The Trinity

The Trinity

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God's Truth

God's Truth

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JudgeRightly said:
Abraham is the father of many peoples, but more specifically, he's the father of two promises, one of faith, and one of works. I am of the seed of Abraham, not of works, through the flesh, as is represented in Genesis 17, but of faith, through the spirit, as represented in Genesis 15.
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What don't you get about cut off people bound over to the same place as the Gentiles? The Jews who rejected Jesus were cut off and bound over to the same place as disobedient Gentiles; and, faithful obedient Gentiles were grafted in with faithful and obedient Jews.
 
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God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
marhig said:
Hiya, what do you see as the work and the finished work of Jesus Christ? Thanks

Many trees that are rotten, bare the same fruit as the first rotten tree, i.e. "you can go against God, and you shall not surely die." GT certainly doesn't believe in going against God but living by his will. And although I don't agree with everything GT says, if she is living by the will of God in her heart and life, then Jesus said that those who do so are they that enter into the kingdom of heaven. So be careful who you judge, God gives those who belong to him understanding gradually, progressive revelation, and we are given what we need, when we need it, in God's time, and not before, and be careful of how you judge as in who is an insider and who is an outsider, some you see as insiders could have a wrong heart before God. Only God knows who is truly his, and I've heard some here say far worse things than GT. To believe that we are to obey God isn't rotten fruit, it's the truth!

From the smallest flower to the greatest tree, all who belong in the garden, glorify the creator and show his beauty. Some more than others. Some are still young and growing some are at their full bloom and all are kept alive by breath, water and light.

But some look beautiful and are weeds, and many try to kill the flowers, and those who are weeds try to put to death the truth, by going against the will of God who love this world before him, and live by the will of the flesh and encourage others to do the same.
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Thank you, Marhig! Thank you for defending someone who is attacked for speaking obedience to Christ.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
popsthebuilder said:
It says in scripture that He gave up the Ghost, and the veil of the temple was wrent in twain which I understand to mean torn in two. So do I think the physical body of Jesus died? Yes. Do I think the Spirit that dwelled in Him and utterly filled Him died? No.

What i was going on about is that the second coming of Christ could too be seen as the resurrection of Christ.




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I don't understand when you say, "What i was going on about is that the second coming of Christ could too be seen as the resurrection of Christ."

However, when Jesus comes again, it will be at the physical resurrection of the dead.

The spirit does not die, and Jesus' Spirit did not die on the cross, for that is when he went to hell/prison, to preach the gospel there.

Jesus filled the whole universe.

He went to hell/prison, to those who died a long time ago, and then he ascended to heaven, to those who will be born.

Jesus died physically but lived Spiritually.

He lived Spiritually and raised himself, as only God could.

If anyone wants scripture references, just ask.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
popsthebuilder said:
That user account is an inanimate thing, not capable of any level of intellect. Each account refers to, and is controlled by a person. You shouldn't call them dumb. It isn't so odd how many deny even the simplest of commands, or their validity. It seems to generally be those same ones that think Jesus the Christ came and taught and performed miracles and sacrificed himself so they could continue in knowing sin as if He did nothing for them.

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I just love how you word things.

So glad to read your posts.
 
V

Veritas veritate

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marhig said:
Hiya, what do you see as the work and the finished work of Jesus Christ? Thanks
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The finished work of Christ is the reconciliation of all men to God. His death, burial, and resurrection proved that he was the Son of God and the Savior of all men, especially those who believe. This means that he is the Savior of every lost person as well, it is just that the lost do not acknowledge him as such. It is much like the presidency of Donald Trump after the election. Donald Trump is the president of all Americans, especially those who voted for him. Yet, you still have those who will say, "he is not my president." Even so, the lost are many who are lost that say, "Jesus? He is not my Savior." Just because there are those who will deny that Jesus is the Savior of all men does not make him any less the Savior of all men.

marhig said:
Many trees that are rotten, bare the same fruit as the first rotten tree, i.e. "you can go against God, and you shall not surely die." GT certainly doesn't believe in going against God but living by his will. And although I don't agree with everything GT says, if she is living by the will of God in her heart and life, then Jesus said that those who do so are they that enter into the kingdom of heaven.
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The Road to loss is wide and paved with good works and vain obedience. The truth remains that obedience is not required to obtain salvation because He is the Savior of all men already. The truth remains that obedience is not required to retain salvation because the finished work of Jesus Christ is what sustains our salvation. The truth remains that all who are truly saved will obey and produce good works, but that salvation is not predicated upon said obedience.

marhig said:
So be careful who you judge, God gives those who belong to him understanding gradually, progressive revelation, and we are given what we need, when we need it, in God's time, and not before, and be careful of how you judge as in who is an insider and who is an outsider, some you see as insiders could have a wrong heart before God. Only God knows who is truly his, and I've heard some here say far worse things than GT.
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I will never be careful about who I judge; but, I am extremely careful about how I judge.

marhig said:
To believe that we are to obey God isn't rotten fruit, it's the truth!
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To believe that we are to obey God isn't fruit either way. I do not have a problem with the truth of obeying God: however, I do have a problem with those who claim that obedience is the source of salvation. Jesus alone is the source of salvation, this is why he is the Savior to begin with. If our obedience secures our salvation then we are our own saviors, and to claim such is to claim equality with Jesus Christ.


marhig said:
From the smallest flower to the greatest tree, all who belong in the garden, glorify the creator and show his beauty. Some more than others. Some are still young and growing some are at their full bloom and all are kept alive by breath, water and light.

