toldailytopic: Why do atheists spend so much time on Christian forums such as Theolog

[Flipper]

Communism has very little to say about God, and plenty to say about the role of religion. In the end, communism purported to be a historical and scientific description of the structures of society and the development and control of the means of production. Once these processes were understood, it created a new idealistic possibility - a "truly" communist society in which everyone was free, and concepts such as private property and even the state itself had withered away.

The early Christians lived according to communist principles, although they were obviously not communists themselves.

 

[Granite]

Speaking of atheism. For those legitimate Christian conservatives out there, I wanted to share this great article by Middletown Bible Church entitled "The Ten Tottering Pillars of Communism.

1. Communism Denies the Existence of God.

2. Communism Is a Religion Based Upon the Worship of Man.

3. Communism Teaches that Matter Is Eternal.

4. Communism Is Based Upon the Theory of Evolution.

5. Communism Blames Society for Man's Ills.

6. Communism Believes that Man Himself Can Bring in the Utopia.

7. Communism Promotes the Philosophy That the End Justifies the Means.

8. Communism Has As Its Goal the Conquest of the World.

9. Communism Enslaves the Individual and Takes Away His Freedom.

10. Communism is Thoroughly Anti-Christian.
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/crisesod/crises9.htm

Come out come out wherever you are little Marxists,Trotskyites, Leninists and Stalinists, and defend your "religion".

:yawn:

Why don't you defend your solitary life? No spouse, no kids. You're a burn out cop.

 

[Skavau]

Speaking of atheism. For those legitimate Christian conservatives out there, I wanted to share this great article by Middletown Bible Church entitled "The Ten Tottering Pillars of Communism.

What?

To talk about atheism, you post an article blithering on about Communism?

1. Communism Denies the Existence of God.

Perhaps many common strands of Communism deny the existence of God. But not all atheists are actually communist, so this doesn't really mean anything.

2. Communism Is a Religion Based Upon the Worship of Man.

Actually, if anything was based on the 'worship' of man - it would be humanism. Communism and Objectivism are indeed human centered but both come from completely opposite angles.

3. Communism Teaches that Matter Is Eternal.

Communism is a political ideology. It has nothing to say about the universe.

4. Communism Is Based Upon the Theory of Evolution.

That's quite impressive, given that Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto about 16 years before Charles Darwin did the origin of species.

5. Communism Blames Society for Man's Ills.

So do many people. Objectivists and Libertarians and generally small-government proponents blame government getting too involved and controlling too much of society and the economy for man's ills and Socialists and Communists would blame too little government intervention and corporate control in society as damaging society.

6. Communism Believes that Man Himself Can Bring in the Utopia.

No, that would probably be Objectivism.

7. Communism Promotes the Philosophy That the End Justifies the Means.

The irony with this message is strong. Even more so when I discuss with Committed Christians their belief in judgment day. In fact, it is declared directly by many less-fervent Christians that nevermind how capricious and bizarre natural events may seem - God works in mysterious ways, and all will come good in the end.

Utilitarianism with God is very common in Christian thinking. To suggest anything less is to either endorse his absence, or criticise his acts.

8. Communism Has As Its Goal the Conquest of the World.

More irony!

What is your ultimate hope, by the way?

9. Communism Enslaves the Individual and Takes Away His Freedom.

Yes. The track record of Communism has been pretty horrendous.

10. Communism is Thoroughly Anti-Christian.

It is anti-religious in general.

Come out come out wherever you are little Marxists,Trotskyites, Leninists and Stalinists, and defend your "religion".

This thread is directed to atheists. Most atheists in the western world now count themselves as humanists - not communists.

And to directly put Stalinism, Leninism, Marxism and Trotskyism together like that suggests you've never even conversed with a Communist.

 

[Granite]

Stalinism, Leninism, Maoism, eh..."they all look the same to me" usually comes to mind when dealing with a critic.

 

[Dr.Watson]

Or, as I put it elsewhere and a while ago, you can paint the door to an abyss any festive color you want, but it's still only a door to nothing.

