The Trinity

[God's Truth]

Oh, wear your 'I'm being attacked' badge with honor, gt.

I do not attack you personally, gt.

YOUR doctrine that's another story.

BTW: I, lifeisgood, did not involve popsthebuilder. I told popsthebuilder to not butt into the conversation. He even complained that I asked him not to butt into the conversation. That he was going to butt in anyway, which he did.

This is a public forum and anyone can join in any of the conversations; and, you do so mention me in your posts to him.

 

[God's Truth]

When Jesus is scourged, brutally beaten, mocked, and murdered at the hands of wicked men, and in response to this he says, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" this illustrates the extent that He is willing to forgive sin against Himself.

It's not that Him being murdered saves us, but that he forgave the murder that truly tells us that even we can be saved.

Those who had him killed were not forgiven unless they repent and forgive others.

Just because Jesus asked the Father to forgive them does not mean they were forgiven.

Jesus was showing the saved what they have to do to have a right heart with God.

 

[God's Truth]

When Jesus speaks in Matthew 17:3, he says that the purpose of the statement is to prove the resurrection of the dead. Thus his statement of "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" must refer to the resurrection, and cannot possibly mean that the dead are conscious in the meantime.

For if the dead were alive in any sense of the word before the resurrection or without needing a resurrection, then far from his statement proving the resurrection, it would disprove any necessity of that resurrection.

Our spirits live on after the death of our bodies. After Jesus died on the cross he even went to prison/hell and preached to the spirits, even those who died a long time ago in the times of Noah.

 

[God's Truth]

Bright Raven, if we are to assume that the scripture and prophets are accurate and correct when they say that the dead know nothing, that they are at rest, both the righteous and wicked, that they sleep, without knowledge that they are dead...

If we assume that is correct...

Then when a saint of Christ dies, what happens in their next conscious instant?

Soul sleep believers try to use scripture from Ecclesiastes to support their false beliefs that our spirits do not live on after the death of our bodies, but the part of Ecclesiastes they use is about a message of if there were no God. Ecclesiastes also says the dead have no more reward (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Do you believe that the dead have no more reward? The Old Testament believers believed in a resurrection (Job 19:25-27; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; and others), so why would Solomon say the dead have no more reward if not to imagine a life without God.

Soul sleepers also use a few scriptures in Psalms to try to say the spirits of humans die with the body. There is no scripture in Psalms that says that. One must remember too that the Old Testament people did not yet have the entire gospel. Ecclesiastes is about earthly man. Read what Solomon says in Ecclesiastes in 3:18-21 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

Did you read how Solomon says, “Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Solomon says, “Who knows…” Surely, the New Testament teaches us about what is spiritual and about what happens to us spiritually.
Soul sleep believers also teach that Abraham saw Jesus’ day as a prophecy only. See John 8:56 where Jesus tells us Abraham waited to see Jesus’ day, Abraham saw it and was glad. Abraham died, yet was alive in the spirit. To believe Abraham was no longer alive and only saw Jesus’ day as a prophecy goes against the message of the passage how Jesus is explaining that all are alive to God. Moreover, if Abraham only saw Jesus’ day in a prophecy hundreds of years earlier, then what did Jesus mean by saying Abraham rejoiced at the “thought” of seeing his day; he “saw it” and was glad. Having the “thought” of seeing his day signifies he had to wait to see it, if it were only a vision in a prophecy that he saw, what would there be to wait to see? It is not as if he would wait to see a vision in a prophecy.

 

[Truster]

You seriously need to lighten up.

You seriously need to back off or you'll incur the prayers of the saints....oops too late

 

[popsthebuilder]

If it fits, wear it proudly.



So, you agree with gt, that you need to help Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary by helping Him with your obedience, your works, etc., etc., etc. as if Jesus needs you to save you.



You should follow your own admonition.

I think the teachings of the Christ are pertinent to salvation, not the Trinity doctrine.

If you think heeding the words of the Master are wrong; well then that is your business. Calling heeding the words of the Christ of GOD wrong or the work of Satan is when it becomes my business.

You wrongly accuse based on a partial understanding.

We all have but a partial understanding, but some of us look to help one another grow in faith in Christ and GOD, and because we do believe the words and teachings and example of the Christ, we are bound to try to follow His teachings, and not yours, regardless of the filth and garbage that spews forth from your envious lips.



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[popsthebuilder]

So, He no longer bears the scars of His crucifixion?



What?



Who said you were?



What are you saying?

You will die. As will I.

That is what i am saying.

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[popsthebuilder]

If there's any confusion, revert to the greek.

The word used literally means "today."

And a lifetime is a blink and a day is a thousand years.



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[popsthebuilder]

It's not a contradictory term. If something is destroyed temporarily, it means it will be fixed, restored, or recreated again. If something is destroyed eternally, it means it will never be fixed, restored, or recreated again. It means the destruction is a real, permanent, eternal thing.

Temporary destruction is a contradiction.

If a thing is destroyed it cannot be fixed.

It isn't broken; it is destroyed.