But some look beautiful and are weeds, and many try to kill the flowers, and those who are weeds try to put to death the truth, by going against the will of God who love this world before him, and live by the will of the flesh and encourage others to do the same.
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This is why it is so important to speak out of truth in love, wisdom, and kindness. Frankly, I have not seen many here on TOL who do as such.
 
V

Veritas veritate

New member
God's Truth said:
Thank you, Marhig! Thank you for defending someone who is attacked for speaking obedience to Christ.
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Please do not misunderstand me, I am not attacking you for speaking obedience to Christ, for obedience is how we love God with all of our heart, body, mind, and strength. Moreover, it is our reasonable service because he saved us. Obedience to Christ was and never will be the issue. What I am trying to point out to you is that our obedience is not the source of our faith and salvation. Our obedience is not what sustains our spiritual life in that salvation: it is Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone who is the source of both our salvation and life.
 
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Veritas veritate

New member
Rosenritter said:
If we are talking philosophically, I see no reason why there could not be two or three or five or fifty-nine beings that were eternal, always was, always will be, without creating each other. How, you ask? I can't even explain how One God has always been there and always will be, so the explanation of each runs into the same problem of our limited understanding.

I don't think that "only One" is an innate exclusion within the meaning of the word eternal. I believe there is one eternal God, who always was and always will be, but not because "one" is required by the word. Rather, there's One God because that's just the way it is.
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If you consider the word "eternal" to only mean always was and always will be, then yes, there could be as many eternal beings as you want. However, and this is something that I seem to have forgotten to mention, the word "eternal" in its original Hebrew form (which is considered the most holy name of God) means self existent, or eternal one: well, that is the closest modern English translation anyway. The point being, "only one" is most certainly an innate exclusion of the word "eternal."

Let me try a slightly different approach to this. I do not think that any true believer would deny the sovereignty of God. His sovereignty is also included in the Hebrew name I alluded to above. There can only be one being that is truly sovereign, because, by definition only one being can be all-powerful. Two equally powerful beings could never be truly sovereign because "sovereign" necessitates the subjection of all other beings under its rule. If there is any other being that is equal to and separate from God, God would not be sovereign.

Does that clarify what I am saying?


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God's Truth

God's Truth

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Veritas veritate said:
Please do not misunderstand me, I am not attacking you for speaking obedience to Christ, for obedience is how we love God with all of our heart, body, mind, and strength. Moreover, it is our reasonable service because he saved us. Obedience to Christ was and never will be the issue. What I am trying to point out to you is that our obedience is not the source of our faith and salvation. Our obedience is not what sustains our spiritual life in that salvation: it is Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone who is the source of both our salvation and life.
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You have to eat Jesus' flesh to have eternal life.

Tell me how you think you can have life without obeying God's Word.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Bright Raven said:
Just curious. Do you believe in the Modalist point of view too?
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Too? As in that is what someone else believes or.....? I don't know what that is.... Googling....is this what you mean?
mod·al·ism

ˈmodlˌizəm/

noun

1.

THEOLOGY

the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting persons in the divine nature.

I think GOD is Spirit so the word persons doesn't work for me.

Other than that, I believe the three divisions of GOD within the trinity doctrine are best understood as three aspects used to describe how we as man perceive GOD.


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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Veritas veritate said:
If you consider the word "eternal" to only mean always was and always will be, then yes, there could be as many eternal beings as you want. However, and this is something that I seem to have forgotten to mention, the word "eternal" in its original Hebrew form (which is considered the most holy name of God) means self existent, or eternal one: well, that is the closest modern English translation anyway. The point being, "only one" is most certainly an innate exclusion of the word "eternal."

Let me try a slightly different approach to this. I do not think that any true believer would deny the sovereignty of God. His sovereignty is also included in the Hebrew name I alluded to above. There can only be one being that is truly sovereign, because, by definition only one being can be all-powerful. Two equally powerful beings could never be truly sovereign because "sovereign" necessitates the subjection of all other beings under its rule. If there is any other being that is equal to and separate from God, God would not be sovereign.

Does that clarify what I am saying?


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I think it may clarify. If you are saying that Ultimate Sovereignty is exclusive, then I have no objection.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
popsthebuilder said:
Too? As in that is what someone else believes or.....? I don't know what that is.... Googling....is this what you mean?
mod·al·ism

ˈmodlˌizəm/

noun

1.

THEOLOGY

the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting persons in the divine nature.

I think GOD is Spirit so the word persons doesn't work for me.

Other than that, I believe the three divisions of GOD within the trinity doctrine are best understood as three aspects used to describe how we as man perceive GOD.


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The definition you gave of Modalism says that it is a subset of Trinitarianism, because it assumes "persons of the Trinity" as part of its definition. So by that measure.all Modalists are Trinitarian, but not all Trinitarians are Modalist.
 
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