ECT "Things that are different" included Gentiles

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I believe that at that point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside.

If so, why did the following prophecy against Israel take place 40 years later?

(Luke 19:43-44) The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.

IOW, how could Israel be set aside (like you claim), but then have a prophecy fulfilled against it just 40 years later?
 

Danoh

New member
From Strongs:

Word: Israhl

Pronounce: is-rah-ale'

Strongs Number: G2474

Orig: of Hebrew origin H3478 ; Israel (i.e. Jisrael), the adopted name of Jacob, including his descendants (literally or figuratively):--Israel. H3478

Use: TDNT-3:356,372 Adjective

Heb Strong: H3478

Lol - put away YOUR books based hybrid version of things.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance,

That's not true.

Again, Jesus made it clear while He was still alive, that the city of Jerusalem would be destroyed, and that the unbelieving Jews would suffer greatly. Which is exactly what took place in 70AD.

You want us to believe that the unbelieving Jews could have prevented what Jesus said was going to take place.

Don't you see the problem this causes for your theory?
 

Danoh

New member
If so, why did the following prophecy against Israel take place 40 years later?

(Luke 19:43-44) The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.

IOW, how could Israel be set aside (like you claim), but then have a prophecy fulfilled against it just 40 years later?

Very simple, a foretelling concerning some event in the future does not require intervention at said later date for it to come to pass.

But that is you reading your error that the Lord returned in 70AD into said later date.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Lol - put away YOUR books based hybrid version of things.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

There was no nation called Israel in the first century.

There was a Roman Province called Judaea that was made up of mostly what used to be the nation called Israel, but there was not a nation called Israel in the first century.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Very simple, a foretelling concerning some event in the future does not require intervention at said later date for it to come to pass.

But that is you reading your error that the Lord returned in 70AD into said later date.

No matter how hard you Dispies try, there was no setting aside of Israel in the first century (the nation didn't exist), there was no "prophetic clock" that stopped for Israel, and there was no opportunity for a "national repentance" after the cross for Israel in the first century.

These are all false theories made up in order to try and make the Bible fit Dispensationalism.

The events of 70AD, combined with the prophecies by Christ Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John as to what took place in 70AD prove all the Dispy theories wrong.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
"Things that are different are not the same" goes for the Gentiles to whom Paul was first sent and those to whom he was later sent. Yes, those to whom Paul was first sent became members of the one Body with the Gentiles to whom he was later sent, but some Gentiles (called Greeks in a KJB) got to hear the gospel of Christ preached to them because they were found in the synagogue of the Jews fearing God (Acts 13:16 KJV, Acts 13:26 KJV) and seeking a blessing according to the promise of Genesis 12:3 KJV (Galatians 3:29 KJV). No, they did not know that their blessing would come in the form of a mystery/the preaching of the forgiveness of sins (Acts 13:38-39 KJV)/ that Christ died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day for their justification(Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Romans 16:25-27 KJV. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).


We can try all day long, but we cannot say the same thing about the Ephesian Gentiles to whom Paul wrote the letter. The "you Gentiles" that Paul became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for (Ephesians 3:1 KJV) in time past were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. These Gentiles were not found fearing God and seeking a blessing through Israel! They were worshiping the goddess Diana as late as Acts 19 (Acts 19:28 KJV)!

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


We, by extension are just like these Gentiles (like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter) as we didn't have anything to do with Israel! There was no Israel by the time we came around!
This is where we fit in to God's mystery plan, beloved! It was unsearchable/hid in God that we should be fellowheirs with them and of the same Body beginning with Paul (on the same ship/the fellowship of the mystery) and partakers of God's promise in Christ BY THE GOSPEL (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) until the dispensation of the grace of God was given by God to Paul to usward!


Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Clearly, Gentiles are different than Judeans.

How does anyone receive the gift of salvation, that is, in this age of grace?

Anyone, being early Gentiles, later Gentiles, Israel who followed Jesus Christ, Israel who later believed.

Romans 10:9 tells us how to become saved, to receive the gift of salvation.

Confess with your mouth the lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

That Jesus is lord and that God raised him from the dead is information that could have and was known by some even before the ascension and most certainly on the day of Pentecost by those who cared to know.

The same two requirements apply to whosoever.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Answer Jerry, and my question, clown:


What gospel did the Twelve preach at Luke 9:6? At that time they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34).

If you Darby Followers understood the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, when the NC was put in place, and when the OC came to an end, you guys wouldn't be so confused, and have multiple gospels.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
There was no nation called Israel in the first century.

There was a Roman Province called Judaea that was made up of mostly what used to be the nation called Israel, but there was not a nation called Israel in the first century.

Your myopic obsession has driven you to absurdities.