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[lifeisgood]

This is a public forum and anyone can join in any of the conversations; and, you do so mention me in your posts to him.

Never stopped anyone from joining any of the conversations. Popsthebuilder said he did not want to jump into the conversation but HE did it anyway all with HIS own two little hands and then HE and HE alone complained that WE HAD MADE HIM join the conversation. Go figure.

And obviously, if someone barges into a conversation in the middle of it and then mentions your name, no other alternative I have but to mention the name of the person that is being mentioned, in this case you, gt.

 

[lifeisgood]

I think the teachings of the Christ are pertinent to salvation, not the Trinity doctrine.

There is only one pertinent way of salvation: Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary. The Trinity/Triunity of God has demanded that that be so. You have a problem with that go take it up with God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

If you think heeding the words of the Master are wrong; well then that is your business. Calling heeding the words of the Christ of GOD wrong or the work of Satan is when it becomes my business.

You, like gt, expect others to believe you OBEY ALL of Jesus' commandments.
Good, sell everything you have, give it to the poor, start preaching the Gospel in Jerusalem, continue on to the whole world.
Then come back and tell me all about YOUR obedience to the Master's commandments.

You wrongly accuse based on a partial understanding.

Look who is talking about partial understanding. Here is YOUR partial understanding, YOU, want me to look away from Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary and follow you.

We all have but a partial understanding, but some of us look to help one another grow in faith in Christ and GOD, and because we do believe the words and teachings and example of the Christ, we are bound to try to follow His teachings, and not yours, regardless of the filth and garbage that spews forth from your envious lips.

You ain't helping by pulling people from Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary and follow you and your wonderful perfect obedience to the Master.

Sold everything you have yet?
Did you start your ministry in Jerusalem?
How about the cities/counties/villages/suburbs?
Do you bring stuff with you (food, clothes, etc.)? Yes? You should check your faithfulness to obeying ALL HIS commandments.


Envious lips? I must be doing something right.

 

[lifeisgood]

You will die. As will I.

That is what i am saying.

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So? What's the beef?

 

[lifeisgood]

This is excellent advice and too bad only those wanting to be wise, and only the wise will follow it.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of fools seems right to them, but the wise listen to advice.

Oh, wise one, thank you for your advice.

 

[Bright Raven]

How do you know?

Because He rose in the same body in which He died.

 

[Rosenritter]

You seriously need to back off or you'll incur the prayers of the saints....oops too late

I think that qualifies as lightening up

 

[Truster]

I think that qualifies as lightening up

I take my prayer obligation at least as seriously as doctrine.

 

[Rosenritter]

Temporary destruction is a contradiction.

If a thing is destroyed it cannot be fixed.

It isn't broken; it is destroyed.

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You're thinking like a Greek, as if God cannot restore the body that is destroyed. Temporary destruction is destruction that can be repaired. That's why we preach the resurrection.

Job 19:25-27 KJV
(25) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
(26) And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
(27) Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

If we can rebuild, repair, or heal that which was destroyed, the destruction is temporary. If God will restore that which is destroyed, the destruction is temporary.

If God destroys something and it shall never be rebuilt, repaired, healed, or restored, then the destruction is eternal. Eternal destruction is permanent destruction

 

[God's Truth]

Because He rose in the same body in which He died.

He ascended into heaven before the Father and was given a Spiritual body, the same one he had before coming to earth.

Revelation 1:14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.

 

[Veritas veritate]

A high priest would stop becoming high priest upon his death.

Since, as the scripture mentions, Melchizedek had no record of his death he remains high priest as no note of his death was ever recorded. Jesus is high priest only in the sense that he remains high priest forever.

They cannot be the same person since the scriptures makes clear that Jesus was another high priest, if Jesus was the same high priest as Melchizedek then the Bible writer would NOT have called him another high priest like Melchizedek but rather the same high priest.

(Hebrews 7:1-3) "..For this Mel·chizʹe·dek, king of Saʹlem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name is translated “King of Righteousness,” and then also king of Saʹlem, that is, “King of Peace.” 3 In being fatherless, motherless, without genealogy, having neither a beginning of days nor an end of life, but being made like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.. If, then, perfection was attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for it was a feature of the Law that was given to the people), what further need would there be for another priest to arise who is said to be in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek and not in the manner of Aaron?..".

Christ was another high priest like Melchizedek, thus, he was not Melchizedek.

I was not claiming that they are the same person, I was simply pointing out the logical flaw in saying that they are both High Priests for all time.

 

[God's Truth]

Never stopped anyone from joining any of the conversations. Popsthebuilder said he did not want to jump into the conversation but HE did it anyway all with HIS own two little hands and then HE and HE alone complained that WE HAD MADE HIM join the conversation. Go figure.

And obviously, if someone barges into a conversation in the middle to it and then mentions your name, no other alternative I have but to mention the name of the person that is being mentioned, in this case you, gt.

You keep mentioning me and putting down popsthebuilder for our having the same beliefs.
How about stop being so critical and enjoy debating?