ECT "Things that are different" included Gentiles

Danoh

New member
Bullinger is the grandaddy of Ultradispensationalism, also known as Hyperdispensationalism. What heir and STP post is rooted in Bullinger.



You just proved my point.

"Acts 9/28 Hybrid Theology" is a good description of heir's posts.

Hah - obviously you did not read that well laid out 60 page point by point report on that link.

And only some on here, but not all, hold her skewed version of MAD.

Further; Bullinger was not even the grandaddy of what came to be known as Bullingerism.

There were two people before him; the latter of the two talked a then very old Bullinger out of his then Mid-Acts position, into the Acts 28 view.

Get your facts straight.

You'd want the same towards your views.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Tell us , with a straight face, that Peter was saved by believing the gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, the DBR, when he tried to prevent the Master's death, and initially denied the resurrection.

Peter was saved by his faith in Christ Jesus.

(2 Peter 1:1) Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
 

Danoh

New member
There was no fall of Israel in the first century, nor was Israel set aside in the first century.

I say it that way; well aware that unbelieving Israel had actually fallen many centuries earlier.

But the Lord had prayed for their foregiveness on the Cross and the Spirit had for a time offered them the opportunity to believe that He had been their Messiah; which offer they sent back there answer to by murdering Stephen.

I see that as their having continued in their forefather's Uncircumcision.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

They were now permanently Uncircumcision...

Romans 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Didn't Jerusalem, the Capital, fall in 70 AD?

That was Judaea, not Israel.

Just trying to understand your train of thought.

If Israel existed in the first century, then why did the Disciples ask the following:

(Acts 1:6) Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
 

Danoh

New member
Peter was saved by his faith in Christ Jesus.

(2 Peter 1:1) Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Yep.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Who were some of said as many of His own as had received Him (believed on His Name) and whom He then gave the power to become sons of God?

1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Though, obviously, you and I are miles apart on much.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I say it that way; well aware that unbelieving Israel had actually fallen many centuries earlier.

Partially correct.

The nation of Israel divided into two nations (Israel and Judah).

Unbelieving Israel fell (the 10 tribes). God divorced them, cast them away, scattered them, etc.

Later, the Jews from Judah were taken captive for 70 years, but then were allowed to return, they remained there until 70AD.

But the Lord had prayed for their foregiveness on the Cross and the Spirit had for a time offered them the opportunity to believe that He had been their Messiah; which offer they sent back there answer to by murdering Stephen.

I disagree. Jesus made it clear that their city would be destroyed. Jesus gave details for when they were to flee Jerusalem to avoid the destruction.

I see that as their having continued in their forefather's Uncircumcision.

Who is "their"? The Jews or the Israelites from the 10 tribes?

They were now permanently Uncircumcision...

No, the Jews were always the Circumcised. It was the Israelites from the 10 tribes who became the Uncircumcised in 722BC.
 

Danoh

New member
That was Judaea, not Israel.



If Israel existed in the first century, then why did the Disciples ask the following:

(Acts 1:6) Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

Then why did He refer to Nathaniel as an Israelite indeed?

Then why did Paul refer to himself as an Israelite; of the seed of Abraham; of the Tribe of Benjamin?

Then why did James write to the Twelve Tribes which are scattered abroad?

Then why do we read...

Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

Matthew 2:21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

(And nope; no land of Israel is ever mentioned in the NT :doh:)

Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Matthew 9:33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Luke 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Luke 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Luke 1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Then why did He refer to Nathaniel as an Israelite indeed?

After Israel fell in 722BC, there were still Israelites afterwards.

However the Israelites from the 10 tribes lived as foreigners.

It's very tricky because all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. Paul was an Israelite.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Trick question....there never was two different gospels.

What gospel did the Twelve preach at Luke 9:6? At that time they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34).

Did Gentile kingdom believers switch over to become Gentile body believers?

They were saved when they believed the gospel of the kingdom. And if Israel had of repented then they would have entered into the earthly kingdom when the lord Jesus returned to the earth. Since Israel did not repent the earthly kingdom has been postponed until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth.

