God's Truth
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The Father is Spirit and is invisible. Jesus is the Father with a body and the Spirit inside him. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and the Son.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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The Father is Spirit and is invisible. Jesus is the Father with a body and the Spirit inside him. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and the Son.
God's Truth
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You are too earthy and don't understand what is spiritual.
God's Truth
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God came as a Man. The scriptures explain the truth.
God's Truth
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Your weak god can't preserve his words.
God's Truth
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Show where I have complained about someone lying about what I say.
God's Truth
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I believe in the three, just not your version of it.
keypurr
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GT you have no idea what I have been posting.
The logos is the express image of the Father, he is said to be the Son that God created all with. This son is a spirit, not a man. You fail to see that the express image of a spirit would be a spirit. In Hebrews 10 your told that a body was prepared for this spirit son. You are unable to see that Jesus is the body God prepared to hold this god like spirit.
Your sure that you are right so you will never learn truth, no matter what any one tells you you fail to open the door to your mind and see the content of the words as they are recorded in scrIpture.
I admire your support for your faith and I do not question your intent, but to be honest, you have no idea who God really is. But most others are in your same boat.
There is only one true God, the Father. John 17:3.
Why do most folks just ignore what is in that verse?
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keypurr
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John 8:24
keypurr
Well-known member
Read it all my friend.
Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Joh 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
Joh 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
Joh 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
The logos spoke and acted through the body prepared for him.
Jesus is not from above, the logos is.
Jesus did not exist until he was born to Mary.
Jesus became the Christ at his anointing when the logos was sent to dwell in him.
Think my friend, stop letting tradition run your thoughts.
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No friend, you do.
Rosenritter
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I don't see a Trinity in that passage. Remember your Trinity definition and look for yourself. Where is "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?" Here, with additional context just for clarity, and I'll add some coloring too:
2 Corinthians 13:11-14 KJV
(11) Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
(12) Greet one another with an holy kiss.
(13) All the saints salute you.
(14) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. The second epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.
Where's the blue?
If we are interpreting this passage with the assumption of "Trinity" then we know that "God" is not the same as the person of "Father" when listed in the context of Son and Holy Spirit. Trinity doctrine demands that one be specific and not confuse the persons, and insists that "God" is three persons. In Trinity context, that passage gives one person, the Trinity of three persons, and one person again. One of the persons was not named.
But if I read that passage with my understanding that that the risen Jesus is both Lord and God, then the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God are synonyms, two different ways of saying the same thing. And there is no conflict with the communion of the Holy Ghost, as it's just another way of referring to the same God, that same God of love and peace.
So no, I don't see Paul speaking like a Trinitarian in that passage.
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Rosenritter
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Thus I understand the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost as One. The criticism I receive is because I hold that passage in the highest regard and interpret it most literally. I John 5:7 is one of the strongest reasons why I do not consider myself Trinitarian.
But rather than defining a Trinity, it has the opposite effect. We already know that we have One God, and rather than tell us that our One God is three, it tells us that these three are One. Had it said that "Our One is Three" then that would agree with Trinitarianism.
1 John 2:23 KJV
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
I acknowledge the Son of God as God, in the highest sense as our Creator, so according to John you cannot say that I am without the Father. And likewise in his epistles, John never says anything along the lines of "Whosoever denieth the Trinity, the same hath not the Father" or the like.
If I am mistaken as to the metaphysics of God, I am sure that I will be able to understand when I see Him face to face (or faces, if the Trinity doctrine was on target). In the meantime, I see no circumstance that would affect the surety of my Savior and Salvation or any possible harm to others in simply believing that our God is really One, just like 1 John 5:7 tells us.
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Rosenritter
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That's hardly ridiculous. You in your mortal shell communicates with yourself in various ways, even though you are on a very small scale:
1) Your brain sends nerve impulses to your arm
2) Your glands send hormones and other signals that communicate with your whole body
3) You think thoughts in your own head and answer your own questions
4) The two hemispheres of your brain talk back and forth to each other (this is a proven fact)
5) You can solve a problem better by talking aloud to yourself
6) Some of us communicate across time and distance to ourselves, such as writing notes, setting alarm clocks, sending emails and calendar entries as reminders, or writing a diary to be read later
... and you're just a simple HUMAN. Where were you when the heavens and the earth were created? God operates on a more complex scale. If God was manifest in the flesh (as it tells us he was) and if the Creator of all things walked among us in this world (as it tells us he did) and if our Mighty God and Everlasting Father was born as a child (which it tells us he was) while still remaining in charge of the universe from heaven above...
... then I think it's up to God how he chooses to communicate with himself while existing both in heaven as the Almighty and on earth in mortal flesh at the same time.
KingdomRose, when you figure out how to create a single living cell, then maybe, just maybe, you can critique God one how he is allowed to interact with himself while manifest in the flesh.
Rosenritter
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Then perhaps you can explain why the Greek grammar is broken without the full text of verse 7, and why the Greek grammar only works with the full text of verse 7? There's only two extant readings of the passage, one without (broken grammar) and one with (correct grammar.) We have grammar in our language for a reason, it works like a checksum to ensure that we heard the sentence in its entirety.
I hope you ... that? (... example of broken grammar that shows that a word was missed.)
Rosenritter
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glorydaz
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Paul names Him at the beginning of the letter, and as you read through, you are to recognize that is who he is referring to. In fact, this isn't the only letter in which Paul uses the term "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe it would be somewhat redundant to have to use it every time, wouldn't you think?
2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2 Corinthians 11:31The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Hey QUACK, your "facts" are no more than your opinion and others who have tried to adulterate the written word. Genius YOU AIN"T. Corrupt you are.