. Let your yes be yes and your no be no, Granite. That is my concept of honesty. So do you want to share HOW I have "lied about you"?

Yet you refuse to answer straight questions from chair. Convenient.

 

[PKevman]

Check what you said in post 23.

Now, you'll do either one of two things here, pastor: either squirm and try to weasel out of this or just say, "Yep, my bad, that was a mistake on my part. Sorry and let's carry on."

Chair already noticed this and so did I, but either this was a falsehood or a mistake on your part.

Actually I summed up my own observation of what you had said. I think Jefferson hit it right on the nail in post #11, and you did in fact avoid the questions asked of you. Then you attempted to explain away your refusals to answer by accusing Turbo of "spin control".

If I made a mistake I would gladly admit it. Your problem is that you won't LET anyone engage you, not that they haven't tried.

 

[PKevman]

Yet you refuse to answer straight questions from chair. Convenient.

Lovely debating style this is. Ok let's focus. What questions from chair did I refuse to answer?

 

[Granite]

Actually I summed up my own observation of what you had said. I think Jefferson hit it right on the nail in post #11, and you did in fact avoid the questions asked of you. Then you attempted to explain away your refusals to answer by accusing Turbo of "spin control".

If I made a mistake I would gladly admit it. Your problem is that you won't LET anyone engage you, not that they haven't tried.

You implied that I said all murder victims go to hell. This is a misrepresentation at best and total lie at worse.

Which basically means you're living up to what I expected. Nice going.

The problem you, Turbo, and others have is when guys like me or chair ask uncomfortable questions about the conclusions of your theology. That's when you break out this "well you just hate God" nonsense. Bottomline, you don't like thinking about the logical conclusions of your theology and I really can't blame you.

 

[PKevman]

You implied that I said all murder victims go to hell. This is a misrepresentation at best and total lie at worse.

Which basically means you're living up to what I expected. Nice going.

The problem you, Turbo, and others have is when guys like me or chair ask uncomfortable questions about the conclusions of your theology. That's when you break out this "well you just hate God" nonsense. Bottomline, you don't like thinking about the logical conclusions of your theology and I really can't blame you.

The question was asked of you what verse in the Bible says that murder victims go to hell. See Frank Ernest's post. You did not answer that question. I simply expounded upon that. Come on Granite let's cut to the chase. Your anger against God can only go so far. Give your heart to the Lord and stop fighting.

 

[Stripe]

I like how Satan can post and everyone just ignores him ... :chuckle:

 

[Granite]

The question was asked of you what verse in the Bible says that murder victims go to hell. See Frank Ernest's post. You did not answer that question. I simply expounded upon that. Come on Granite let's cut to the chase. Your anger against God can only go so far. Give your heart to the Lord and stop fighting.

Again, what I expected. If you want to misrepresent what I say, don't have the nerve to try and read my mind and assume you know a thing about me.

 

[SUTG]

The question was asked of you what verse in the Bible says that murder victims go to hell. See Frank Ernest's post. You did not answer that question.

I'll bet that granite will concede, as I will, that there is no Bible verse that says that murder victims go to hell.

Now here is a question for you: Do you think that it is likely that all of the murder victims at Virginia Tech accepted JC as their savior, or do you think it is more likely that some of them did not?

 

[Stripe]

Granite thinks people going to hell is a bad thing. Can't we just accept that and move on?

 

[PKevman]

I think Bob's show was great and dead on! :up:

 

[PKevman]

I'll bet that granite will concede, as I will, that there is no Bible verse that says that murder victims go to hell.

Now here is a question for you: Do you think that it is likely that all of the murder victims at Virginia Tech accepted JC as their savior, or do you think it is more likely that some of them did not?

Hi SUTG. I already answered this question earlier in my answer to Chair that Granite says didn't take place. It is certainly possible that some of the victims rejected Christ and went to hell. That is tragic and underscores the need of men and women to repent and turn to Jesus Christ. But the point I made is that it is all speculation because none of us KNOW the victims personally or can know for sure if they had a relationship with God or not. So what would be the purpose of speculating about it EXCEPT for those who hate God to attempt to have a reason to blast Christianity?

Now how about we get this thread on topic in regards to Bob's show?

 

[Turbo]

Also, Bob fed Al from Franktown misinformation: Lamentations 3:38, Isaiah 45:7.

Well you'd better call in and get the word out to his audience. They don't all read TOL, you know.


By the way, if you were among those murdered today, would you suddenly want to spend eternity with the God of the Bible?

 

[chair]

If you so well understand the requirements for attaining salvation, your excuses for rejecting Christ become more and more hollow. I understand completely that the driven goal of yourself and others (see Granite) in this conversation is to discredit Jesus Christ and to mock Him because of judgment, so I'm gonna steal your thunder and state that up front. The Bible makes it plainly clear that if any person rejects Christ they have no hope for eternity. This is across the board. So of course the greatest tragedy is that people would go into eternity without a relationship with the Lord. But they wouldn't have anyone to blame.

We all have a choice to make as God doesn't force Himself on anyone. So if the question you are asking is, "is it possible some of the murder victims went to hell?", of course it is possible. But I don't know a single one of the murder victims, and neither do you, so that makes this all an entire speculation, and the only goal you and Granite have in mind is to say "Oh look at that mean and evil Christian theology in action again", and then you and your atheist and God-hating friends can all pat one another on the back and make yourselves feel better about the judgment that you face if you continue to reject Jesus Christ and refuse to repent for your sins. I won't offer you any such false comfort because I care more about you than that.

