toldailytopic: Who is to blame in the Colorado movie theater shooting?

[Rusha]

Conservative answer of who's to blame...

- liberal excuses

What every happened to *personal* responsibility? Had the murderer used a car to mow down several of these people, would you be blaming the car manufacturers?

It could have been much worse ... just imagine if he had used a homemade bomb or barred all the exits and torched the theater.

 

[vegascowboy]

What every happened to *personal* responsibility? Had the murderer used a car to mow down several of these people, would you be blaming the car manufacturers?

It could have been much worse ... just imagine if he had used a homemade bomb or barred all the exits and torched the theater.

Exactly. So often people use tragedy as an excuse to incite an emotional response and pass legislation that would never and could never alter what happened.

Passing a law does not prevent anything for those determined to make it happen.

And it FIRES ME UP when folks tell me that my desire to NOT outlaw firearms is because I have do not care about those that were victims of a crime involving such weapons. It disgusts me.

I am a law-abiding citizen. I own firearms. Outlawing them would only hurt me and my ability to protect my family.

This cowboy, for one, will have to be dead and rotting before he will give up his ability to protect his own children.

 

[This Charming Manc]

OK I was going to leave a decent interval on this incident.

So firstly condolences must go to all the families in Colorado, who have been tragically effected by this incident, and also glad that there is no known connection between the victims and posters on TOL, which has a strong Colorado contingent.

The prime responsibility for this action must lie with the shooter, however I am sure there are secondary reasons which time and reflection may tell helped get this man to this point. However is today really the day to go there ?

What I will say to the NRA guys who have jumped in so quickly is that for those of us who advocate gun control, do not see incidents like this as tools for our cause, they are the reason for our cause.

The aim is simple see less people shot and killed for little or no reason. We may disagree on the law but lets not start demonising each other on the issue, anyway have the best day you can, stay well and I will wade in later on this issue.

 

[Buzzword]

What every happened to *personal* responsibility? Had the murderer used a car to mow down several of these people, would you be blaming the car manufacturers?

Too many people decided they were experts in psychoanalysis because they read a Wikipedia article about Freud.

Or they watch Law and Order and think they are better at understanding the causes of criminal behavior than actual police.

While I'm curious to see how this develops in the coming months, especially as police investigate the guy's booby-trapped home and explore the potential causes for the rampage, it also wouldn't bother me one bit if they saved a lot of time and money and put a bullet in his head this very moment.

 

[vegascowboy]

What I will say to the NRA guys who have jumped in so quickly is that for those of us who advocate gun control, do not see incidents like this as tools for our cause, they are the reason for our cause.

The aim is simple see less people shot and killed for little or no reason. We may disagree on the law but lets not start demonising each other on the issue, anyway have the best day you can, stay well and I will wade in later on this issue.

I suppose I will address this, since it was obviously aimed at me (my own words being used).

I ask again. WHAT LAWS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN PASSED that would have prevented this terrible tragedy?

 

[alwight]

While I am by no means a liberal Knight, a violent culture (i.e. violent movies, video games and violent lyrics in so-called music) begets a violent society.

Keep in mind also that a good portion of America doesn't blink an eye at taking out a unborn baby, so why would murdering a bunch of people in a movie theater bother them?

However if this guy should turn out to be a homosexual then I suspect you at least will have no further need to look for any other possible influences.

 

[Rusha]

Exactly. So often people use tragedy as an excuse to incite an emotional response and pass legislation that would never and could never alter what happened.

Passing a law does not prevent anything for those determined to make it happen.

And it FIRES ME UP when folks tell me that my desire to NOT outlaw firearms is because I have do not care about those that were victims of a crime involving such weapons. It disgusts me.

I am a law-abiding citizen. I own firearms. Outlawing them would only hurt me and my ability to protect my family.

Exactly ...

This cowboy, for one, will have to be dead and rotting before he will give up his ability to protect his own children.

Yep ... it's rather disgusting that anti-gun advocates don't give a rip about the FACT that a ban on firearms would leave law abiding citizens with far less protection against criminals.

 

[vegascowboy]

Yep ... it's rather disgusting that anti-gun advocates don't give a rip about the FACT that a ban on rirearms would leave law abiding citizens with far less protection against criminals.

And folks will delight in bringing up the false numbers of how a ban where they live has prevented or lowered crime specific to firearms. It simply is not true.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I will get back to you decent interval, I am really happy to attack the issue, but not today.

I think we would just wind each other up anyway.

I suppose I will address this, since it was obviously aimed at me (my own words being used).

I ask again. WHAT LAWS COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN PASSED that would have prevented this terrible tragedy?

 

[vegascowboy]

I will get back to you decent interval, I am really happy to attack the issue, but not today.

I think we would just wind each other up anyway.