Mat_8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat_10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Luk_1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
You want us to believe that the unbelieving Jews could have prevented what Jesus said was going to take place.

Don't you see the problem this causes for your theory?

I never said that unbelieving Jews could have prevented anything. If Israel had of repented then the kingdom program would have still been in view:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you"
(Acts.3:19-20).​

And I still await your answer as to what was said when the Twelve preached a gospel at Luke 9:6.
 

Danoh

New member
No matter how hard you Dispies try, there was no setting aside of Israel in the first century (the nation didn't exist), there was no "prophetic clock" that stopped for Israel, and there was no opportunity for a "national repentance" after the cross for Israel in the first century.

These are all false theories made up in order to try and make the Bible fit Dispensationalism.

The events of 70AD, combined with the prophecies by Christ Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John as to what took place in 70AD prove all the Dispy theories wrong.

Nope. Those are your theories.

Including your theory that the Dispy needs to force one thing into another.

Ironic, given that that is exactly how the Reformed School that Preterism is an offshoot of, came about - allegorize until the literal appears to make sense.

That, coupled with moving the literal around until it makes sense.

I don't see that as having been so much the result of some sort of an intended dishonesty on the part of its' earlier pioneers going in, but more as the result of a sincere, but nevertheless incompetent attempt at sorting such things out.

An incompetence you add further to as your contribution by your ever insistent needing to assert the Dispy is up to no good, going in.

Your continued insistence on that no matter how often you have been told that is not the case, only proves you are up to no good going in.

Apparantly you like being viewed as such.

It is what it is.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
If Israel was a nation in the first century who was the king?

Luk_23:2 And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
Joh_11:48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
Joh_11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
Joh_11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;


It appears that you place yourself outside of Scriptural definitions.

The Lord Jesus was and is the rightful King and He was there in their midst, but rejected.
They said, "We will not have this man to rule over us."
But in Scripture, they were still called a nation.
 

Danoh

New member
If you Darby Followers understood the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, when the NC was put in place, and when the OC came to an end, you guys wouldn't be so confused, and have multiple gospels.

Better Darby than Russell :chuckle:
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
From Strongs:

Word: Israhl

Pronounce: is-rah-ale'

Strongs Number: G2474

Orig: of Hebrew origin H3478 ; Israel (i.e. Jisrael), the adopted name of Jacob, including his descendants (literally or figuratively):--Israel. H3478

Use: TDNT-3:356,372 Adjective

Heb Strong: H3478

John 3 KJV
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:3 KJV....Strong's numbers indicating the Greek words:

Jesus <2424> answered <611> (5662) and <2532> said <2036> (5627) unto him <846>, Verily <281>, verily <281>, I say <3004> (5719) unto thee <4671>, Except <3362> a man <5100> be born <1080> (5686) again <509>, he cannot <1410> (5736) <3756> see <1492> (5629) the kingdom <932> of God <2316>.


I translate it as follows, employing Strong's::

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from the first he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.


Nuttin' to this Strong's/"The Greek" game, Craigie.


Fraud.
 

Danoh

New member
Luk_23:2 And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
Joh_11:48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
Joh_11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
Joh_11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;


It appears that you place yourself outside of Scriptural definitions.

The Lord Jesus was and is the rightful King and He was there in their midst, but rejected.
They said, "We will not have this man to rule over us."
But in Scripture, they were still called a nation.

He is too entrenched in the reasoning of his theologically biased history books as "Bible study."
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I never said that unbelieving Jews could have prevented anything. If Israel had of repented then the kingdom program would have still been in view:

If not unbelieving Jews, then who?

And I still await your answer as to what was said when the Twelve preached a gospel at Luke 9:6.

I answered, here is what I said:

"If you Darby Followers understood the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, when the NC was put in place, and when the OC came to an end, you guys wouldn't be so confused, and have multiple gospels."
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
If you Darby Followers understood the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, when the NC was put in place, and when the OC came to an end, you guys wouldn't be so confused, and have multiple gospels.
Did the punk answer the question? Nope. Just his Darby "Hail Mary," spam, evading the issue, his own "argument:"

Answer, punk:

What gospel did the Twelve preach at Luke 9:6? At that time they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34).


Not a peep. The unemployed punk "suffers another death knell!"

You taught us that, loser.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar,


If Israel was a nation in the first century (your claim), then why would the leaders be upset about forbidding to give tribute to Caesar?

It appears that you place yourself outside of Scriptural definitions.

Until you understand that all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews, you will never understand the scriptural definitions.

The Lord Jesus was and is the rightful King and He was there in their midst, but rejected.

Who was the king of Israel the year before Jesus was born?

But in Scripture, they were still called a nation.

Louis Farrakhan is the leader of The Nation of Islam....that doesn't mean "Islam" is a nation.
 
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