Tolerance vs Godliness

Free-Agent Smith · Nov 10, 2004

Originally posted by Chileice

I don't think my tax dollars should be the driving force behind keeping a person alive. If that is the case, then abortion makes sense and so does euthanasia. It is certainly cheaper to abort than to support a welfare baby. And WAY cheaper to knock off some old grandpa before he sucks up my tax dollars on his long-term illness. The amount spent on keeping a few people in prison for the lon-term is nothing compared to what is spent on welfare and SS. But that is NOT a reason to allow abortion or euthanasia. At least it isn't for a pro-life person like myself.

God has saved many people in prison. Sometimes a man or woman has to come to the end of the rope before they allow God any room in their lives. There will be judgement for those who take the lives of another... even the life of a criminal. Life is sacred and I am not God. I will leave the determination of life and death to Him.

I don't support abortion, euthanasia, welfare nor do I even care for the idea of social security(it breeds laziness). I don't believe in using the death penalty as a tool for vegence. I don't believe in letting people like murderers live because there is that possibility that they might get the chance to murder again. As for a convicted person's relationship with God, that is between them and God.

Free-Agent Smith · Nov 10, 2004

Originally posted by Chileice

As far as all those mass-murderers go... I certainly have a hard time letting them live. I am for them living based on principle.... not on any warm feeling I have toward them. I too am tempted to let my desire for vengeance get the best of me. But I still think letting them live is the God-honoring thing to do.

What principle? Since when do we honor God by letting murderers live?

Nineveh · Nov 10, 2004

Originally posted by Dave Miller

Which witch? Which witch is whitch?

Did you bother to read the first post of this thread?

Nineveh · Nov 10, 2004

A better principle:

By lying to my people, who listen to lies, you have killed those who should not have died and have spared those who should not live.

Chileice · Nov 10, 2004

Originally posted by Free-Agent Smith

What principle? Since when do we honor God by letting murderers live?

Since the coming of the Lord. The New Testament has 101 verse with the word "kill" in it (NKJV) and not once, not even ONE time does the NT say we should kill anybody. It always speaks of killing in negative terms except in Revelation at the final judgement. It is not now ours to kill anyone. If God chooses to kill someone for their behaviour, He will and he has the power to do it as he did Herod and Annanias and Sapphira without the intervention of any human instrumentality. I believe more of them would either die or be saved if we were redemptive rather than vindictive.

Free-Agent Smith · Nov 10, 2004

Originally posted by Chileice

Since the coming of the Lord. The New Testament has 101 verse with the word "kill" in it (NKJV) and not once, not even ONE time does the NT say we should kill anybody. It always speaks of killing in negative terms except in Revelation at the final judgement. It is not now ours to kill anyone. If God chooses to kill someone for their behaviour, He will and he has the power to do it as he did Herod and Annanias and Sapphira without the intervention of any human instrumentality. I believe more of them would either die or be saved if we were redemptive rather than vindictive.

God gave authority to the government to judge things such as murder and other crimes. Maybe you would care to point out in either testament where God said that the use of death as a means of punishment. The NT speaks of killing but doesn't condone murder. If it does please point me to the book, chapter and verse.

And why do you think our laws concerning the death penalty are vindictive?

Aimiel · Nov 10, 2004

Jesus said that we should forgive others, but He never told us to abandon government, or reason. There are people who deserve the death penalty, and the mere fact that the leading opponent of it is France should tell you that.

firechyld · Nov 10, 2004

I have heard so much of what Chileice has said. I agree with him at times, but he's ignoring the truth, here. I used to believe exactly what he does. I now know I was wrong. I will not run form sinners, but I won't tolerate sin, either. And if they don't care about the truth, I'll shake the dust from my feet. I thought I knew who I was in Christ, but I was so farr off. Then I saw the scriptures that contradicted me. And I felt so free. I am dead to sin. The plank has been removed from my eye. And I can now see clearly to remove the speck from my brother's eye.

Again... no-one's trying to change your beliefs. No-one's asking you to "tolerate sin".

We're just trying to get in touch with that interesting and friendly lad who used to use your name. Because he seems to be lost under the craving for confrontation that's driving you now.

Don't you come here for conversation anymore? It's a shame... I could really use someone to discuss the new X-Men title with. But, as I said before, your attitude makes me not want to converse with you anymore.

And that has nothing to do with what you believe.

I miss lighthouse.