Dear Pastor,

I was very careful not to attack you presonally in my post. Is it so difficult for you to do the same?

My purpose in the post was to show what the logical consequences of your theology are, and the bottom line is as I expected:

The only criteria for going to Hell or not is belief in Jesus, so non-believing murder victims will end up in Hell just like their killers.

Thsi means that some of the Virginia Tech victims are in Hell right now, along with their killers (there is one Israeli among those identified who is not likely a Christian, so pretending that maybe, just maybe , all of the victims were saved won't work).

This also means that millions of European Jews are in Hell right now, along with theri Nazi killers.

These, you admit, are the logical consequences in your theology. You apparently think that this is OK, that this the way the world is. To some of us here (not just "God- Haters") this seems rather odd, to say the least.

Have a nice day!
God Bless!

 

[Granite]

Dear Pastor,

I was very careful not to attack you presonally in my post. Is it so difficult for you to do the same?

My purpose in the post was to show what the logical consequences of your theology are, and the bottom line is as I expected:

The only criteria for going to Hell or not is belief in Jesus, so non-believing murder victims will end up in Hell just like their killers.

Thsi means that some of the Virginia Tech victims are in Hell right now, along with their killers (there is one Israeli among those identified who is not likely a Christian, so pretending that maybe, just maybe , all of the victims were saved won't work).

This also means that millions of European Jews are in Hell right now, along with theri Nazi killers.

These, you admit, are the logical consequences in your theology. You apparently think that this is OK, that this the way the world is. To some of us here (not just "God- Haters") this seems rather odd, to say the least.

Have a nice day!
God Bless!

Yes. "Odd" to say the least.

 

[chair]

Pastor-

I am curious about how you deal with the consequences of your theology. Does it seem completely natural to you that the only criterion for going to Heaven of Hell is belief or lack of belief in Jesus? Or does it bother you on a personal level, but you accept it as being God's way?

Thanks,

Chair

 

[Stripe]

I don't understand the point. Two people, one murdererd the other, both end up in hell because they reject Christ. Does this make hell a bad place to go? I thought you were trying to find reasons to say hell doesn't exist.

 

[PKevman]

I am curious about how you deal with the consequences of your theology.

I base my entire life around what God's Word says. That is how I deal with the consequences of my theology.

Does it seem completely natural to you that the only criterion for going to Heaven of Hell is belief or lack of belief in Jesus?

Without Jesus none of us would be going to Heaven, chair. Because of OUR SIN there is death and suffering in the world. God did not originally create this world containing sin in it. God created it perfect and without sin. We brought death into the world when WE chose to sin.

The wonder of God's grace is that a holy and righteous God who utterly despises sin would allow sinners to enter His Heaven which is perfect and without sin, death, or disease. It is also without crazed lunatic gunman who kill others and themselves. The wonder is that God would allow a sinner like me into His perfect Heaven, because I sure don't deserve to be there! There is nothing natural about our faith. It is faith in a SUPERNATURAL God! A supernatural God who payed the penalty for my sins on the cross of Calvary so that I don't have to pay that penalty.

Our Godless public schools are culpable for this horrendous shooting for continuing to teach kids that they are nothing more than animals. Why then should we be surprised when they act like animals?

Think about this chair, IF man had not sinned and brought death into the world, then there would not have EVER been a student massacre in the first place. Sin is the culprit and the enemy of mankind, along with Satan the tempter.

God bless you as well.

 

[Granite]

Unreal. "Our godless public schools."

:doh:

 

[chair]

I base my entire life around what God's Word says. That is how I deal with the consequences of my theology.



Without Jesus none of us would be going to Heaven, chair. Because of OUR SIN there is death and suffering in the world. God did not originally create this world containing sin in it. God created it perfect and without sin. We brought death into the world when WE chose to sin.

The wonder of God's grace is that a holy and righteous God who utterly despises sin would allow sinners to enter His Heaven which is perfect and without sin, death, or disease. It is also without crazed lunatic gunman who kill others and themselves. The wonder is that God would allow a sinner like me into His perfect Heaven, because I sure don't deserve to be there! There is nothing natural about our faith. It is faith in a SUPERNATURAL God! A supernatural God who payed the penalty for my sins on the cross of Calvary so that I don't have to pay that penalty.

Our Godless public schools are culpable for this horrendous shooting for continuing to teach kids that they are nothing more than animals. Why then should we be surprised when they act like animals?

Think about this chair, IF man had not sinned and brought death into the world, then there would not have EVER been a student massacre in the first place. Sin is the culprit and the enemy of mankind, along with Satan the tempter.

God bless you as well.

So the bottom line is that we are ALL really bad and sinful, and the diference between a mass murderer and myself is not that great. Only faith can save either of us. Is that correct?

 

[Frank Ernest]

So the bottom line is that we are ALL really bad and sinful,

You're getting the idea. I suspect it might puncture your ego some if you actually believed it.

and the diference between a mass murderer and myself is not that great.

I would opine that there is a substantial difference between you and a mass murderer -- unless you are contemplating a mass murder somewhere.

Only faith can save either of us. Is that correct?

Yes. John 3:16-21 gets into some specifics.