A fine description of religion: "A festively painted door to nothing" [sic]. Or maybe it's just a festively painted nothing. :think:

 

[Dr.Watson]

Speaking of atheism. For those legitimate Christian conservatives out there, I wanted to share this great article by Middletown Bible Church entitled "The Ten Tottering Pillars of Communism.

1. Communism Denies the Existence of God.

2. Communism Is a Religion Based Upon the Worship of Man.

3. Communism Teaches that Matter Is Eternal.

4. Communism Is Based Upon the Theory of Evolution.

5. Communism Blames Society for Man's Ills.

6. Communism Believes that Man Himself Can Bring in the Utopia.

7. Communism Promotes the Philosophy That the End Justifies the Means.

8. Communism Has As Its Goal the Conquest of the World.

9. Communism Enslaves the Individual and Takes Away His Freedom.

10. Communism is Thoroughly Anti-Christian.
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/crisesod/crises9.htm

Come out come out wherever you are little Marxists,Trotskyites, Leninists and Stalinists, and defend your "religion".

Did anyone else hear the drum roll on that one? "ba-dum-ching"

 

[Town Heretic]

A fine description of religion: "A festively painted door to nothing" [sic]. Or maybe it's just a festively painted nothing. :think:

Only if I'm wrong, in which case my part is indistinguishable at the very end with the thing you necessarily accept at every point and remains superior as a methodology for living prior to that end.

 

[Granite]

Uh, not really...

 

[salumiere]

I don't believe in athiests.

 

[salumiere]

"When the mob governs, man is ruled by ignorance;
when the church governs, he is ruled by superstition;
and when the state governs, he is ruled by fear.
Before men can live together in harmony and understanding,
ignorance must be transmuted into wisdom,
superstition into an illumined faith,
and fear into love."

Manly P. Hall

 

[Lighthouse]

"When the mob governs, man is ruled by ignorance;
when the church governs, he is ruled by superstition;
and when the state governs, he is ruled by fear.
Before men can live together in harmony and understanding,
ignorance must be transmuted into wisdom,
superstition into an illumined faith,
and fear into love."

Manly P. Hall

And when God governs man is ruled by awesome!

 

[Town Heretic]

Uh, not really...

Wasn't sure if I should tackle this point to point or not...lain:

You'll give more of your time and money to others, which benefits the social compact, be happier and healthier than your counterparts and generally have a more hopeful context for the experience of life, which is better for you.

You may be wrong, but if so you'll be the last to know it and in the meantime enjoy a more rewarding life.

 

[rexlunae]

You'll give more of your time and money to others, which benefits the social compact, be happier and healthier than your counterparts and generally have a more hopeful context for the experience of life, which is better for you.

Seems like if he wanted to give more of his time and money, he could do that without changing his metaphysics. And hope seems like it follows belief rather than preceding it, at least for me.

You may be wrong, but if so you'll be the last to know it and in the meantime enjoy a more rewarding life.

You can't really promise that. You can cite statistics all day long, but those are nothing but overall averages, and it's really hard to demonstrate what will happen in any individual case.

 

[Town Heretic]

Seems like if he wanted to give more of his time and money, he could do that without changing his metaphysics. And hope seems like it follows belief rather than preceding it, at least for me.

Except it doesn't work out that way. :idunno: Could be there's a difference between believing in an obligation/connection between the individual and society and believing that you engineer or create the obligation and extent of it.

You can't really promise that.

Sure I can and I'll be right much more often than I'll be wrong.

You can cite statistics all day long, but those are nothing but overall averages, and it's really hard to demonstrate what will happen in any individual case.

A bit like suggesting that you can't predict most hitters won't make .400 just because as a rule they won't.

Sure, there's an exception to anything, and a rule for everything.

 

[Granite]

You'll give more of your time and money to others, which benefits the social compact, be happier and healthier than your counterparts and generally have a more hopeful context for the experience of life, which is better for you.