Fair enough. One day I would love to have a calm and civilized ONE-ON-ONE with you regarding all things to do with firearms and their ownership.

I am not one for calling names without cause, and I will not resort to such. I will be a gentleman, for cowboys are by nature gentlemen.

Would you be willing to entertain such a debate with me?

 

[This Charming Manc]

I'm Not sure on rules on one ones, but I am more than happy to consider it

Fair enough. One day I would love to have a calm and civilized ONE-ON-ONE with you regarding all things to do with firearms and their ownership.

I am not one for calling names without cause, and I will not resort to such. I will be a gentleman, for cowboys are by nature gentlemen.

Would you be willing to entertain such a debate with me?

 

[Buzzword]

I have no problems with gun ownership.
Especially my father-in-law's collection of frontiersman rifles.

What confuses me is how many of the NRA-ish people I've known do not just support a RIGHT to bear arms, but seem to advocate a MANDATE to bear them.

Which, if that advocacy came to fruition, we would see something akin to Frank Miller's Sin City, where law enforcement would become paramilitary due to the necessity of maintaining oversight on a heavily armed population.

 

[vegascowboy]

I'm Not sure on rules on one ones, but I am more than happy to consider it

Neither am I, as I have never participated in one. But I am willing to learn if you are.

 

[vegascowboy]

I have no problems with gun ownership.
Especially my father-in-law's collection of frontiersman rifles.

What confuses me is how many of the NRA-ish people I've known do not just support a RIGHT to bear arms, but seem to advocate a MANDATE to bear them.

Which, if that advocacy came to fruition, we would see something akin to Frank Miller's Sin City, where law enforcement would become paramilitary due to the necessity of maintaining oversight on a heavily armed population.

An armed society is a polite society.

 

[MrDeets]

Exactly. So often people use tragedy as an excuse to incite an emotional response and pass legislation that would never and could never alter what happened.

Passing a law does not prevent anything for those determined to make it happen.

And it FIRES ME UP when folks tell me that my desire to NOT outlaw firearms is because I have do not care about those that were victims of a crime involving such weapons. It disgusts me.

I am a law-abiding citizen. I own firearms. Outlawing them would only hurt me and my ability to protect my family.

This roughneck, for one, will have to be dead and rotting before he will give up his ability to protect his own children.

:thumb: and I changed it so it's true for me as well!

 

[vegascowboy]

:thumb: and I changed it so it's true for me as well!

Roughneck, eh?

 

[MrDeets]

Well, I used to be... :idunno:

 

[vegascowboy]

Well, I used to be... :idunno:

Once a roughneck...

 

[Architect]

The shooter, society, public school systems, maybe bad parenting.......

The shooter is to blame, but Poly is right; especially about the bad parenting IMO...

An armed society is a polite society.

I am not a gun owner. My father is not a gun owner. My wife doesn't like guns, and wouldn't kill a fly if it landed in her soup. I don't have a passion for firearms like you do.

But...

I believe in the power of preventative levels of security. Living in a neighborhood with increased criminal activity (theft), and hearing of horror stories like this one in Colorado, I am realizing how important it is for me now to take advantage of the right I have to bear arms. For Safety.

The first thing I thought of when I heard this story on the news this morning was: "If there had been just 1 person in the audience with a concealed carry license, who is knowledgeable about operating a firearm and knowledgeable about self-defense, some lives could have been saved." A bulletproof vest doesn't protect a person's head.

Josh

 

[vegascowboy]

I believe in the power of preventative levels of security. Living in a neighborhood with increased criminal activity (theft), and hearing of horror stories like this one in Colorado, I am realizing how important it is for me now to take advantage of the right I have to bear arms. For Safety.

This is a good and important reason. I am a gun owner and have been, literally, all my life.

Have I ever used a weapon in self-defense? No, I have not. Would I? Without questions. My children and my family and my OWN safety are important to me. I would do anything for them, and to say that the police are enough of a protection is to be naive at best. This is a good thing that you are thinking along these lines. I hope you make the decision to become informed and invest in a firearm.

The first thing I thought of when I heard this story on the news this morning was: "If there had been just 1 person in the audience with a concealed carry license, who is knowledgeable about operating a firearm and knowledgeable about self-defense, some lives could have been saved."

Yes...and no. The fact is, we cannot know the answer to that. If, however, there was such a person (or persons) as you mention, it could not have hurt and we will never know if it would or would not have helped. In situations such as these, there is always panic and chaos. A person who knows weapons and is familiar with them is trained to sort through the madness and act with level-headed calm in just such a situation. I cannot speak for everyone...not even those who own and carry firearms...but I, for one, take the responsibility very seriously. I practice and I respect my firearms. They are not toys by any means. Used properly, however, they can and do protect innocent people.