toldailytopic: Forced abortion in the United States? How do you feel about this case?

PureX

PureX

Well-known member
Legally, I think the possibility stands.

If I am incapable of making decisions regarding my own body, then someone else will have to. That someone else will be my 'medical power of attorney'. If I am raped, (it would have to be rape because I am incapable of giving consent) and I become pregnant, it will be my medical attorney that must decide for me whether or not to carry the pregnancy to term.

If abortion is a legal option where I live, my medical attorney will have that option available as a choice.

The same is true of the sterilization option. (Too bad someone didn't choose that option before the rape.)
 
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Junius Gallio

Junius Gallio

New member
OK, I've found out some more information.

Elizabeth Elaine Bauer is listed as a minor ward. There is a guardianship hearing coming up--there are no details nor information available on the docket. Jason Guinasso is, indeed, an attorney involved with the case (the article mis-spells the name, and while I am correct that his primary practice is in labor law, he is a representative in this case).

It is posible. However, there are several problems.

1. The hearings are guardianship hearings. Bauer is listed as a "minor ward," which usually means a child under the age of 18, not a mentally handicapped adult.
2. If the account of her mental handicap is accurate, there is no such condition as her having "consensual sex." A person in that condition is not capable of giving consent.
3. If she did, as the article alleges, leave the group home and have sex, then the group home is liable for reckless endangerment. This is a likely source of the guardianship hearing.
4. No filings are available online, so no evidence is available of whether or not there was a request for intervention from county DSS workers, either formally or informally.

So there is some truth to the issue, along with several errors, and several very questionable allegations.

That being said, yes, there may be a case here for Bauer's removal from the group home and placement elsewhere. No, there is utterly no cause for any "state-ordered abortion," unless her health is in immediate danger from the pregnancy.
 
PureX

PureX

Well-known member
Junius Gallio said:
OK, I've found out some more information.

Elizabeth Elaine Bauer is listed as a minor ward. There is a guardianship hearing coming up--there are no details nor information available on the docket. Jason Guinasso is, indeed, an attorney involved with the case (the article mis-spells the name, and while I am correct that his primary practice is in labor law, he is a representative in this case).

It is posible. However, there are several problems.

1. The hearings are guardianship hearings. Bauer is listed as a "minor ward," which usually means a child under the age of 18, not a mentally handicapped adult.
2. If the account of her mental handicap is accurate, there is no such condition as her having "consensual sex." A person in that condition is not capable of giving consent.
3. If she did, as the article alleges, leave the group home and have sex, then the group home is liable for reckless endangerment. This is a likely source of the guardianship hearing.
4. No filings are available online, so no evidence is available of whether or not there was a request for intervention from county DSS workers, either formally or informally.

So there is some truth to the issue, along with several errors, and several very questionable allegations.

That being said, yes, there may be a case here for Bauer's removal from the group home and placement elsewhere. No, there is utterly no cause for any "state-ordered abortion," unless her health is in immediate danger from the pregnancy.
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It seems to me that the question surrounds who is in charge of making medical decisions for this person (presuming that she is not capable of doing so for herself). The cause of the pregnancy, and who is responsible, is a separate issue and would have no bearing on the possibility of an abortion. And the abortion would not be "forced" if the proper proxy consent was given.
 
Junius Gallio

Junius Gallio

New member
PureX said:
It seems to me that the question surrounds who is in charge of making medical decisions for this person (presuming that she is not capable of doing so for herself). The cause of the pregnancy, and who is responsible, is a separate issue and would have no bearing on the possibility of an abortion. And the abortion would not be "forced" if the proper proxy consent was given.
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All correct.

I am now speculating.

It sounds very much like an attempt to try this case in the media. The allegations of "state-sponsored abortion" sounds like nothing more than an attempt to provoke public support in a guardianship case.
 
