To Israel and My Fellow Jews around the world from Jacob: What year is it?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Today is Aviv 5.
It is anybody's guess but by my calculations it is year 7951.5 from the creation of Adam.
(Autumnal Equinox 5935 BCE to Vernal Equinox 2018 CE).
Today is Rishon, Aviv 9.
With the Jewish Calendar originating from the Torah or written of or spoken of or about in the Torah, Aviv is the first month.
The first month Aviv Exodus 13:4
4 Today you are going out, in the month of spring.
:ד הַיּ֖וֹם אַתֶּ֣ם יֹֽצְאִ֑ים בְּחֹ֖דֶשׁ הָֽאָבִֽיב
The second month Ziv I Kings 6:1 and 6:37
1 And it was in the four hundred and eightieth year after the departure of the children of Israel from Egypt, in the fourth year, in the month Ziv, which (is) the second month of Solomon's reign over Israel, that he did (begin to) build the house of the Lord.
:א וַיְהִ֣י בִשְׁמוֹנִ֣ים שָׁנָ֣ה וְאַרְבַּ֣ע מֵא֣וֹת שָׁנָ֡ה לְצֵ֣את בְּנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֣ל מֵאֶֽרֶץ־מִצְרַיִם֩ בַּשָּׁנָ֨ה הָרְבִיעִ֜ית בְּחֹ֣דֶשׁ זִ֗ו הוּא הַחֹ֣דֶשׁ הַשֵּׁנִ֔י לִמְלֹ֥ךְ שְׁלֹמֹ֖ה עַל־יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וַיִּ֥בֶן הַבַּ֖יִת לַיהֹוָֽה
37 In the fourth year was the foundation of the house of the Lord laid, in the month of Ziv. :לז בַּשָּׁנָה֙ הָֽרְבִיעִ֔ית יֻסַּ֖ד בֵּ֣ית יְהֹוָ֑ה בְּיֶ֖רַח זִֽו
The third month
The fourth month
The fifth month
The sixth month
The seventh month Eitanim I Kings 8:2
2 And all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto king Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which (is) the seventh month.
:ב וַיִּקָּ֨הֲל֜וּ אֶל־הַמֶּ֚לֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹה֙ כָּל־אִ֣ישׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל בְּיֶ֥רַח הָאֵֽתָנִ֖ים בֶּחָ֑ג ה֖וּא הַחֹ֥דֶשׁ הַשְּׁבִיעִֽי
The eighth month Bul I Kings 6:38
38 And in the eleventh year, in the month Bul, which is the eighth month, the house was finished throughout all the parts thereof, and according to all the fashion of it, and he built it seven years. :לח וּבַשָּׁנָה֩ הָאַחַ֨ת עֶשְׂרֵ֜ה בְּיֶ֣רַח בּ֗וּל הוּא הַחֹ֣דֶשׁ הַשְּׁמִינִ֔י כָּלָ֣ה הַבַּ֔יִת לְכָל־דְּבָרָ֖יו וּלְכָל־מִשְׁפָּטָ֑יו (כתיב מִשְׁפָּטָ֑ו) וַיִבְנֵ֖הוּ שֶׁ֥בַע שָׁנִֽים
The ninth month
The tenth month
The eleventh month
The twelfth month
The first day of the week evening and morning night and day is Rishon meaning First
The second day of the week evening and morning night and day is Sheni meaning Second
The third day of the week evening and morning night and day is Shlishli meaning Third
The fourth day of the week evening and morning night and day is Revi'i meaning Fourth
The fifth day of the week evening and morning night and day is Chamishi meaning Fifth
The sixth day of the week evening and morning night and day is Shishi meaning Sixth
The seventh day of the week night and day is Shabbat the Sabbath
I do not know when the month of Aviv originated except for what the Torah says. Meaning, the Torah says when, however I do know if the month name already existed.
I do not use BCE or CE.
Shalom.
Jacob
Joseph married the daughter of Potiphera the high priest, (Kohen), of On, that is Heliopolis, "the city of the Sun". Pharoah called his name Saphnath-Paneakh which is probably Amenophis as read from right to left, (which would be backwards in Egyptian hieroglyphics, but correct as read in Hebrew, see this article here, although of course I do not agree with the chronology which would place the time of Joseph in the fourteenth century BCE, regardless of whether you like to use BCE or not, it is simply a linguistic tool, label, or terminology, so that we may understand what each of us is talking about). Joseph therefore would have been quite well informed concerning a 365-day calendar from ancient times.
Moses moreover grew up in the house of Pharaoh, under Pharoah's daughter, and he therefore would have been just as well informed if not even more so than Joseph. The equinoxes were and are still to this day marked by the shadows and reflections of the sun produced by the faces of the Great Pyramid, (and even more perfectly in ancient times when it still had its 144,000 highly polished lbanah white limestone casing stones).
