The Yahweh Name

oatmeal

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Which is why you are and remain on ignore. You are much too ensnared to even be able to discuss truth rationally. John 20:28 PROVES deity and you are left wanting with literally nothing but excusing platitudes. It says what it says. It IS this clear.
John 20:28

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

no more proves deity than

Exodus 7:1 does

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

If Thomas speaking proves that Jesus is God, how much more does God speaking prove that Moses is God!!
 

JudgeRightly

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John 20:28

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

no more proves deity

Was Thomas committing idolatry by calling Jesus His God? Or was Jesus God and Thomas was recognizing Him as such?

Those are the only two possibilities.

than

Exodus 7:1 does

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

If Thomas speaking proves that Jesus is God, how much more does God speaking prove that Moses is God!!

Repeating an argument that has already been dismantled doesn't furthur your position.

Again:

Exodus 7:1 is NOT saying that Moses was made God, or made a god.

It says that Moses was made AS as God TO PHARAOH. It's called a simile, a figure of speech. It's not meant to be taken literally.
 
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Omniskeptical

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John 20:28 και απεκριθη ο θωμας και ειπεν αυτω ο κυριος μου, και ο θεος μου.

Just this clear. In Greek, it looks EXACTLY like this, to you.
Of course it does. Notice the 2 nominatives which demand a verb of the one stuttering. Both God and Lord are mentioned separately and not linked.
 
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TrevorL

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Greetings again Lon,
There is only one, begotten.
Yes Jesus is the only begotten of the Father because the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is his father and Mary is his mother.
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg Greek begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


Great! I agree! Do you grasp that?
Yes Jesus is The Son of God because of this begettal.
Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Lon

Well-known member
Greetings again Lon,

Yes Jesus is the only begotten of the Father because the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is his father and Mary is his mother.
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg Greek begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.



Yes Jesus is The Son of God because of this begettal.
Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
And the offspring, of a God (the only one) is what? The exact representation? Hebrews 1:3 🤔 What is an "EXACT" representation to you? The 'exact same thing?' Hope you are still thinking and into thinking. If so, you'll be triune with the rest of us, because it is the only way to reconcile all these ideas. The rest trample all over and don't bother to even try to reconcile scriptures.
 

TrevorL

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Greetings again Lon,
And the offspring, of a God (the only one) is what? The exact representation?
Yes, Jesus was full of grace and truth, but this was developed from a child and fully revealed at the start of his ministry John 1:14. Jesus is the Son of God, and God is His Father 2 Samuel 7:14.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

JudgeRightly

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Of course it does.

Someone isn't paying attention...

Notice the 2 nominatives which demand a verb the one stuttering. Both God and Lord are mentioned separately and not linked.

"The Lord of me, and the God of me."

Was Thomas committing idolatry by calling Jesus His God? Or was Jesus God and Thomas was recognizing Him as such?

Those are the only two possibilities.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Was Thomas committing idolatry by calling Jesus His God? Or was Jesus God and Thomas was recognizing Him as such?

Those are the only two possibilities.



Repeating an argument that has already been dismantled doesn't furthur your position.

Again:

Exodus 7:1 is NOT saying that Moses was made God, or made a god.

It says that Moses was made AS as God TO PHARAOH. It's called a simile, a figure of speech. It's not meant to be taken literally.
No one has ever dismantled the scripture I provided.

People might try but God knows who He made to be god and unbelief does not change that truth that God made Moses to be a god.

If people are willing to believe Thomas' declaration, surely people would believe God's declaration!
 

JudgeRightly

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No one has ever dismantled the scripture I provided.

People might try but God knows who He made to be god and unbelief does not change that truth that God made Moses to be a god.

You're in denial.

Moses was not made God.

He was made AS God TO PHARAOH.

That's what the Bible says.

If people are willing to believe Thomas' declaration, surely people would believe God's declaration!

Thomas said: "The Lord of me, and the God of me."

Answer the question:
Was Thomas committing idolatry by calling Jesus his God? Or was Jesus God and Thomas was recognizing Him as such?

Those are the only two possibilities.
 

JudgeRightly

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Well, you have a right to have an opinion, but opinions do not change truth

1) You should look in a mirror when you say that.
2) who do you think is speaking in Revelation 21:7?
 

Right Divider

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Greetings again Lon,

Yes, Jesus was full of grace and truth, but this was developed from a child and fully revealed at the start of his ministry John 1:14. Jesus is the Son of God, and God is His Father 2 Samuel 7:14.

Kind regards
Trevor
You simply focus on what you want and ignore the rest. Jesus was GOD before He took on human flesh.
Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Christ had glory with God long before He took on human flesh.
Joh 5:22-23 KJV For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
  1. If you think that God is committing "all judgement" to "just a man"... you have a false "god".
  2. It is not possible to honor "just a man" as one honors God.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Greetings again Lon,

Yes, Jesus was full of grace and truth, but this was developed from a child and fully revealed at the start of his ministry John 1:14. Jesus is the Son of God, and God is His Father 2 Samuel 7:14.

Kind regards
Trevor
As to his humanity, of course, but above, as to God, you said 'yes.' Welcome to the Triune view. Love to see you on the right path. Yes means yes.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Well, you have a right to have an opinion, but opinions do not change truth
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
🤔
 

Lon

Well-known member
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
🤔
No one has ever dismantled the scripture I provided.
Don't desire to do so. Elohim doesn't mean YHWH. Though Elohim most often means God alone, it is broad in meaning. The Greek word is not. It leaves you, frankly, special pleading one unrelated passage to another simply because of a thought in your head. As 'brilliant' as you think you are, the idea here, from your head (and the head of all Unitarians) is completely assailable.
People might try but God knows who He made to be god and unbelief does not change that truth that God made Moses to be a god.
ESPECIALLY when I've proved above, it is from your own head and not scripture. YOU made a connection. YOU did. I simply read each separate, AS THEY APPEAR IN SCRIPTURE. YOU placed them together. YOU did. That is completely assailable.
If people are willing to believe Thomas' declaration, surely people would believe God's declaration!
One has naught to do with the other, as I've shown. YOU placed them together. YOU did. From YOUR head. They are not portrayed together in scripture. YOU are responsible for what you choose to believe from your own head. It is literally why every cult member runs to another scripture instead of dealing with the one an orthodox Christian brings to the table. Why? Listen, please: BECAUSE IT IS FROM YOUR OWN HEAD!!! Do you grasp this? The only connection isn't in scripture, they are separate in scripture. They are connected IN YOUR HEAD.
 

Omniskeptical

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Someone isn't paying attention...



"The Lord of me, and the God of me."

Was Thomas committing idolatry by calling Jesus His God? Or was Jesus God and Thomas was recognizing Him as such?

Those are the only two possibilities.
There is the possibility that he is talking about 2 different things.
 

JudgeRightly

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There is the possibility that he is talking about 2 different things.

Because you say so?

Thomas said: "The Lord of me, and the God of me."

Answer the question:
Was Thomas committing idolatry by calling Jesus his God? Or was Jesus God and Thomas was recognizing Him as such?

Those are the only two possibilities.
 
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