GD, When was the last time you read Genesis 4:13-15 and 6:1-12 (AKA the "Dispensation of Conscience", the period between God banning the law for Cain and Noah)?
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- Thread starter ok doser
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GD, When was the last time you read Genesis 4:13-15 and 6:1-12 (AKA the "Dispensation of Conscience", the period between God banning the law for Cain and Noah)?
glorydaz
Well-known member
It doesn't?
glorydaz
Well-known member
JR, all men have a conscience, and the law is written in it.
Even in the age of Grace, men have a conscience.
Adam had a conscience.
We were created with the law of God written in our conscience. Read Romans 1 and 2
I'm not Doser, and you didn't answer my question.
When was the last time you read those passages?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I know you're not willing to listen.
Are you suggesting that one instance is the only time a conscience might be seared with a hot iron? :idea:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Don't get testy with me. I corrected my post.
I've read those chapters many many times. If you have something specific to show me, then you can do so.
You can't deny that men have a conscience no matter what the dispensation. And they also have God's law written therein.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
seems obvious :idunno:
:think:
seemed to work in europe :idunno:
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
i'd fold that into #2 :thumb:
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
i do, but it's a form i first copied from barbie, troll-extraordinaire
i tend to use it when a conversation gets long and unraveled, but it's tempting to use it the way barbie did, particularly in attributing emotion to the other
if you see me write "tam angrily responds" or any use of "furious", call me out :thumb:
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, I still believe it, but a seared conscience means a dead conscience....for that, there is no hope. A dead conscience cannot be purified by faith. It's DEAD...SEARED...God has given them over.
I wish you wouldn't work so hard to make it look like I contradict myself. I'm being as forthright as I can be.
I see a HUGE difference between a serial killer/child molester, and those who commit adultery. It seems like you guys are trying to make them comparable, but they simply are NOT, and no amount of badgering will make me believe otherwise.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Whatever, I don't like, and I may have to get mean if you keep it up. Do you really want that to happen?
Sorry, didn't notice the change.
Not what I'm looking at.
You claim to have read it many times, and I don't doubt you, but you seem to have missed the important part.
The entire period between Cain and Noah, the "Dispensation of Conscience", is called that for a reason.
THERE. WAS. NO. LAW.
And what was the result of having no law?
Here's what it was like:
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. . . . The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth. - Genesis 6:5,11-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis6:5,11-13&version=NKJV
Now, I don't know if you've noticed, but that's where our current society is heading, and quickly.
Why?
Because we (society) have been tearing down the law, the boundaries, the restraints, that keep society from decaying (or at least that slow the decay). Society is becoming more and more like the "dispensation of conscience,"
And that's not a good thing.
You say you don't have to keep the law.
Good for you. :mock:
What about those, ie, the rest of the world, who are under the law?
They, GD, are busy tearing down the law they are under, so they cannot be condemned for their wickedness, for they are indeed wicked.
It doesn't restrain anyone.
It only condemns AFTER the act has been committed.
That's not restraint.
Restraint is keeping you bound so that you cannot commit the act.
This is false.
It being false is evidenced by how many times God "gave over" Israel to the wicked, yet was brought back by the faithful.
Why do you limit God?
Can God not turn back from "giving them over"?
How many times in scripture did God give up on Israel, only to be brought back to them by intercession on behalf of those who loved Him?
Yet they are still alive, which means they STILL, even if God has "given them over," have the chance to repent.
Which is why we pray to God to not give up on those who have a seared conscience, to work on them. "Given them over" doesn't mean that God has completely abandoned them.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
i see no difference between the two in terms of being receptive to the gospel message
not because I have any overinflated conception of my abilities to convert them, but because I trust that with Christ, all things are possible.
Sure it does.
The threat of being put to death publicly, swiftly and painfully is a huge deterrent (restraint) to the mind of a would-be criminal.
How about before? Last I checked, having a deterrent in place (the death penalty, corporal punishment, restitution) is to DETER crime BEFORE it happens, and after it happens, it serves as a guide to what should happen to the criminal for doing it.
A deterrent is a restraint, and a better one than trying to make it so that people cannot commit crime.
You could put someone in handcuffs, but he'll just want to break out of them, and all the more if doing so would reward him with freedom.
There's no restraint at all for him.
However, put him in handcuffs, and make him aware the the punishment for even attempting to break out of them will result in him being flogged, and further attempts will be met with being flogged more? He will sit there quietly until they are removed, usually if not before the first flogging, then after, if the punishment is swiftly executed on him.
As Solomon said:
Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. - Ecclesiastes 8:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes8:11&version=NKJV
In other words, the BEST restraint to use is the mind of the criminal.
Trying to prevent someone from committing a crime by making it harder to commit the crime doesn't work, because the criminal will just try to work out how to go around it.
However...
If he doesn't want to commit the crime, for fear of being caught and punished, then he won't even bother committing the crime.
glorydaz
Well-known member
There has always been a law. It just wasn't written down until God gave it to Israel. We see proof of that in Scripture. For instance, we see Pharaoh knowing it was wrong to covet Abram's wife before the commandments were given. There couldn't be sin without a law to transgress.
Genesis 18:20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Who told you about this "Dispensation of Conscience"?
God says men are without excuse because of our built in conscience and the knowledge of God created IN US.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
In a sense, yes and no.
Yes, in that morality has always existed, because it's an aspect of God's existence, God being eternal.
No, in that there was no law, or "enforced morality", between
So the law that God gave Noah after he came off the ark wasn't really a law... Because it wasn't written down? That's a poor standard for something to be a law or not.
God told Noah almost immediately after coming off the ark that murder was to be punished with death, whereas for the past 1600 years it had not been punishable.
I had heard it before, but it was made clear to me by Pastor Enyart in his Genesis Bible study.
Here, read up:
https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-dispensations.html
In addition to that, in order to preemptively counter man's accusation against Him, God allowed a period of NO LAW to show that man is wicked with or without the law, and that, generally speaking, man is better off WITH the law than without. This took place in the "Dispensation of Conscience" (which, to correct myself, started when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden, not with Cain).