However the Egyptians apparently either never realized that the year was 365.242 days, or at least never decided to account for the missing day in their calendar, which full day of course accumulates in four years. But they may not have even cared about this in their calendar, and may rather have preferred to allow the seasons to float through the year as they did, (while observing the heliacal rise of the star Sirius which would have informed them that their year was off by about a quarter day if they had cared to correct their calendar). Either way Moses surely knew of the discrepancy and no doubt understood the length of the year to be at the very least 365 days, (and more likely knew of the quarter day also, by observing the equinox shadows produced by the Great Pyramid).
The difference here is that Abib commences at the Vernal Equinox whereas the Egyptians commenced their year according to the flooding of the Nile no matter what month in which it occurred on their calendar, (the flooding of the Nile occurred at about the same time every year but, as I said, the months of their calendar were allowed to wander through the year: this wandering is called the Sothic Cycle, 1460 years, because they did not correct their calendar every fourth year by adding a leap day, and thus the calendar was only actually correct about every 1460 years as the months wandered full circle back into the correct position).
The command in Exodus 12 is to ignore the commencement of the year according to the Egyptians and to commence the months of the year with Hodesh Abib, ("green ears"), and thus Abib is tied to the Vernal Equinox and not to the cycles of the moon. Moreover much of what you have quoted is highly controversial: some of the passages are the only places where a yerach, (lunar month), is equated to a hodesh, (which is not a lunar month, for example 1Kgs6:38, and 1Kgs8:2 does the same thing with Ethanim, calling it both a yerach and a hodesh, :nono
. Moreover the 1Kgs6:1 passage was quoted by Origen, well before there ever was a Masorete Hebrew Text, and at the time he quoted that passage it said nothing about 480 years: and yet this is the passage that throws off every chronology and beffuddles the brightest minds in this field of study. :chuckle:
I did take Astronomy in High School. However, I do not know that I can corroborate your claim.Joseph married the daughter of Potiphera the high priest, (Kohen), of On, that is Heliopolis, "the city of the Sun". Pharoah called his name Saphnath-Paneakh which is probably Amenophis as read from right to left, (which would be backwards in Egyptian hieroglyphics, but correct as read in Hebrew, see this article here, although of course I do not agree with the chronology which would place the time of Joseph in the fourteenth century BCE, regardless of whether you like to use BCE or not, it is simply a linguistic tool, label, or terminology, so that we may understand what each of us is talking about). Joseph therefore would have been quite well informed concerning a 365-day calendar from ancient times.
Moses moreover grew up in the house of Pharaoh, under Pharoah's daughter, and he therefore would have been just as well informed if not even more so than Joseph. The equinoxes were and are still to this day marked by the shadows and reflections of the sun produced by the faces of the Great Pyramid, (and even more perfectly in ancient times when it still had its 144,000 highly polished lbanah white limestone casing stones).
However the Egyptians apparently either never realized that the year was 365.242 days, or at least never decided to account for the missing day in their calendar, which full day of course accumulates in four years. But they may not have even cared about this in their calendar, and may rather have preferred to allow the seasons to float through the year as they did, (while observing the heliacal rise of the star Sirius which would have informed them that their year was off by about a quarter day if they had cared to correct their calendar). Either way Moses surely knew of the discrepancy and no doubt understood the length of the year to be at the very least 365 days, (and more likely knew of the quarter day also, by observing the equinox shadows produced by the Great Pyramid).
The difference here is that Abib commences at the Vernal Equinox whereas the Egyptians commenced their year according to the flooding of the Nile no matter what month in which it occurred on their calendar, (the flooding of the Nile occurred at about the same time every year but, as I said, the months of their calendar were allowed to wander through the year: this wandering is called the Sothic Cycle, 1460 years, because they did not correct their calendar every fourth year by adding a leap day, and thus the calendar was only actually correct about every 1460 years as the months wandered full circle back into the correct position).
The command in Exodus 12 is to ignore the commencement of the year according to the Egyptians and to commence the months of the year with Hodesh Abib, ("green ears"), and thus Abib is tied to the Vernal Equinox and not to the cycles of the moon. Moreover much of what you have quoted is highly controversial: some of the passages are the only places where a yerach, (lunar month), is equated to a hodesh, (which is not a lunar month, for example 1Kgs6:38, and 1Kgs8:2 does the same thing with Ethanim, calling it both a yerach and a hodesh, :nono
You say Abib instead of agreeing when I said Aviv. There is a Bet and a Vet in Hebrew. They look similar or alike but the Bet has a dot or dagesh in it or in the middle of it. Bet is the second letter of the Hebrew Aleph-Bet. But it is the Vet that does not have the Dagesh.