So the Gentiles who were saved by believing the gospel of the kingdom were then baptized into the Body of Christ by One Spirit.
 

Danoh

New member
What gospel did the Twelve preach at Luke 9:6? At that time they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34).



They were saved when they believed the gospel of the kingdom. And if Israel had of repented then they would have entered into the earthly kingdom when the lord Jesus returned to the earth. Since Israel did not repent the earthly kingdom has been postponed until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth.

So the Gentiles who were saved by believing the gospel of the kingdom were then baptized into the Body of Christ by One Spirit.

That is your reading into things.

Each have their own purpose, destiny, etc.

No need for Paul, were your conclusion sound.
 

Danoh

New member
After Israel fell in 722BC, there were still Israelites afterwards.

However the Israelites from the 10 tribes lived as foreigners.

It's very tricky because all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. Paul was an Israelite.

Those passages I cited contradict your obviously theologically biased history books.

Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
It's embarrassing that....

Pure craziness.


Vs.

"We now live in a new heaven and a new earth. .... we now live in the new heavens and new earth...Yes, we are living in the millennial reign right now.....we now live in the greatest time period since the creation of planet earth....The kingdom where there is no more death, tears, and sadness exists right now".-Corkie the Clown Craigie Tet.

Flap them big shoes, AD 70-ism/Preterist clown
 

Jerry Shugart

New member

I believe that this happened when Stephen was stoned at Acts 7. In The Berean Searchlight Win Johnson wrote:

"Matthew 12:31,32 states: 'Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], neither in the world to come.'

"These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34).

"But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, 'full of the Holy Ghost' (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the 'unpardonable sin' was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven"
(Win Johnson, "The Unpardonable Sin," The Berean Searchlight, Feb.2001, p.6).​

The "unpardonable sin" was committed at Acts 7, and I believe that at that point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside. I believe that at that time the Holy Spirit baptized all believers into the Church, which is His Body.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Those passages I cited contradict your obviously theologically biased history books.

Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

From Strongs:

Word: Israhl

Pronounce: is-rah-ale'

Strongs Number: G2474

Orig: of Hebrew origin H3478 ; Israel (i.e. Jisrael), the adopted name of Jacob, including his descendants (literally or figuratively):--Israel. H3478

Use: TDNT-3:356,372 Adjective

Heb Strong: H3478
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Peter was saved by his faith in Christ Jesus.

(2 Peter 1:1) Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

I did not ask that. You argued, punk:
there never was two different gospels.


Now, punk, tell us , with a straight face, that Peter was saved by believing the gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, the DBR, when he tried to prevent the Master's death, and initially denied the resurrection. The DBR was hid from the 12, prior to its occurrence.


When was Peter saved, Craigie? Show us that he believed in....


Death
Burial
Resurrection....


..The foundation of the gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.


Go ahead, one spam/trick pony, one verse isolationist-lay it out for us. Explain, instead of spamming, from your AD 70-ism/Preterist articles.

Peter attempted to prevent the Master's death, the very death, that was the basis of his reconcilliation, initially denied the resurrection, and the DBR was hid from him, prior to its occurrence. Tell us, show, all of TOL, how he could have believed the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel, to be saved.


Go ahead, punk-you have the floor.


You won't.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
From Strongs:

Word: Israhl

Pronounce: is-rah-ale'

Strongs Number: G2474

Orig: of Hebrew origin H3478 ; Israel (i.e. Jisrael), the adopted name of Jacob, including his descendants (literally or figuratively):--Israel. H3478

Use: TDNT-3:356,372 Adjective

Heb Strong: H3478

Plagiarism. Why do you follow the teachings of men, Craigie?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Trick question....there never was two different gospels.

Those who believed in Christ Jesus are in one body...that includes the Jews in the days of Jesus, everyone in between, and up to the person who was saved a minute ago.

Show us that Peter believed 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, in Matthew-John, prior to the prophetic fulfillment of the DBR.



When was Peter saved, Craigie?
 
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