Eeset

Eeset

.
LIFETIME MEMBER
Let us assume the case is bogus. The question of how I feel about it is still a valid question.
First I would say that I am opposed to any state ordered abortions. That is my opinion and nothing anyone might say will change it.
Second, I think the timing of this news is suspicious. I think it is designed for political impact because it will probably go viral and there is insufficient time for it to be debunked and the effect of the debunking to take hold. Therefore I think it is a blatant attempt to get out the pro life voters. Even if the story is 100% true the situation had to be known weeks ago but the release was timed for maximum political advantage.
 
PureX

PureX

Well-known member
Eeset said:
Let us assume the case is bogus. The question of how I feel about it is still a valid question.
First I would say that I am opposed to any state ordered abortions. That is my opinion and nothing anyone might say will change it.
Second, I think the timing of this news is suspicious. I think it is designed for political impact because it will probably go viral and there is insufficient time for it to be debunked and the effect of the debunking to take hold. Therefore I think it is a blatant attempt to get out the pro life voters. Even if the story is 100% true the situation had to be known weeks ago but the release was timed for maximum political advantage.
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My! You are a suspicious one, aren't you!

Though, sadly, you may be quite correct.
 
aCultureWarrior

aCultureWarrior

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WizardofOz said:
- Elisa wants to carry out her pregnancy
- Her parents/court-approved guardians support her decision
- six qualified couples are eager to adopt Elisa’s child once he or she is born
- the court has no jurisdiction to intervene in any health-related decisions regarding Elisa — pregnancy included — because Elisa’s parents are the legal guardians
- Dr. Michael Czerkes, an OB/GYN at St. Mary’s Regional Medical Center in Lewiston, Maine reviewed all the medical facts and concluded that abortion was neither necessary nor prudent.

There will be no court-ordered abortion

I am a bit skeptical as well. No one is running this unless they're linking back to lifenews.com

Where are the court docs as evidence?
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I know all about guardianships Aaron, I've been a guardian of person on two separate occasions here in WA State. Bottom line is:

A Judge CAN overrule a guardian's decision.

While I haven't investigated the guardianship documents of Washoe County NV, here's their homepage if anyone is interested.
http://www.co.washoe.nv.us/

This statement also concerns me:

"However, when Washoe County Social Services became aware of Elisa’s pregnancy, the department issued an informal report requesting that the Court set a status hearing to address the potential health effects Elisa’s pregnancy could have on her and her unborn child, and possibly override the mutual decision made between Elisa and her parents to have her baby."
http://www.co.washoe.nv.us/socsrv/socsrv_child_cps
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
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Nick M

Nick M

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PureX said:
Legally, I think the possibility stands.

If I am incapable of making decisions regarding my own body, then someone else will have to. That someone else will be my 'medical power of attorney'.
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PureX's evil knows no bounds.
 
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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It would appear that the case of whether or not to force the abortion and sterilization is not before the court because the court has not decided to take the case. According to the story there is a group of people trying to get the court to intervene, which has not yet happened thus no case before the court regarding this decision.:idunno:
 
LKmommy

LKmommy

New member
Knight said:
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 1st, 2012 10:16 AM


toldailytopic: Forced abortion in the United States? How do you feel about this case?




Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.
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SHAME on the Washoe County Department of Social Services....silly DSS....fetus' do not have rights but NEITHER DO YOU to take custody prior to birth NOR the right to demand abortion of that infant!

Washoe County Department of Social Services also does NOT have the right to custody of that child once it is born. If the grandparents are in the home and want the child, willing to raise the child, the birth mom receives disability---the mom also qualifies for Social Services (as do the grandparents if they are legal guardians) such as parenting classes, in home support services, etc.

I personally worked on a case in Adams County in which two borderline mentally retarded adults (living on their own) had children and were able to raise them with in home services AND advocate services for MR/DD in order to SUPPORT those individuals right to LIFE.

Washoe County Department of Social Services what is your agency's mission statement? Do all possible to keep children IN the home NOT demanding the death of a fetus!!
 
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