I do not follow the solar calendar (edit, or the solar year). Or, I do not follow or observe a solar calendar.
I do not know what to do with your reference to a Vernal Equinox.
The dagesh and dots are, again, as mentioned before elsewhere, Masoretic Hebrew pointing which has been added to the original Hebrew text. Abib is aleph-bet-yod-bet without the added pointing. However that is much like you saying you do not use CE or BCE, which is really inconsequential, and neither here nor there in the overall scheme of things. It is like arguing over Shabbat and Shabbos.
As for the calendar of course the modern Jewish Calendar is also tied to the equinox in a roundabout way, because it is tied to the solar year, even though it is calculated with respect to lunar cycles also, (a true luni-solar calendar).
I believe that you are saying that a Bet may or may not have a Dagesh. Do you then not have the letter Vet?
I cannot agree to what you are saying regarding the Jewish Calendar. Begin with the Torah. That is my recommendation. I do not see it as solar, lunar, or luni-solar. Rosh Chodesh means Head of the Month and it is by observation or calculation, as it is determined if possible by the sighting of the New Moon and not the Astronomical New Moon. This observation involves witnesses and according to my understanding this occurred during temple times. A month is 29 days unless it is 30 days. There is much that goes into this.
Shalom.
Jacob
Whether you want to agree or not the modern Jewish Calendar is a lunisolar calendar; and this is a well known fact which is freely admitted without excuse, or any reason for excuse, by most everyone who observes it. Denying the reality only makes the things you say all the more unbelievable and difficult to accept as having any basis in reality, (because, well, you deny reality, lol). Why would anyone want to deny reality when it is plain as day for everyone else to see? These things can be looked up and searched online or, if you are afraid some hooligan on the internet will deceive you about the modern Jewish lunisolar calendar, you can also go to your local library find out there.
As for what goes into the way you have chosen to calculate months I am well aware of most all those things and that calendar: but since you say, "begin with the Torah", and since I did and have, please show me in the Torah where it is commanded to calculate and commence a month according to the sighting of the moon. Where is it commanded to go out and watch for the first sliver of the black moon so as to commence a calendar month?
I observe the Jewish, Hebrew, Torah, and Biblical Calendar and Month. I would like to read the Torah in Hebrew but I can say that I do not recall anything from the English. I do not know either what you mean by calculate or commence. I think you mean when does the month begin. If you know of anything from the Torah we should identify it by reference at a minimum. Certainly you know of Rosh Chodesh. The problem with a lunisolar calendar is that it has aspects that are lunar and solar.
That is the reason why the Jewish Calendar is a lunisolar calendar: because it adds a leap month seven times in nineteen years to keep the first month at the proper time of the year in the spring. There is no way to do that by observing a strictly lunar calendar because the lunar year consists on average of only 354 days. If the modern Jewish Calendar was strictly a lunar calendar the Passover would be out of season and would float through the year just as I was saying about the months on the ancient Egyptian calendar. You would eventually end up with the Passover falling in winter, then autumn, then summer, then back to spring again as the months cycle through the year. That is also why I said that the Jewish Calendar is also, in a round about way, tied to the Vernal or Spring Equinox. This is accomplished by the leap month, (Adar 2), which is added seven times in a nineteen year cycle of the moon.
I have said that we are in the month of Aviv. It is the first month. I asked my Rabbi. This year is not a leap year.
Again, I do not know how to comment on the Vernal or Spring Equinox. These are not a part of my vocabulary. I do not see any lunar months cycling through a solar year.
Lol, you do not see any months cycling through the year because you are observing a lunisolar calendar which makes corrections to avoid the problem of the months wandering or cycling through the year, (I only said that about your lunisolar calendar because it is not an issue on a strictly solar calendar). That is why I said you are denying reality. You are essentially saying that you do not like your lunisolar calendar being called a lunisolar calendar. When the modern Jewish Calendar adds a leap month, (Adar 2), it is specifically done so that the months, (and the feasts and festivals), do not end up drifting through the year: so you do not end up with Passover in the winter, or autumn, or summer, and so on. Anyways, have a nice thread. :wave2:
I observe the Torah. I do not know what you are talking about. The first month is the month of Aviv. I do not know why you are talking about a modern Jewish Calendar.
Why do you suppose I said have a nice thread? I also observe the Torah and yet I do not know what you are talking about or where you actually got your information from. :chuckle:
I asked a question. Now you want me to provide the answer. I do not know what year it is. That may be because observing Torah and a Torah based Calendar and or the first month being (the month of) Aviv according to Torah does not necessitate knowing or having knowledge of what year it is. If you want me to provide you with information from the Torah that helps you to answer any question about what I have said or what I am asking all you have to do is ask. Otherwise, I report what I know as I know it.
Shalom.
Jacob