So you're saying that if one is religious--regardless of the religion--they will generally tend to give more of their resources than non-religious individuals. Is that always, or most of the time, or ideally?

I'd like to know where exactly you get this idea. I mean are there studies or statistics to back this up? Or is it more of a hunch? Serious question.

You may be wrong, but if so you'll be the last to know it and in the meantime enjoy a more rewarding life.

Going back to an organized religion of any kind would not be "rewarding" for me, TH, and if you're implying tha true fulfillment can only be found through one of the many systems our species has invented, you're simply mistaken. Everyone's path is different and some folks need the system. Others enjoy it. Others just don't. And as you guys are wont to do, you seem to take a black or white approach to this: if I'm wrong, the Mormons well might be right, or the Zoroastrians may, or perhaps it's Buddhism that's closest to the truth. That doesn't exactly guarantee you're on the right track, either.

 

[Town Heretic]

So you're saying that if one is religious--regardless of the religion--they will generally tend to give more of their resources than non-religious individuals. Is that always, or most of the time, or ideally?

Yes with regard to the broadly religious and it's significant as a rule. More irksome is the tie-in to conservative giving, but I'll leave it that off for now.

I'd like to know where exactly you get this idea. I mean are there studies or statistics to back this up? Or is it more of a hunch? Serious question.

Had this conversation a while back and a few times with...Stuu possibly. Serious studies by reputable groups. I'll dredge them up if you're interested. I should have pulled and set aside the links, but I didn't think I'd be going into it again. Figures. :chuckle:

Going back to an organized religion of any kind would not be "rewarding" for me, TH, and if you're implying tha true fulfillment can only be found through one of the many systems our species has invented, you're simply mistaken.

I'd say a community of faith does foster greater happiness for most people and for the reasons you'd expect, even absent the underlying contention. As to what road life will take you down, who knows. Today is not tomorrow. I once knew I would never marry. Go figure. The invention thing is a bit silly for a rationalist, but you are where you are until you aren't and there's nothing I can say to you that will make a bit of difference now. I'm not implying anything though. I'm saying rather emphatically that most human beings are built for hope and community and that the best of both of these, in terms of our response to them and benefit derived, would appear to be found in the realm of the religious. The question of whether this is because we're hard wired by God or simply predisposed by our natures to invent Him is an individual question and my answer is entirely that.

Everyone's path is different and some folks need the system. Others enjoy it. Others just don't.

In order: agreed, most everyone (though it's a matter of finding the right community of faith), wrong community. Only sociopaths were meant to live apart. The rest of us are formed, by nature or by God, to groom and coo and help and encourage one another. When we do, we're happier. It's like being in a good marriage. You realize that it's better than any happy singularity, but good luck convincing someone who either hasn't had the experience or has had a horrible one. All you can do is present the example and witness to the benefit and hope they find it on their own further along the line.

And as you guys are wont to do, you seem to take a black or white approach to this: if I'm wrong, the Mormons well might be right, or the Zoroastrians may, or perhaps it's Buddhism that's closest to the truth. That doesn't exactly guarantee you're on the right track, either.

I don't recall doing that. Rather, I responded and continue to respond to a very direct experience...I don't know what happened or happens to others in the way I understand my own. And I wasn't called into a particular community within the faithful, though I find a good deal of fellowship here and nearly everywhere I go. It's remarkable how God can single you out for people or how simply approaching any given moment mindful of God's presence can transform the normally mundane into an uplifting opportunity. These I could recount ad nauseam, but I suspect you take my meaning.

Be well my friend. :e4e:

 

[grit]

toldailytopic: Why do atheists spend so much time on Christian forums such as TheologyOnline?

It's the free pretzels. :sherlock:

 

[serpentdove]

... I’m here because I get a kick out of TOL ...

Payday someday (Lk 19:27).

 

[serpentdove]

...delusional people amuse me. They get even funnier when they are so arrogant about their delusion...

:yawn: Amos 5:10.

 

[serpentdove]

...[D]do you have any corroborating evidence from those people besides the source of the Bible?

Rev 22:11 :vomit: