ECT The whole Tribulation period is the wrath of God

[steko]

Where in the Bible do we find this 2,000 year (and still counting) delay?

Also, what was the reason for this alleged delay?

The basis for the delay is right here:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Only GOD knows the duration.

 

[tetelestai]

Only GOD knows the duration.

Yes, but Jesus made it crystal clear He would return before His contemporaries all passed away.

Which is why James said the following:

(James 5:8) You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.

As did Peter:

(1 Peter 4:7) The end of all things is near. ..

As did Paul:

(Phil 4:5) Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

As did John:

(1 John 2:18) ..This is how we know it is the last hour.

As did the writer of Hebrews:

(Heb 1:2) but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son...

 

[steko]

Yes, but Jesus made it crystal clear He would return before His contemporaries all passed away.

Which is why James said the following:

(James 5:8) You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.

As did Peter:

(1 Peter 4:7) The end of all things is near. ..

As did Paul:

(Phil 4:5) Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

As did John:

(1 John 2:18) ..This is how we know it is the last hour.

As did the writer of Hebrews:

(Heb 1:2) but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son...

None of the prophets, the twelve or Paul had exhaustive knowledge of the future.
It's obvious that they understood in part and were expecting the Lord's soon return. However.....He did not return. Christians in any age should expect and love His appearing. I do!

 

[tetelestai]

None of the prophets, the twelve or Paul had exhaustive knowledge of the future.

The 12 and Paul knew that Jesus said He would return before "this generation" passed away.

The 12 and Paul knew that Jesus said some would not taste death until He returned.

Which is why Paul said the following:

(1 Cor 10:11) These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.

You can't have it both ways steko.

You can't claim Jesus personally taught Paul, and then on the other hand claim Paul was ignorant to when Jesus would return, especially after Jesus made it clear that He would return before His contemporaries all passed away.

 

[tetelestai]

None of the prophets, the twelve or Paul had exhaustive knowledge of the future.

Not true steko.

Daniel was told to seal his scroll until THE TIME OF THE END.

John was told NOT to seal his scroll because THE TIME WAS NEAR.

 

[steko]

The 12 and Paul knew that Jesus said He would return before "this generation" passed away.

The 12 and Paul knew that Jesus said some would not taste death until He returned.

Which is why Paul said the following:

(1 Cor 10:11) These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.

You can't have it both ways steko.

You can't claim Jesus personally taught Paul, and then on the other hand claim Paul was ignorant to when Jesus would return, especially after Jesus made it clear that He would return before His contemporaries all passed away.

You can't.

 

[steko]

Not true steko.

Daniel was told to seal his scroll until THE TIME OF THE END.

John was told NOT to seal his scroll because THE TIME WAS NEAR.

Still, not exhaustive knowledge.

There are conditions to be met for prophecy to unfold.

 

[Interplanner]

WonderfulLJ wrote:
The whole period of time much involves the Lord resuming His program with Israel, putting down Israel's enemies and bringing the promised kingdom of heaven rule to Israel, the millennium,

There is nothing clearly scriptural about any of the pieces you mentioned here.

There is nothing in the NT about resuming a program. Rom 11:30: all dealings with humankind are through the Gospel event. There are no more geo-political incidents nor do their need to be: there is nothing in the NT that shows any concern about the land per se (they do show concern that Israel might self-destruct in the revolt).

 

[tetelestai]

You can't.

You're trying to make Paul, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews look stupid.

They all were in agreement that the last days were during their lifetimes (the first century).

You guys claim to be followers of Paul, you guys go on and on about how Paul was personally taught by Christ Jesus, but then you make Paul out to be an idiot.

Paul wasn't an idiot. Paul knew he was living in the culmination of the ages.

Paul also said the following:

(Phil 4:5) The Lord is near.

(1 Cor 7:29) ...the time is short

(1 Cor 7:31) ...the fashion of this world passeth away

(Rom 13:11) The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed....

(Rom 16:20) The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet....

You want us to believe that Paul had no idea what he was talking about.

Paul knew exactly what he was talking about. Paul knew he and his contemporaries were living during the culmination of the ages.

As did James, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews.

 

[steko]

You're trying to make Paul, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews look stupid.

They all were in agreement that the last days were during their lifetimes (the first century).

You guys claim to be followers of Paul, you guys go on and on about how Paul was personally taught by Christ Jesus, but then you make Paul out to be an idiot.

Paul wasn't an idiot. Paul knew he was living in the culmination of the ages.

Paul also said the following:

(Phil 4:5) The Lord is near.

(1 Cor 7:29) ...the time is short

(1 Cor 7:31) ...the fashion of this world passeth away

(Rom 13:11) The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed....

(Rom 16:20) The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet....

You want us to believe that Paul had no idea what he was talking about.

Paul knew exactly what he was talking about. Paul knew he and his contemporaries were living during the culmination of the ages.

As did James, Peter, John, and the writer of Hebrews.

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[tetelestai]

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Read the next verse steko:

(Acts 1:8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

AFTER they received the Holy Spirit, they all were in agreement that it was the last days, the ends of the world, that the time was near, that it was the culmination of the ages, etc.

Nor does Acts 1:8 void Matt 24:34 or Luke 19:43-44

Everything played out EXACTLY how Jesus said it would.

Remember a few months ago when you said the that the Romans surrounding Jerusalem in 70AD followed by the Christian Jews fleeing to the mountains was indeed fulfilled in 70AD?

But then you changed your mind because of Matt 24:15?

 

[steko]

Read the next verse steko:

(Acts 1:8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Which is the same as saying, "But in the mean time, before the Messianic Kingdom is restored to Israel....."

AFTER they received the Holy Spirit, they all were in agreement that it was the last days, the ends of the world, that the time was near, that it was the culmination of the ages, etc.

It was, but kingdom prophecy did not continue to unfold because Israel as a whole rejected the message.

Nor does Acts 1:8 void Matt 24:34 or Luke 19:43-44

Of course it doesn't.

Everything played out EXACTLY how Jesus said it would.

Some did, some didn't, but all will.

Remember a few months ago when you said the that the Romans surrounding Jerusalem in 70AD followed by the Christian Jews fleeing to the mountains was indeed fulfilled in 70AD?

Yep.

But then you changed your mind because of Matt 24:15?

No, you assumed that I changed my mind.

How many events concerning an abomination of desolation are mentioned in prophecy?

I have never claimed to have all the answers, and I haven't found anyone who can work all the ins and outs of Scripture and reconcile seeming contradictions seamlessly, but I'll say one thing for sure, that the literal dispensational interpretation of Scripture by far comes the closest to a sensible easily intreated understanding versus the allegorical preterist ammillennial replacement nonsense.

I could 'will' myself to say, "Okay, I'll concede and accept your interpretation of all this", but in doing so it would go against all that I know and feel and understand, and in my estimation would be to go against the truth of Scripture.

Nowhere in yours and my history of dialogue have you ever convinced me to understand these things any other way than I do, and I guess someone would have to hit me over the head with a club and render me senseless in order for that to happen.

 

[tetelestai]

Which is the same as saying, "But in the mean time, before the Messianic Kingdom is restored to Israel....."

They wouldn't understand it until they received the Holy Spirit.

It was, but kingdom prophecy did not continue to unfold because Israel as a whole rejected the message.

When was the Revelation written?

When was the book of Hebrews written?

If, as you claim "kingdom prophecy" stopped, then why was the Revelation given to John many years later?

 

[steko]

They wouldn't understand it until they received the Holy Spirit.



When was the Revelation written?

When was the book of Hebrews written?

If, as you claim "kingdom prophecy" stopped, then why was the Revelation given to John many years later?

Kingdom 'prophecy' didn't stop but the unfoldment of Kingdom prophecy did. It will resume later.

 

[tetelestai]

How many events concerning an abomination of desolation are mentioned in prophecy?

2 times in Daniel.

The first one happened before Jesus was born.

The second one happened in 70AD.

 

[tetelestai]

Kingdom 'prophecy' didn't stop but the unfoldment of Kingdom prophecy did.

What the heck does that even mean?

 

[tetelestai]

but I'll say one thing for sure, that the literal dispensational interpretation of Scripture by far comes the closest to a sensible easily intreated understanding versus the allegorical preterist ammillennial replacement nonsense.

How is my interpretation of Matt 24:34 "allegorical"?

I'm interpreting it as literal as possible.

Same thing for Matt 16:28. Same thing for Luke 19:44.

You claim to take a literal approach, but when it comes to "the culmination of the ages", "these last days", "the end is near", etc, you are the furthest thing from a literal approach.

 

[steko]

What the heck does that even mean?

I've been at a 50 year HS reunion for three days.
I'm tired and can hardly see.

Maybe pick this up later.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Which is the same as saying, "But in the mean time, before the Messianic Kingdom is restored to Israel....."



It was, but kingdom prophecy did not continue to unfold because Israel as a whole rejected the message.



Of course it doesn't.



Some did, some didn't, but all will.



Yep.



No, you assumed that I changed my mind.

How many events concerning an abomination of desolation are mentioned in prophecy?

I have never claimed to have all the answers, and I haven't found anyone who can work all the ins and outs of Scripture and reconcile seeming contradictions seamlessly, but I'll say one thing for sure, that the literal dispensational interpretation of Scripture by far comes the closest to a sensible easily intreated understanding versus the allegorical preterist ammillennial replacement nonsense.

I could 'will' myself to say, "Okay, I'll concede and accept your interpretation of all this", but in doing so it would go against all that I know and feel and understand, and in my estimation would be to go against the truth of Scripture.

Nowhere in yours and my history of dialogue have you ever convinced me to understand these things any other way than I do, and I guess someone would have to hit me over the head with a club and render me senseless in order for that to happen.

Dear steko,

I will not become entrenched in this discrepancy, but I can say that none of us really know some of the things that are still of God to know, and for us not to know until the day Jesus returns. Then we will know the mystery of God that shall be finished {See Rev. 10:7 KJV}. That's all I will say for now. It's best!!

God Be With You Wholeheartedly,

Michael

 

[tetelestai]

I've been at a 50 year HS reunion for three days.
I'm tired and can hardly see.

Congratulations !!!

I just went to a "multi class reunion" last week. It was a lot of fun. I graduated 34 years ago.

Maybe pick this up later.

Of course.

You're my favorite Dispy.