Trucking!

ok doser

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I suppose if you're going to run into a truck, it'd be difficult to find one better equipped to save your stupid life

 

ffreeloader

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That rider didn't need to counter steer. He just needed to not go into the corner already across the center line. If he had just driven a little more defensively by moving his line to the right he would have been fine. I've been in some pretty close high speed scrapes on road bikes and that guy made a lot more mistakes than not counter steering.
 

JudgeRightly

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I suppose if you're going to run into a truck, it'd be difficult to find one better equipped to save your stupid life


That rider didn't need to counter steer. He just needed to not go into the corner already across the center line. If he had just driven a little more defensively by moving his line to the right he would have been fine. I've been in some pretty close high speed scrapes on road bikes and that guy made a lot more mistakes than not counter steering.

Counter-steering is one thing.

Driving too fast for conditions is quite another.

He should have slowed down when going around that corner, which would have given him more time to react if he had needed it, which is unlikely, because his momentum wouldn't have carried him into oncoming traffic.
 

TomO

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Counter-steering is one thing.

Driving too fast for conditions is quite another.

He should have slowed down when going around that corner, which would have given him more time to react if he had needed it, which is unlikely, because his momentum wouldn't have carried him into oncoming traffic.
:unsure: *MEH* He didn't seem to be going too fast to me, just a n00b rider who's afraid to lean.

All counter-steering does is bring the bike down without you having to lean it as much....It uses the geometry of the front wheel to accomplish this. If you lean your bike rather than trying to wrestle with the handlebars (like that guy was doing) you really never have to do it. Problem is that most people are just not comfortable leaning that radically....Gives 'em the willies....So they have to do little tricks like counter-steering.

Not a problem I usually have....My girl loves to grind pegs.

IMG_0791.JPG
 

ffreeloader

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:unsure: *MEH* He didn't seem to be going too fast to me, just a n00b rider who's afraid to lean.

All counter-steering does is bring the bike down without you having to lean it as much....It uses the geometry of the front wheel to accomplish this. If you lean your bike rather than trying to wrestle with the handlebars (like that guy was doing) you really never have to do it. Problem is that most people are just not comfortable leaning that radically....Gives 'em the willies....So they have to do little tricks like counter-steering.

Not a problem I usually have....My girl loves to grind pegs.

View attachment 1947
I agree in part. He was definitely a noob.

If you look at the video notice what the bike rider in front of him takes as his line around the same corner. He swings wide before he enters the corner and cuts across his lane to the very inside of the corner. That allows him another 15-20 feet of drift exiting the corner before he has to enter the oncoming traffic. That was this riders main mistake, and it is a noob's mistake because he takes the wrong line from the very beginning.

I had a fast road bike in the 70's: a 3 cylinder Kawasaki 500. It was fun to ride due to it's high rates of accelleration but it taught riders to take very defensive lines because of it's very poor cornering ability. It handled great under straight line accelleration but as soon as you entered a corner you were basically on your own. Those bikes wouldn't corner for love nor money. If you wanted to ride fast on the highway you learned how to take lines around corners that kept you on your side of the road.
 

JudgeRightly

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:unsure: *MEH* He didn't seem to be going too fast to me, just a n00b rider who's afraid to lean.

I'm not saying that that's not part of it. I'm not even saying he was going really fast. I'm just saying he was going around a blind curve at a much higher rate of speed than he should have, and that THAT's why his trajectory took him into oncoming traffic.

At 0:21, he lets go of his left handlebar brake (and never brakes again) and starts to accelerate (right wrist drop). Had he ceased accelerating, or at about 0:25 and started braking, he would have slowed down enough that when he started turning (at the point he started his turn), he would not have overshot his side of the road, and would have had more time to react to the situation. Instead, at 0:27.8 or 0:27.9, he panics because he realizes that his momentum is going to carry him into oncoming traffic, which in this case, turned out to be a large truck.

It's the momentum part that I'm addressing, not his reaction to the situation. I agree, had he steered left, he might have been able to save it. But my point is that he shouldn't have gotten himself into that situation to begin with, and wouldn't have, had he slowed down a bit as he started his turn around the blind corner.

Defensive driving, not reactive driving. If we apply the Smith System, the applicable keys here are aim high in steering, get the big picture, and leave yourself an out. He didn't aim for his side of the road around the blind corner, and because it was a blind corner, he couldn't get the big picture, and his momentum (and then his panic) prevented him from recovering, and left him with no way out of a collision course with the truck.

On a related note, one of my instructors back when I was in truck driving school, who also rode a bike, said something that's stuck with me all these years:

Drive a motorcycle like it's a big truck, and drive a big truck like it's a motorcycle. The first half of that applies here. Driving a motorcycle like it's a big truck refers to keeping your momentum in check. If you go around a corner too fast in a semi, you'll lose control and possibly flip or cause a wreck. The same applies here: He cornered too fast, and his momentum carried him into oncoming traffic and he caused a wreck after losing control.
 

TomO

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Not sure if you guys have seen this....It's kinda old but then so was the video that started this line of discussion. :unsure:

:sneaky: Like I said boys & girls....All ya gotta do is lean. (*Pucker moment at about 1:05-6 or so when he pivots a bit on his peg.*)

 

ffreeloader

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Not sure if you guys have seen this....It's kinda old but then so was the video that started this line of discussion. :unsure:

:sneaky: Like I said boys & girls....All ya gotta do is lean. (*Pucker moment at about 1:05-6 or so when he pivots a bit on his peg.*)

If a rider does not take the correct line he cannot compensate by leaning farther. This video proves it by what you refer to as the "pucker moment" and the lines these guys are riding.

Even when I drove my sports car really fast on curvy roads my main tool to maintain speed was the line I took. When I could see far enough ahead to know there was no oncoming traffic, not on blind corners, I'd cut clear across the road and take those corners on the inside of the opposite lane. That can add a lot of speed because it really elongates the arc of the corners.
 
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