I liked him ever so much better than Sozo the Second.

firechyld · Nov 10, 2004

Chileice:

Thank you for sharing that story. You have my sympathies.

Lighthouse · Nov 11, 2004

Originally posted by Chileice

When I was young, I let my zealouness ruin my relationship with my brother. He got into a cult group and I got into a very strict discipleship fellowship. We couldn't get together without argueing. So I just didn't get together with him. Later after I got out of college, got done criticizing all the luke-warm churches, got done trying to correct the whole world for how they could not be discipling everyone exactly how I was taught, I began to get in touch with my brother again. We had set up a time to get together for Christmas at my uncle's home and to spend a couple of weeks together and rebuild the relationship and actually enjoy one another again.

Well, it never happened. He was killed before it happened. The nice long letter I had written him was sitting by the door stamped and ready to go to the post office when my wife and I got the call. You see, lighthouse, you can love people even if you don't agree. And you had better well come to understand that before you have to live with the regret of being a hard-nose jerk in the name of God. The weird thing is, he had gotten out of the cult.... without my help. All my hardness did was ruin a relationship with someone I loved, and nothing can bring that back, not even all the "right doctrine" in the world. That's why I even bother with you, lighthouse. Because I see a lot of me in you. And I would love to help you avoid the amazing heartache of being right and killing love.

My brother and I get along just fine. It seems to me that the net is not the easiest place to actually show my personality. It doesn't come across as who I truly am. Anyone who knows me personally, and has seen who I am now, likes me, and has no qualms wiht me in this area. Except for a few who don't understand when I'm kidding, and take offense when none is meant.

Maybe in this context, these verses will make sense to you. The letter can kill. In many things I was right, even back in college. But my spirit was hard-edged and cold and looking for a fight. That made the letter kill. When my spirit changed the same letter can now be shared in a life-giving way. Something to consider, my friend.

"The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."
-1 Corinthians 15:56

The law is all about death. Grace is all about life.

Lighthouse · Nov 11, 2004

Originally posted by firechyld

Again... no-one's trying to change your beliefs. No-one's asking you to "tolerate sin".

We're just trying to get in touch with that interesting and friendly lad who used to use your name. Because he seems to be lost under the craving for confrontation that's driving you now.

Don't you come here for conversation anymore? It's a shame... I could really use someone to discuss the new X-Men title with. But, as I said before, your attitude makes me not want to converse with you anymore. And that has nothing to do with what you believe.

I miss lighthouse. I liked him ever so much better than Sozo the Second.

I haven't been reading it.

Anyway, I do still converse outside of theology. But I'm sick of hypocrites like Dave Miller. And I'm also tired of people like granite who can't stop badmouthing Christianity based on what some people did with it. And I feel pain for you, because I know God wants so much more for you.

aikido7 · Nov 11, 2004

Constantinian Christianity vs. Godliness.

Ceasar vs. Jesus

Dogma vs. Parable

Nineveh · Nov 11, 2004

Wicca vs Episcopals is the theme of this thread.

Aimiel · Nov 11, 2004

Originally posted by firechyld

I miss lighthouse. I liked him ever so much better than Sozo the Second.

I just said basically this very thing, to a friend, on the phone, last night. Very true. Sozo, Jr.. :nono:

Nineveh · Nov 11, 2004

Personally, I'm rather relieved :Brandon: isn't like dave miller.

Lighthouse · Nov 12, 2004

Thank you, :Nineveh:.

servent101 · Jan 12, 2005

Lighthouse

And I feel pain for you, because I know God wants so much more for you.

So there is actually a heart under all those nasty insults you keep posting?

Who would of guessed? It is definately well hidden.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

Nineveh · Jan 12, 2005

Originally posted by servent101

So there is actually a heart under all those nasty insults you keep posting?

Who would of guessed? It is definately well hidden.

Now what were you telling me today about being "nice" and not judging? Leading by example?

Lighthouse · Jan 13, 2005

Serpent101-
You're going to hell if you don't submit to Christ.

servent101 · Jan 13, 2005

Lighthouse

You're going to hell if you don't submit to Christ.

Someday you may meet the LORD - and He will be so unlike your ill guided concept you hold now, that you will be liberated from all your misconceptions - and life will be worth living again. As it seems apparent now - you live to kill people, by insulting them, verbally abusing them in the vain justification that your "diabolical monster" you worship as God, has instructed you to do this uncalled hate and stigma campaign.

Keep at it Lighthouse - keep trying, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

With Christ’s Love

Servent101

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